Another Zelkova, Shohin in the making

[constantstaticx3]

Ok, I bought the tree at the Philadelphia Flower Show 2 years ago from Meehan's Miniatures. The tree was a mess but I could see potential in the trunk line so I took it. I wish I had a pic from when I first bought it but I don't. Heres the first pic.
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This pic is actually its first winter in my possession. The branch that is tied down is actually a first year branch. The branch that was there before had died and I was devastated because it was in the perfect position but thankfully this one grew back in its place quite rapidly.
Heres another of that same year.
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Next.
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This is the tree early that spring.

Here it is a little later in the year and it's filled out and some sacrifice branches began to grow at the base that I left until this winter.
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Then here is a pic now after some trimming and the sacrifice branches were removed.
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Heres a pic of the nebari. Theres only one strong root so far, I will try to correct that with a form of ground layering this year. If I can accomplish that, I believe this tree will look a lot better.
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I am happy with the shape of the tree overall, I just need to ramify the branches a lot.

Hope you like it :
Tom

[Gnome]

Tom,

Heres a pic of the nebari. Theres only one strong root so far, I will try to correct that with a form of ground layering this year. If I can accomplish that, I believe this tree will look a lot better.

Are you sure it is necessary to layer this tree? I agree that the high root is out of place but it looks as though there are some roots below the surface of the soil. If this is correct you may simply be able to remove the strong root and gradually improve the existing ones. Just a thought.

I am almost positive I will "ground layering" my Zelkova broom this year so we may be able to compare notes. Thanks for posting the tree.

Norm

[constantstaticx3]

Well my idea is to add on to that one root by scarring the trunk in specific locations then covering it with root hormone and some spagnum moss. This should encourage new roots to grow in the place of the scars. I wasn't sure what this was called so I just called it ground layering.

As for removing the root I'm not sure. I don't think there are any other roots to work with although I do think I need to do a repot to work on the roots so when I do I'll take a look and see if thats a possibility.

Tom

[constantstaticx3]

Ok, new thought, I'm chopping this tree way back. I was thinking about cutting it back but decided against it even though I knew in my heart I had to.

I plan on going to college for ornamental horticulture and I want to do something with bonsai so this just taught me a big lesson and I'm going to follow it from now on.

Now my only question is, should I do this now or should I wait for spring? I should know this answer as well but though I'd ask to get your opinion.

Tom

Edit: If I follow this rule with my boxwood I will have to cut it back as well. I don't think I will do that but I am going to do some more drastic pruning.

Edit 2: Or I may just let it grow unrestricted for a while to thicken the trunk. A new light has been shone to me and a lot of thoughts are going through my head.

[Gnome]

Tom,

The first year I chopped my Zelkova boom I was overly anxious and did it late Feb-early March. We had a warm snap that year and I was getting itchy to get to work. I think I stumbled upon something because of my eagerness. For the broom thing to work you need to first get a callous to form. I suspect that the early chop allowed sufficient time to develop the callous before the weather truly warmed up. I don't think that such an early chop is necessary unless you are shooting for a broom as well. If you are looking buds from the trunk you can wait until spring is closer. I doubt that it would hurt anything but I don't see the advantage either.

Norm

[constantstaticx3]

Gnome,

Ok so my plan now is to cut it back and do some root work in early spring before the buds pop.

I also would like to know your opinion. Do you follow the 1:6 ratio with all your trees? Have you read Brent's interview?

Tom

[Gnome]

Tom,

As long as you're in a mood to be inspired, consider collecting some trees this spring. Working with nursery stock is a good way to learn the basic skills required to keep bonsai alive from year to year but there are other avenues to consider.

I realize that a collecting trip is not in the cards for you now but keep an eye out in your neighborhood this spring for old landscape material, you may get lucky. Older material often has an entirely different feel than what can be obtained at a nursery. With such materials you can begin honing a different set of skills that will serve you well in the future.

Norm

Edit: I'm having a hard time keeping up with your posts tonight. No I have not read Brent's interview yet it just went up yesterday and I missed until you pointed it out, thanks. My trees are still in development as well. The Chinese Elm will fall well into the 6:1 ratio. I also have some collected material that fits that template. The broom may be a little outside of that range but remember that rule is not hard and fast consider it a guideline.

[constantstaticx3]

As far as collecting trees, I actually have a nice sized bald cypress growing in my pond. It is already in a fairly small pot for its size which is around ten feet. The trunk is around 4 or 5 inches across at the water level and more I'm sure at the base. I plan on letting it go for a couple more years before pulling it out and creating, what will then be a great basis for a bonsai.

I forget where I saw this, maybe in the inspiration thread, but there was a site where old shrubs that were on the curb to be thrown away were used to create amazing bonsai. Ever since I saw that site I have looked at all trees and shrubs differently.

The main thing I noticed from reading Brent's interview, is how "beginner" like I was thinking in certain areas or for certain trees. His interview has set me straight now.

I have always looked at trees in forests and yards and thought about how they could be turned into bonsai. My only problem is that I cant collect them and try it. I will no longer go to a nursery and rule out the expensive trees. Normally I will spend my money on a lot of small trees with lots of work ahead of them but now I will stop doing that as much and focus on the more expensive ones and only buy one or two that have more potential.

I guess I've just been too narrow minded in my ways and thought I knew what I was doing but Brent's interview was like a slap in the face in a way and has woken me up.


Tom

[constantstaticx3]

I just repotted and chopped this one back. The roots were down much deeper than the original top root in the previous pics. The new nebari doesn't look fantastic but I've buried it in the soil to let it develop.

I am hoping a new leader will grow from the chop site and I will work from there. It will be left alone all year to grow new branches. Next winter I will begin to style it in the slanting style.
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Tom

EDIT: I just looked at the pic again and the reverse taper you see isn't nearly that bad. By simply changing the planting angle when its finished it will not be seen at all.

[Gnome]

Tom,

Is this one still headed for the informal upright style? If so you can probably use one of the existing branches as your new leader. Just wire it more vertically and later after it is well established carve the stub back so it will heal over.

If you really want a shoot from the actual chop site make sure you seal it so it does not dry out. I can't tell if you have already. Also, I always clean up the chop site with an X-acto or utility knife and seal immediately.

Norm

P.S. Check your private messages.

[constantstaticx3]

Gnome, yes I did seal the chop site but I did not clean it up with an exacto knife so I'll do that. For right now I want to see what happens with the chop site. My best option is still the slanted style because of the way the nebari is slanted itself. Later on I can always chop back to those lower branches but I'll see what happens. They are also quite stiff and will be tough to wire up.

Tom

[constantstaticx3]

Well I received my copy of Shohin Bonsai yesterday and man am I inspired. I've decided that next year I will be cutting this one back to the new buds that have appeared below the main branches. I would have done it this year but I wanted to leave branches and not be too drastic. I think the new nebari will be great and the aged lower bark will be fantastic when I bring this one down to size.

A couple pics of the new growth.
[url=https://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01715yd7.jpg][img]https://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9862/dsc01715yd7.th.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01716vz5.jpg][img]https://img205.imageshack.us/img205/442/dsc01716vz5.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Tom

[Gnome]

Tom,

Well I received my copy of Shohin Bonsai yesterday and man am I inspired.

I take it you are pleased with the book. I have never seen that one. Who is the author?

Are you intending to make an informal upright from it now? If you chop it above the two handlebar buds the one on the right can become the new leader and the one on the left can become the first branch.

Norm

[constantstaticx3]

Yes so far I am pleased but I'm not even half way done. The author is Morten Albek. You may know him as a member of bonsaitalk. It's published by stone lantern and you can find it at there website, its worth the money for inspiration alone. So far, it is his pics that inspire me. I haven't gotten to the step by step creating a shohin part yet which should really give me some ideas.

Yes that will be a logical chopping spot and yes it will most likely be an informal upright to informal broom type tree. I'd do a virt but I have no program for it.

Tom

[constantstaticx3]

Well I jumped the gun today and decided to chop it now instead of waiting till next spring. It started as me trimming the top so sun could reach the bottom branches and ended in this. I loosely wired the new leader to give it room to thicken. I have no doubt this tree wont skip a beat. I've included a pic of the new nebari if you can see it. If all goes to plan, the final tree should be as tall or not much taller than the second leaf on the leader.

[url=https://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01810lt3.jpg][img]https://img157.imageshack.us/img157/3730/dsc01810lt3.th.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01811qq6.jpg][img]https://img157.imageshack.us/img157/9181/dsc01811qq6.th.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://img57.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01812wu0.jpg][img]https://img57.imageshack.us/img57/5372/dsc01812wu0.th.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://img57.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01813yz7.jpg][img]https://img57.imageshack.us/img57/5613/dsc01813yz7.th.jpg[/img][/url]

I hope you can see my vision. The branch on the left will be the first branch and I should probably wire it now while it is still thin.

Tom

[constantstaticx3]

Ok final work on this for this year then it will rest until spring. I guess I'm really testing the species and how hard you can work them.

I recently placed a guy wire on the left branch to bring it down more horizontal. I made a small notch under the branch at the trunk to facilitate the bend. In late winter I will cut this branch back and hope for buds close to the trunk that I can work with. All I really need is a small stub of this branch and it should be thick enough by the end of this growing season.

I also cleaned up the chop wound to make a more smooth transition.

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Why is it I always get ideas when its raining?

Tom