Chinese Elm 2

[constantstaticx3]

Ok, here it is...it isn't a great pic but you get the point.
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It has grown out nicely so far. The foliage is now starting to die off now that its fall. This will be my first year leaving it outside, although if it snows it will come in my garage.

Gnome, should I prune it back now or should I wait till before spring? I'm thinking I could prune the parts back that I need to ramify and then leave the parts that need too thicken.

I also need to decide what I'm going to do with the apex.

Tom

[Gnome]

Tom,

Glad to see that your tree is doing well. Did you follow the link I posted in my Elm thread? It is a little difficult to follow without the pictures but worth a second look especially if you only skimmed it the first time. After reading the article I have come to the conclusion that it is too soon to begin the ramification process, the primary branches need to thicken more.

If you do decide to prune portions of it now it may be better not to prune it back to the intended location now. If you leave it a little scraggly it for now you can fine tune it in the spring when you know if you experienced any die-back.

Norm

[constantstaticx3]

Well, I killed it. I tried letting it go dormant in the cold this year but it didn't seem to be working like I thought it would. I thought the leaves would turn yellow and fall off but this was not the case. While all my other trees had gone dormant, the leaves on this one turned brown and green. Well the idiot I am, I placed it in my garage with a few other trees and literally neglected them until this week. When I checked on them, this one was all shriveled up and obviously dead. I guess this one did not go dormant and still needed water?

All my other trees, including a cork bark elm, are fully dormant and doing fine.

I'll be buying another better one and the flower show in march to replace it.

Tom

[Gnome]

Tom,

Sorry to hear about the difficulty with this one. Apparently there is quite a bit of variability in Chinese Elms depending on where the stock originated. Being sub-tropical they have a tendency to try to keep growing even when temperate trees "know" it's time to go dormant. I guess they expect the winter to be short so they try to remain active. Mine maintained some green foliage until I recently defoliated it. I did this for disease control, I have a problem with black spot and the spores can over-winter on old leaves.

As you have discovered, even in winter you have to keep a eye on things and not everything will behave the same, just like summer. I check my things that are under shelter at least once a week this time of year. The stuff outside under mulch does not need me now so I just leave them alone.

I hope you have not thrown your tree out. There is enough bulk in the trunk that it may recover, you may have the opportunity to take the tree in a new direction. Have you tried the scratch test?

Norm

[constantstaticx3]

I hope you have not thrown your tree out. There is enough bulk in the trunk that it may recover, you may have the opportunity to take the tree in a new direction. Have you tried the scratch test?

Lol. Yes I have thrown it out. I should have taken a pic but the trunk had shriveled to half its size and the scratch test came out brown. It was pretty sad but it was so bad off I couldn't help but laugh .

I've accepted the fact that I killed it and I'm gonna move on. I plan on paying a little extra for a nicer tree at the Philadelphia Flower Show in March. I may send Meehans an email to request they bring some trees with bigger trunks. I saw on their website they have some nice ones. When I do get another tree, I'll continue using this thread to report its progress.

Tom

Edit: When I took it out of the pot, I could see how well the roots were doing in the new soil I can only imagine how nice the roots are on my other trees .

[constantstaticx3]

I came across this tree on the meehan's website. https://www.meehansminiatures.com/shop/index.php?action=item&id=748&prevaction=search&previd=&prevstart=12
I have asked them to bring this one and there more developed elms to the philadelphia flower show in march so I can really get a good look at them. I believe this one is worth the money and I would be happy to replace my old one with it. What do ya think .

Tom

[Gnome]

Tom,

Consider the 6:1 and the 3:1 rules. With a diameter of perhaps 1.5 inches that would put your finished hieght at about 9 inches. This trunk is very straight and lacks much taper, it would make a nice broom. The rule of thirds means 3 inches to the chop and 6 inches of branches/foliage. I thnk a broom can look good stretching the rules a bit perhaps 4 and 8 for a finished tree af 12 inches. Are you prepared to spend $50.00 on this and cut it back to 3 or 4 inches?

Another options with the straight trunk would be a formal upright of similar height. Otherwise a very low chop would be required to get some movement and taper low in the trunk. With this option you would probably want to plant it out in a growing bed to get established and chop it in 2009. It would then have to spend years in the ground with several more chops to get a trunk suitable for an informal upright.

Only you can decide if it is worth it to you, but consider your options before you buy. I got this stump on E-bay for considerably less, unfortunately I kept messing with it until I killed it.
[url=https://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=corkelmru0.jpg][img]https://img505.imageshack.us/img505/6104/corkelmru0.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url]https://www.hollowcreekbonsai.com/productCat25263.ctlg[/url]

Norm

[constantstaticx3]

Wow, I didn't see it that way. Well, I asked them to bring a variety of them so I'll see what they bring.

That was an awesome trunk. Was that a cork bark variety?

Tom

[Gnome]

Tom,

Wow, I didn't see it that way.

Since you seemed so inspired by Brent's recent comments I thought I would just point that out.

That was an awesome trunk. Was that a cork bark variety?

Yeah it was listed as a Cork Bark, very different than the smooth one in the "thread graft" thread. I was pleased with it, but alas it is no more.

Norm

[constantstaticx3]

Since you seemed so inspired by Brent's recent comments I thought I would just point that out.

Yea thanks. I believe I am blind in my search for a replacement. I new I would have to cut it back but didn't take the time to look at it in the long run.

I have a cork bark elm myself. It is very young with about a 1/3" trunk base at best but it is already showing the aged bark look at the base. I plan on making a broom style out of it. I know it will not be typical because of the bark but I kinda like that fact. Still lots of years of growth before I can start though.

Tom

[constantstaticx3]

I just received this tree that I ordered last week. It wasn't exactly what I was hoping for but I do believe it will be a fine tree in a couple years. I'm not sure what the nebari is like, I will find out next year when I change the soil to my own. There is some rot at the base of the trunk that I have carved out and sealed with cut paste. I will either let it heal over or incorporate it as deadwood. The latter is what I'm going for.

I have attached pics showing the whole tree, the rot and where I intend to chop it next spring. I hope to get lower bu breaks but if not, I will just bring upper branches down. The trunk is an inch thick and the final tree will be somewhere near 5 inches tall.
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Tom

[alisios]

Hey Tom - I like what you plan to do. The soil doesn't look so bad...

[Gnome]

Tom

Hey Tom - The soil doesn't look so bad...

I agree, it looks reasonable from here. The only time I have had any real trouble with Chinese Elms has been associated with re-potting which has me a little stumped as everything I read says they are nearly indestructible.

When I re-potted mine this year the root growth was nowhere near what I expected. I have Privets that outgrow their pots every season. But the Elm, despite three years (I think) in the same pot, had surprisingly little root growth, especially considering how much foliage there was on top.

Just some things to think about.

Norm

[constantstaticx3]

No the soil isn't that bad but there seems to be some of the old soil that still clings to the trunk which may be causing some rot. The soil is also more suited for weather in Florida, where the tree came from, so I am afraid because it is kind of sandy it may dry out too quickly for my climate. He is a respected vendor so good soil is expected it just isn't suitable for my area. I also want to do it so I can get a look at the nebari so I can figure out my design.

Norm, I have repotted the original tree of this thread multiple times in one year, about three I think, it was never phased. I don't know what your problem could be. I'm gonna be careful this time though. I hope to take cuttings and grow a lot of these. I've realized I need to stick to the varieties that grow best in my area and that I like instead of buying one of every species. I'll keep what I have now but for now on I'm going to try to stick to elms, maples, and pines. Of course random nursery material will always be in the mix as well, its just that I find having many different varieties can be too much to handle at times.

Tom