Zelkova broom progression.

[constantstaticx3]

Yea I'm probobly going to go to some local nurseries this weekend and look. Sometimes they have some leftover trees. I can also ask one of the nurseries that I always go to if they could special order me one. Also I almost forgot, I'm going to the philadelphia flower show next weekend. I know of a vender that might have suitable material that I could start on this year. In fact I could email them and ask them to bring one for me. lol. Thanks for sparking up some ideas for me.

Tom

[Gnome]

Tom,

Thanks for sparking up some ideas for me.

You're welcome.

In fact I could email them and ask them to bring one for me.

Make sure they know you are interested in doing a broom so you get a good straight trunk of some diameter. Same goes for the special order, although you may be taking a chance there.

Don't forget that you really only need a portion of the trunk to be straight. I will need to do a ground layer on mine at some point because the lower trunk has a curve. This will also, hopefully, allow me to establish a good nebari.

Norm

[constantstaticx3]

When you ground layer, do you just score the base of the tree cover it with soil and grow a new top root system for nabari or do you chop the tree below the layer after the roots have formed in order to create a completely new root system?

Tom

[ynot]

When you ground layer, do you just score the base of the tree cover it with soil and grow a new top root system for nabari or do you chop the tree below the layer after the roots have formed in order to create a completely new root system?

Tom

Both, First one [Some use sphagnum moss] -Then the other.
You are growing a replacement for defective nebari [the visible portion of the roots] Or in the case of Gnomes broom- To correct a trunk defect.

However, You still need an [appropriately sized ]effective root system with it. This will allow you to remove the older, lower trunk & root system attached to the previous nebari.

ynot

[Gnome]

Tom,

Ynot answered the question effectively. The term ground layer in conventional gardening means something different than what I was trying to convey. Another way to think of it is as an air layer very close to the soil line. In my case I intend to build a smaller training box, with no bottom, to go around the trunk rather than the more often seen method of using plastic wrap. I still have not decided if I will do it this year or wait.

Norm

[constantstaticx3]

Yea thanks I just wanted to clear that up because in one of my books it shows a method where you score a small section of the base and cover that with spagnum moss. This will produce one root or a few roots that you can trim to improve the existing nebari. I've said before I've tried it and was succesful. Unfortunately the tree died later on from a soil problem that was my fault.

In my case I intend to build a smaller training box, with no bottom, to go around the trunk

That sounds like a good way to do it. I'm not a fan of the plastic rap either, it looks horrible.

If I were you I would want to layer it this year but I would think you should work more on developing the branches this year and layer next year, but thats just me. Thanks again for all the info.

Tom

[rjj]

Norm

Ive never styled a broom, but it looks like fun. Yours has a good start.

I've rooted a couple plants a few inches above the soil line before. Stripped about an inch of bark off, Cut a 6" azalea pot in half from top to bottom, and cut the bottom off it. Set it on the soil around the trunk, put a piece of wire round the pot, filled with soil, watered, then wrapped in plastic to help hold moisture.

randy

[Gnome]

Randy,

Ive never styled a broom, but it looks like fun. Yours has a good start.

Thanks, I am looking forward to this years work now that I can begin to prune for some ramification.

I've rooted a couple plants a few inches above the soil line before. Stripped about an inch of bark off, Cut a 6" azalea pot in half from top to bottom, and cut the bottom off it. Set it on the soil around the trunk, put a piece of wire round the pot, filled with soil, watered, then wrapped in plastic to help hold moisture.

Yeah that's pretty much what I have in mind only with a different "container". I have tried air layers before, some rooted and some did not. But I have almost always managed to screw it up one way or another, impatience to remove the layer and inadequate winter protection for the new plant come to mind. I intend to be very cautious with this one.

Norm

[Gnome]

Today I made the new chops that begins the process of dividing the five primary branches. The whole of last seasons work went into creating just these five small stubs. I'm not expecting the new shoots to emerge from the tops of the stubs like last year, but rather from the sides as is more commonly seen. These five branches will become ten, which in turn will become 20 and so on.

YEAR TWO

March-15
[url=https://img184.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chopzu1.jpg][img]https://img184.imageshack.us/img184/2599/chopzu1.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Norm

[rjj]

Nice start Norm. May have to give this a try sometime.

randy

[Gnome]

Randy,

Thanks. It has been an interesting process. I'll keep the updates coming as they are warranted.

Norm

[Gnome]

Here's an update on the Zelkova.

May-25
[url=https://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=broomupdatelx2.jpg][img]https://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3880/broomupdatelx2.th.jpg[/img][/url]

This shot clearly shows the new buds at the tops of the five primary branches. Once again there are too many to utilize and I will be choosing two or possibly three to remain on each.

Norm

[constantstaticx3]

That looks great Gnome . It also looks like there are some buds coming from the base of those stubs as well but they could easily be rubbed off.

THis is going to be a great tree. One question, did you decide to groundlayer this year or are you holding off on this for a while?

Tom

[Gnome]

Tom,

That looks great Gnome. THis is going to be a great tree. It also looks like there are some buds coming from the base of those stubs as well but they could easily be rubbed off.

Thanks, yes there were many buds that formed lower and were removed. At first I thought I might allow the new branches to form from the bark of the five primary branches. Unfortunately the tree did not cooperate, all of the early buds formed at the bases of the primary branches, exactly where I did not want them.

One question, did you decide to groundlayer this year or are you holding off on this for a while?

I think I am pushed back another year. Since I had no luck with new buds forming at reasonable locations I was forced to follow the same course as last year, removing low buds to force the apex, this has slowed me down dramatically. It is now almost June and my shoots are just forming so I am reluctant to go messing around with it this year.

I think that I will be able do at least one round of pruning (of the secondary branches) this year. I hope this will get me off to an earlier start next year. If so I should be able to do the layer then. I did do an air layer on another Zelkova that I have in a growing bed though, just to get some more experience before I commit myself to this one.

Norm

[constantstaticx3]

That sounds like a good plan to me.

I had actualy stopped thinking that I was no going to make a broom out of my new zelkova because of the ttrunkline on the lower portion of the tree, but then I realized I could just airlayer it a little higher than I was initialy and that should leave me with a straight trunk. I think I oing to let a grow for another year or two though to let it thicken up a bit.


Tom

[Gnome]

The Zelkova today, five weeks after the last photo.

[url=https://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=broomjulyjj7.jpg][img]https://img294.imageshack.us/img294/5460/broomjulyjj7.th.jpg[/img][/url]

And a virtual of what it might look like after the coming layer.
[url=https://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=broomvirtcq9.jpg][img]https://img294.imageshack.us/img294/8000/broomvirtcq9.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Norm

[constantstaticx3]

Gnome,

This one is looking great! I would like to see a picture of it in dormancy so the branch structure so far is more visible. Also, do you plan on layering this year or are you going to wait another year for more development?

Tom

[Gnome]

Tom,

Here you go, these were taken on Nov 30. It was pruned back somewhat to aid in storage. I'm pretty sure that I will be doing the layer this year. I can't really think of a reason not to.
First an overview:
[url=https://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pb300003cropvp1.jpg][img]https://img165.imageshack.us/img165/8664/pb300003cropvp1.th.jpg[/img][/url]
And a closeup of the branches:
[url=https://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pb300004cropul8.jpg][img]https://img165.imageshack.us/img165/5481/pb300004cropul8.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Norm

[constantstaticx3]

Gnome,

Its lookin great. I am surprised how nicely the bulge at the chop site has kind of melted into the rest of the tree and is actually quit smooth looking. It seems you have some cleaning up to do with branch structure this year.

I wish you the best on your layering attempt. It would be heart breaking if something went wrong after all this work. I'm sure you can pull it off though.

Tom

[Gnome]

Tom,

It would be heart breaking if something went wrong after all this work.

Bite your tongue. I've had mixed results with layering, one success, several near misses and a few failures. I also have one that was separated last year that the jury is still out on. I intend to be very cautious with this one, leaving it to over-winter into 2009 if necessary. I'll document the process here when I start.

Norm

[constantstaticx3]

[url=https://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zelkovaserratalgaw9.jpg][img]https://img135.imageshack.us/img135/6596/zelkovaserratalgaw9.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Found this on the National Arboretum website and thought I'd post it here for some inspiration. When I eventually make one, I want it to be short and fat like this one. I also plan on visiting this Museum early summer and maybe I can get a better look at its branch structure.

Enjoy!

Tom

[Gnome]

Tom,

Thanks for the picture, I saved it to my "my pictures" folder where it now rotates with others as my screen saver. Now here's something I found recently and wanted to let you know about, [url=https://www.internationalbonsai.com/nbe08/]The First National Bonsai Exhibition.[/url] I don't know if this is close enough for you to make it but I wanted to let you know.

Norm

Edit:

Sorry, I just took a look at Google maps and found that Rochester is pretty far upstate, sorry for the tease.

[constantstaticx3]

Thats a great idea and I just stole it . I actually had the picture as my backround but since you said that I made a screen saver myself.

Rochester is quite far but I have a lot of time to think about it. Who knows?

Tom

[Gnome]

Ok, time for the first update of the year.

It seems you have some cleaning up to do with branch structure this year.

[url=https://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p4240004cropvk5.jpg][img]https://img170.imageshack.us/img170/135/p4240004cropvk5.th.jpg[/img][/url]
Tom, does this look better? I never mentioned it last year but one of the 15 secondary branches was somehow damaged. I don't think it will matter in the long run though, there are plenty of buds to make up for it. Time to layer it off soon, I'm getting tired of the ugly base.

Norm

[constantstaticx3]

Actually it looks fantastic! Once those new branches extend it will look even better almost finished. Be sure to document your layering process thoroughly. I'm so excited for this one!

Tom

[Gnome]

Here's an update on the Zelkova:

The layer is underway and is very promising. This first set shows some of the layering process that was performed on April 26.
[url=https://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17511658zu8.jpg][img]https://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2153/17511658zu8.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=25487708oc8.jpg][img]https://img515.imageshack.us/img515/9528/25487708oc8.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=44696401fc7.jpg][img]https://img515.imageshack.us/img515/184/44696401fc7.th.jpg[/img][/url]


and this one is from today, May 28, just over one month later and new roots can now be seen where I gently removed some of the soil to check on the progress. There were also a few others around the back that are not visible.
[url=https://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=25163305da3.jpg][img]https://img515.imageshack.us/img515/4338/25163305da3.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Norm

[constantstaticx3]

That is fantastic great job. I suppose you will leave this until next spring or will you separate it near the end of summer? I might go for safety and leave it till next year. Good luck.

Tom

EDIT: What root hormone did you use or didn't you use one?

[Gnome]

Tom,

Thanks for the kind words, I'm hopeful. I'm not sure how long to leave it. At this rate it may be possible to separate it this summer, we'll see. The hormone I used is Schultz 'Take Root' I've lost part of the label but if I recall it is .01% IBA.

Norm

[seanchai]

Thanks for the updates, Norm. I'm really enjoying this thread. I quite like the look of zelkovas... might go take a look at some in the next week or so, just to get an idea of what I want. I'm quite sure I won't buy any stock any time soon, nor be competent enough to do anything on this scale for a few years! But I'm a person who likes to look (and look some more) before I leap. This thread has given me a lot of food for thought in terms of plans for the very distant future.

Best of luck with this project. It's really beautiful.

[Gnome]

seanchai,

I quite like the look of zelkovas... might go take a look at some in the next week or so, just to get an idea of what I want. I'm quite sure I won't buy any stock any time soon, nor be competent enough to do anything on this scale for a few years!

You can do this, the steps are all right here and I will be glad to help with any questions you may have. Mostly it is just day-to-day care with a few extra steps. The layering is not difficult either. In the past I have not had a lot of luck layering for various reasons but I am two for two with Zelkova.

This tree started as conventional nursery stock, not bonsai material. I paid just $20.00 for it at Lowe's, but I have not seen them since that year. Could be I just missed them though as I did not buy a lot of their stock recently. If you get one this year you will not do anything with it, except to maintain it, until early next spring. This conveniently gives you the opportunity to learn how to manage it. Look for a straight trunk or at least one with a straight portion, as you can always layer it as I did. The name to ask for is Zelkova serrata, commonly known as Japanese grey bark Elm.

Norm

[seanchai]

Thanks for the encouragement, Norm. I think for this year I'm going to focus on keeping my rheingold arborvite and kingsville boxwood thriving - I'm already a little stressed because I'll have to be gone for five days at the end of august. Not exactly a vacation... more of an unavoidable business trip. (I won't get into why on this board, but it's gotten a lot of news coverage lately ) Anyway, I trust my mother to look after my trees while I'm gone, but I'm sure you know that feeling of general anxiety whenever one has to leave one's trees in the care of others.

So given that, a zelkova may have to wait for next year... I say that now, of course. Once I've gone looking, who knows... I might well be the owner of some zelkova nursery stock sooner than I intend.

Would definitely like to try a project like this myself, though. It looks like an opportunity to *learn* a lot, and I always enjoy those.

[Gnome]

seanchai,

If you have any desire to do this next year you will need to think ahead this year and have one on hand at the proper time which is too early for many local nurseries. Most nursery plants that are established in their pots can easily be removed without disturbing their roots. It would be a simple matter to dig a hole in an out of the way place and 'heel in' a tree.

In this fashion it will not require much in the way of care and it will be there for you next spring. This is exactly how I managed mine over their first winter. The next spring I started this project with one and planted some others out in the garden to get some growth.

Norm

[seanchai]

very good to know, thanks. That's part of why I want to go looking now - I know that if I find a good specimen, now's the time to grab one. I also very much see the wisdom in giving myself time to learn how to manage the species before doing anything drastic. I'm just not sure if my finances will allow for it in the next month or so... money's tight for me at the moment. And I'm wary of getting one too close to august and being gone shortly after the tree's been taken from the nursery to my home. I'm keeping my options open, though, and will definitely keep your words in mind.

Thanks for the help.

[sean117Ply]

Just letting you know I am using this thread as inspiration. I thought of this thread when I saw the tridant maple at the nursery and thought I would give it a shot. It's looking great by the way.

Cheers
-Sean

[Gnome]

Sean,

Glad that this is giving you something to think about.

New update:

Since the last picture from 5-28 the roots have grown at a rate that has truly surprised me. Today, 6-14, barely two weeks later I was able to separate the top from the base.
[url=https://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zrootsux8.jpg][img]https://img363.imageshack.us/img363/6519/zrootsux8.th.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=https://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zpottedzl6.jpg][img]https://img363.imageshack.us/img363/8955/zpottedzl6.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Norm

[constantstaticx3]

That is awesome it could not have gone better. You will now be able to create an exceptional nebari with how those roots span so evenly around the base. Great work I'm thrilled. The overall proportions look great as well. Did? you put that pond basket under the roots when you potted it?

Tom

[alisios]

Great job Norm - would you root prune this year also?

How close to the new bottom did you severe the old trunk?

[Gnome]

Thanks Guys,

Tom,

No the pond basket was just used for support to take the picture. The grow box it is now in is only about 3 inches high so it never would have fit. I have used a similar technique in the past though with cuttings. A smaller pot is inverted inside a larger one and the plant is place on top. This encourages the roots to spread.

alisios,

A few of the tender root tips were damaged so I did nip a few back but overall, no I did not make any real attempt to prune the roots yet. I expect to re-pot it again next spring in order to begin the process of choosing which roots to keep. As it is now there are way too many but I was afraid to do much with them right now.

The stub is about 1" long now and will need to be reduced later but again the roots are too delicate to allow much work down there. By next Spring the roots should be lignified enough to tolerate some work. I know from past experience that Zelkova roots are very vigorous and if I wait longer it will only make it more difficult to begin to refine the roots.

Norm

[Gnome]

Here is a photo of the tree as it is now. I did not do much to it this year other than a little root work at re-potting and allowing it to regain some vigor after the layering process.

[url=https://img43.imageshack.us/I/zelkova.jpg/][img]https://img43.imageshack.us/img43/2228/zelkova.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Norm

[bewildered_nmsu]

Those burned leaf tips remind me of the aspens I'm working. It can be such a challenge just keeping these plants looking presentable sometimes. Keep up the good work.