sort of neat

[gbhunter77]

[img]https://www.angelfire.com/on3/shellandpaulsphoto/2011-10-15_16.24.26.jpg[/img]

A picture of one of the newer member of the bonsai club. I sort of like this one. But then again I like the windswept type. I just can't get one of mine to be like this. Ill get it one day.

[kdodds]

There are very few windswepts that I can say I really like. Currently, this isn't one of them. There's just too much unfilled space. IOW, it looks more like "what the heck do I do with THIS" and less like, "this will be an awesome windswept". That said, where other styles can look fine in development, windswepts, IMO, don't start looking fine until they're close to "done".

[gbhunter77]

Perhaps I'm not as good seeing things as I thought. I'm starting to think I'm not going able to learn this stuff. Ill post more pics from a show we had. The guy loved it, he was a little boastful(I dislike people that do that). I soppose the question is: does it matter what others say. Or is it if he likes it thats all that matters. For me for some reason I care what others say(which is why I never post my bonsai pics.) At the club they told this guy he did a good job for being in it for a year. I don't know why they would say that if its crap.

[img]https://www.angelfire.com/on3/shellandpaulsphoto/2011-10-16_13.47.59-1.jpg[/img]

Here is another from the club meeting. It ok. The guy took like 20 min to make it. He just picked a random bush and said exactly what you stated. "lets see what the heck we can do with this". Sorry I just noticed the pic is upside down. The place was dark so its a tad grainy.

[kdodds]

Oh, I didn't say it was crap. I said I didn't like it and that it didn't seem suited to the style (or any style) to me. Don't like the second one either, sorry.

[gbhunter77]

Now I don't feel so bad. I was looking through a book and hated about 40% of everything he had. I suppose thays what makes it art.

[kdodds]

Possibly. Everyone has their own taste in art, true. And there are just pieces where a majority of people will go, "What the?" BUT, bonsai should, like art in any form, display in such a way that, even if you don't like it, you will agree that it is well done. I think that's what sets true art apart from the rest, despite personal aesthetics. To me, this tree doesn't quite get there (yet anyway).

[gbhunter77]

Then the qestion remains about the firsr tree. Should I keep it and see what happens or trash it?
the well done part of art to me is 50/50 picaso is a good example I do not find most pf hos work as good or well done. But others think ots the.greatedt thing sice sliced bread.

The second bonsai I posted is actually done by a pro. I don't have his name but can get it. I just have a hard time seeing "the tree with in". I have no idea what good is.
I think ill do it just so I enjoy it and not ask opinions.
Thanks for the help though.

[kdodds]

Letting it grow out can't hurt. I mean, it's not like you'll be doing a whole lot but caring for it. Let it grow, see what becomes of it.

[gbhunter77]

The plant int the first image. Does it bud back?

[kdodds]

Sometimes Junipers will back bud, but you can't reliably chop them back.

[gbhunter77]

You guys are a wealth of info. More so than even my club. I will see if I can come up with some sort of scene that would make this growth possible. I mean 95% of the people I showed too thought it was a windswept. But darn that empty space.

[kdodds]

The problem is the amount of empty space in comparison to the thickness of the branches, not the empty space itself. To me, for lack of a better analogy, it looks like one of those pom-pom poodle landscape trees, just bent. JMO, but the character just isn't there. It may come in time, but waiting for those branches to catch up, well, time is something you'll need a lot of. My guess would be something on the order of ten or fifteen years. Again, JMO.

[gbhunter77]

Well 15 years is a bit. Any. Suggestions at what till then.

[gbhunter77]

A bit much for me given I inherited this thing. I used to like it. But now its...um. .hmmm ugly. So should I just chuck it I don't think there is much that can be done with this branch structure. As far as vision goes I have never seen trees in the wild that resemble the bonsa I see in the gallery, I must be missing something. The pine in the first thread of the bonsai forum to me looks OK...So I must be missing something I just can't see "it". Perhaps I'mto hasty. I would never post any of my trees here would be embarresing.

[kdodds]

I just did this quick in paint. See the difference?

[img]https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y201/KDodds/2011-10-15_16_24_26.jpg[/img]

[gbhunter77]

I'm not cut out for this. I tossed the plant hope he does not ask how its doing
But all in all I think I'm going to call it quits. I do not have "it" whatever that magic insight is I do not posses it. That's one reason why I never post pictures of my...err "bonsai" if they can even be called that ,more like kindling. I actually liked it better in the first image but by the end I hated it...contrary to what people here may think of me I do not consider my self stupid(English is not my native language). I freely admit that my dislike of the plant was entirely based on others input and not my own vision. I brought the inital image to an Asian bonsai store owner and asked him what he thought. His answer fell inline with everything you guys stated. He added that he has seen the trees like the original image but you don't want to imitate those. He said "in real tree like this there will be much death, branches can be long like you have. But wind will keep the ends straight not wire. Do you like it?" That is the second time I have been asked this by two different people....I should have lied but said no. When asked why I also should have lied but instead opted for the truth which was followed by me getting my ass chewed out in broken English. Foolishly a few months back I gave the man my photo site address. He was fond of the tiger. So he asked(knowing the story
since I told him before at a club meeting) "how long photo take to get?" my answer was 7 hours. "And the weather?" 8 inches of snow just fell and it was 5 degrees without windchill . "So you freeze ass to get picture, and I tell you its ugly you say?" I say why. "Yes but do you now think it ugly too" I sai I don't know. "Then the problem is not with tiger, bonsai,painting or anything else its with you. I give advice to make tree conform to eye pleasing rules I don't make tree uglier that happened in your head, yes there are trees like this one but there are also ugly photo animals. If this gives you stress or sadness then leave now. Ask for help but don't hate tree because others say so, you should feel the same and know more for future trees....oh and get me a 7x12 of the tiger"


Sorry about the rant but he was right I liked that guys tree, but after all was said and done I still destroyed it out of hate.


Ill have to think about it perhaps I want too much too soon.
Thanks far everything
Bye

[kdodds]

If your problem is wanting "too much too soon" and "lack of vision", there's an easy solution to that. DON'T overwhelm yourself with multiple trees. Starts run $5-10 for 2-4" pots. Cheap 5 year trees run $20-40. Assume you wanted to dump money into 2-3 potted trees and a dozen starts. You're going to spend $100 minimum; probably closer to $200. Go to a GOOD bonsai dealer. Tell him how much you want to spend on a single tree, how you want to keep it (indoor/outdoor, conditions) and what style you prefer. Get that tree, work that tree, and take classes for help maintaining the style.

[gbhunter77]

I feel like I'm the butt end of some twisted joke. This weekend I went to a workshop might have been last weekend its not relavent anyway...I think the teacher was Rick Wagner....but I am terrible with names so I may have just read an article and the name is in my head. Anyway we worked on Jade...huge I have never seen Jade that big (2.5 feet) . I know to you guys has on the small side but the treesI have are much smaller. So he is going around making suggestions and asked me what I should do I say my opinion he agrees....OK then Peter on he tells me to cut a particular branch off. I protest stating my reasons he paused and said "that's some amazing forth sight there"..what gives..."amazing foresight" you have to be kidding me! Sooo Iconfronted him with what I thought was a bad remark on his behalf. His answer was simple "you picked the front I would,made the cuts I would, were not afraid to confront me with an alternate idea, I needed to spend very little time with you, not afraid to make huge cuts and it looked like you smiled...I must admit you look like an angry Russian gangster. Only thing I things I would work on is. a. Your wiring its rough around the edges. b. be patient c.when you show others pictures of your plant like this windswept try not to hate it so much...When you showed to me all I felt from you was absolute hatred...kind of scary when you can project that with your near presence. As soon as that picture Poped on
the screen its like I was surrounded by rage...I'm sorry but I have never felt that from a person"....that last coment floored me...I was told later that none of the women on even some of the men found me "dark"..until later in the session when one old lady asked me ever so softly if I think she should cut something on her tree, I gave my opinion and at the end of the class she confesses I was a "nice young man" but initialy she thought I was "bad". Any way I got derailed from my main story. The instructor told me the same stuff you guys said about the wind swept but.. stated I should keep working on it(sort ignored that advice I guess).

I think you are correct. I will limit myself to a few trees I really like and work those. I do have a small truly windswpt plant that was made by nature not me. Once I get it in the pot I want I may get brave enough to post here.


Thanks very much kdodds...I think you should bill me by the hour

Gbhphoto.com is my site but it 10 years old, I will update it ...at some point

[kdodds]

LOL, good instructor. Sometimes we need a kick in the pants, you know? Here's the thing... You're very new to bonsai. Sometimes seeing the finished product in a starter tree is difficult or impossible. Sometimes you just have to let the tree guide you. And sometimes you don't see anything at all. It's when you don't see anything at all that you should just not work the tree. Move on to the next. You WILL make crap. I guarantee it. Even the best of us still make crap. Sometimes the tree doesn't agree with where we want to go and other times our visions don't pan out. Someone else might like it, though. Put it up on e-bay for a song. Guaranteed someone will like it enough to buy it at a bargain price.