Chinese Elm reconstruction via thread grafting.

[Gnome]

Here is a sequence of photos of a Chinese Elm, (Ulmus parvifolia), that I have been working on since the summer of 2004. I purchased this tree from a local retailer who is also an enthusiast and sells bonsai as a sideline. The first picture shows the tree as is was in June 2004. It was in a plastic pot when I purchased it and I slip potted it into the blue one without disturbing the root mass or moss that was already present.

[img]https://img87.imageshack.us/img87/8429/june2004xr6.jpg[/img]


The second picture shows the tree after repotting in late February 2005, perhaps a bit early but I knew I could protect it from freezing and I was getting itchy to get my hands in the dirt. I like the oval cream colored pot better than the blue one but it is probably too deep and will be changed to a shallower one at the next repot. During the repotting process I discovered that there was a thick root growing straight down. Rather than remove the root I tipped the tree back a little and exposed the root, it can be seen as the center root. I also changed the orientation of the tree.

[img]https://img87.imageshack.us/img87/3214/feb2005dk7.jpg[/img]

The third picture is from June 2005 and shows the tree in full leaf. The picture was taken just after a pruning. The tree is very vigorous and requires pruning of the new shoots several times a year.

[img]https://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2658/jun2005ci2.jpg[/img]

The last Photo was taken in August of 2006. The foliage pads are much neater and I have tried to work the branches back and increase ramification. The ground cover is a form of Sedum that has since been removed.

[img]https://img87.imageshack.us/img87/3356/aug2006hy2.jpg[/img]

This was my first Chinese Elm and I have used the past 2+ years to learn how to manage it and to get a feel for how it responds to pruning. I am aware of several flaws that need to be addressed. The center root protrudes straight out the front and is distracting, by rotating the tree counter clockwise this will be eliminated and it will also bring the movement of the trunk more into profile.

The first two branches emerge in an incorrect orientation with respect to the movement of the trunk and will probably have to be removed and re-grown. The third section of the trunk is straight and long and there is some reverse taper at the top of it where the trunk was chopped before, so a new trunk chop is probably in order as well

In short I have spent over two years with this tree and am only now coming to realize that it needs to be totally redesigned, but I have learned a lot.

Norm

[ynot]

I like the oval cream colored pot better than the blue one but it is probably too deep and will be changed to a shallower one at the next repot.

I think the cream is an improvement and I agree about the depth also.

The foliage pads are much neater and I have tried to work the branches back and increase ramification.

It is showing progress, I think the #2 branch will come down into line in the next growing season.
[If you are still on the same path with this guy]

I may attempt a virt on this using the defoliated picture [I think.].

To continue on a theme [of sorts] this evening, Have you ever considered airlayering the top off of it just above the #2 [lowest LH] and making a short broom style out of the top section as it is fairly straight-ish and the broom would hide the reverse taper.

This leaves the #2 branch as a new leader to induce some taper into a powerfull shohin [or Mame- No idea how big it is.]

I only mention it as you are considering a big chop anyway.

I am aware of several flaws that need to be addressed. The center root protrudes straight out the front and is distracting, by rotating the tree counter clockwise this will be eliminated and it will also bring the movement of the trunk more into profile.
The first two branches emerge in an incorrect orientation with respect to the movement of the trunk and will probably have to be removed and re-grown. The third section of the trunk is straight and long and there is some reverse taper at the top of it where the trunk was chopped before, so a new trunk chop is probably in order as well.

This was exactly what I saw also while looking at your pictures. I think changing the planting angle was a dramatic improvement and IMO your correct that CCW rotation would show more movement.

In short I have spent over two years with this tree and am only now coming to realize that it needs to be totally redesigned, but I have learned a lot.

It was still alot of fun wasn't it.

It is a great feeling of accomplishment to make progress on a tree though sometimes it is only later you discover the direction you should have been going in.

It is interesting isn't it that as the issues you critique wrt this tree become more specific over time , So do your goals wrt it.
Just as important, You now know a bit more about how to get there.

And.... The most satisfying part is yet to come.

Thanks for sharing the progress of this one with us Gnome.

ynot

[Gnome]

Here is a virtual that Ynot was kind enough to create showing a possible direction for this tree. Does any one have any comments?

[img]https://img222.imageshack.us/img222/9706/virtualelmlb7.jpg[/img]

Thanks again.

Norm

[mamfle]

I think shortening the tree will be a good idea, I was looking at the picture from febuary and I found it rather haunting (sorry)

I have been reading a few books and one of them has this section about deadwood, I don't know if it would work with your tree or not but some of the examples that are shown are pretty breath taking.

On the whole The idea of shortening it, is the option I would go for

[cascaded mind]

the cream pot does look a bit big

[rjj]

Hi Norm

I might be tempted to cut it off slightly below the white line.
[img]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/rjj/bonsai%20stuff/aca.jpg[/img]
randy

[Gnome]

Randy,

Thanks for the input. Unfortunately your picture is not loading for me right now, I will try again later, I have noticed that occasionally these 3rd party hosting sites are a bit erratic.

Norm

[Gnome]

Randy,

I just got back to this thread and can see the picture now. What you have shown is very interesting and I wish you had been here earlier as that branch is no longer with us. I had a plan in my head and did some winter pruning a while back. I'll be chopping just a bit above the location you indicated. Thanks anyway.

Norm

[ynot]

I wish I had thought of that also...[img]https://www.mainzelahr.de/smile/genervt/wut.gif[/img][img]https://www.mainzelahr.de/smile/genervt/wut.gif[/img][img]https://www.mainzelahr.de/smile/genervt/wut.gif[/img]


ynot

[Gnome]

Well here is an update on the Elm as it is today.
[url=https://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=celmcy2.jpg][img]https://img135.imageshack.us/img135/6858/celmcy2.th.jpg[/img][/url]
I'm trying to develop one branch at the front of the chop to become the new leader and one branch at the back of the chop to become the third branch.
[url=https://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sketchvc0.jpg][img]https://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2720/sketchvc0.th.jpg[/img][/url]
Please excuse the crude artwork, it is the best I can manage.

Norm

[Petra26]

that's a pretty drastic chop. seems to be the popular thing these days but I do say, I loved that virt you did. that's a much faster and simpler way to draw a virt. photoshop is so slow for me to use. great idea norm

[Gnome]

Petra,

great idea norm

Thank you, but I did have some input from Ynot.

that's a pretty drastic chop. seems to be the popular thing these days

It may be that you are just now becoming aware of this practice or perhaps you meant that there have not been many shown on this site, but this is an age old technique. In fact many bonsai are really "cut down" from larger stock rather than being "grown up" from seedlings or cuttings.

John Naka once said, and excuse me if I mangle this a bit, "You chicken, me chicken, no bonsai."

Norm

[ynot]

that's a pretty drastic chop. seems to be the popular thing these days

These days and days long past, Trunk chops are an old [dare I say ancient ] technique.

I would go so far as to say that it is a very rare thing indeed to see a [Species dependent and of course Yamidori excluded] bonsai with any suitable taper that didn't have one [ usually several] chops during it's development.

When you consider the scale we are working with it is impossible to achieve taper over such short distances any other way.

As I have posted on here [in various versions] previously.

[This may be paraphrased from a Naka quote- I couldn't find the original] :
Little bonsai do not grow up to be big bonsai, Big potentsai [Stock actually] are cut back and rebuilt/constructed to the intended design.

It is all part of the process.

ynot

[constantstaticx3]

So Gnome whats the scoop, hows it doing? I am curious as to how it responded to the chop. I plan on doing something similar in the future to an elm I just recieved.

So... .

Tom

[Gnome]

Tom,

The Elm is responding nicely if a bit unpredictably. It has a strong tendency to throw new shoots at the locations of previous wounds. That is good for forming the new apex but all the lower branches are emerging from the locations of the branches I removed. Here's a picture.
[url=https://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=elmchopeo1.jpg][img]https://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5483/elmchopeo1.th.jpg[/img][/url]
This was taken on the 21st of May. I have since thinned the apex to fewer branches with an eye toward choosing two as outlined above. The lower branches have been thinned as well to one at each site. I intend to allow them unrestricted growth with no pruning. This is required for the tree to remain healthy. By allowing the shoots to elongate I will also have the makings of some thread grafts. This is a new technique for me and will allow exact placement of the future primary branching.

Norm

[constantstaticx3]

Thanks for the update, that looks great!! . Good luck with it and keep us posted on your progress .

Tom

[Geek]

Tom,

The Elm is responding nicely if a bit unpredictably. It has a strong tendency to throw new shoots at the locations of previous wounds. That is good for forming the new apex but all the lower branches are emerging from the locations of the branches I removed. Here's a picture.
[url=https://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=elmchopeo1.jpg][img]https://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5483/elmchopeo1.th.jpg[/img][/url]
This was taken on the 21st of May. I have since thinned the apex to fewer branches with an eye toward choosing two as outlined above. The lower branches have been thinned as well to one at each site. I intend to allow them unrestricted growth with no pruning. This is required for the tree to remain healthy. By allowing the shoots to elongate I will also have the makings of some thread grafts. This is a new technique for me and will allow exact placement of the future primary branching.

Norm

This is a question asked in ignorance so bear with me as I want to learn. Why cant you keep cutting the buds of the lower trunk in an attempt to force it to grow the upper ones. Looking at you picture progression it looks like the little ones at the top cut haven't grown at all.

[constantstaticx3]

Well one of the things that creates a good looking bonsai is the taper of the trunk and its branches. If he were to cut the lower branches now then the upper branches would develope first and be thicker than the lower ones ruining the image. Plus he is nowhere near refining it yet so he is just letting it grow out for this year, I would assume, and decide which branches to keep and which to cut out this winter.

Although, it does seem that the trees vigor is fosused on those lower branches rather than the top, have you been rubbing some of the upper buds off or did they just take longer to develope?

Everything seems like its going fine to me but I'm still a little unclear of where you want the branches to be. I think your saying you don't want new branches to grow from where you removed the ones before. I looked back at your sketch and it seems that some of those buds are in the right place compared to your drawing. Please elaborate .


Tom

[Gnome]

Geek,

Why cant you keep cutting the buds of the lower trunk in an attempt to force it to grow the upper ones.

I could, in fact that is what I did last year when I grew the primary branches of the broom style Zelkova in my other thread. For this tree though I was hoping for branches in particular locations which I did not get. I need at least two long shoots that will not be pruned all season in order to try the thread graft I mentioned earlier. I will keep more than I need though in order to ensure the health of the tree, they can be removed later.

Looking at you picture progression it looks like the little ones at the top cut haven't grown at all.

Since a callous had to form first the top buds are a little behind the others, they are just getting started. I really only want two shoots at the apex anyway. One that will be the third (back) branch and one as the new leader.


Tom,

Although, it does seem that the trees vigor is fosused on those lower branches rather than the top, have you been rubbing some of the upper buds off or did they just take longer to develope?

In this picture I had not removed any shoots at all yet. Since then I have thinned the branches a bit. I removed some from the apex that were not located appropriately, I also thinned the lower shoots to one at each location. To answer your question, the top buds are just a little behind the others, it's still early in the season. In another month they should have grown out quite a bit.

I think your saying you don't want new branches to grow from where you removed the ones before.

That is correct, they were not located properly in the first place. The new shoots are indeed forming from the previous locations where they are unwanted but I need to keep at least a few.

I looked back at your sketch and it seems that some of those buds are in the right place compared to your drawing. Please elaborate

Perhaps the picture does not show it clearly but they are still not located properly. If you think of the letter S the branches should emerge from the outsides of the bends. As it was before , and still is for that matter, they are emerging from the front and back. I'll try to get another picture up in the near future.

Norm

[Gnome]

Tom,

Here are a couple of pics showing where I had hoped that new branches would emerge.

Primary branch:
[url=https://img482.imageshack.us/my.php?image=elmrightej3.jpg][img]https://img482.imageshack.us/img482/112/elmrightej3.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Secondary branch:
[url=https://img482.imageshack.us/my.php?image=elmleftbv5.jpg][img]https://img482.imageshack.us/img482/9492/elmleftbv5.th.jpg[/img][/url]
These picture were taken four days ago on June 04. Today I did two thread grafts, my first attempt.

[Gnome]

This picture shows the path of the hole for the second primary branch.
[url=https://img475.imageshack.us/my.php?image=holehy3.jpg][img]https://img475.imageshack.us/img475/6966/holehy3.th.jpg[/img][/url]


This one shows the branch threaded through the hole and temporarily pinned in place with a toothpick. The entry and exit points were later sealed. The buds in the axils of the leaves were already forming so although I removed the leaves I had to make the hole a bit larger than I would have liked.
[url=https://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=graftpl2.jpg][img]https://img186.imageshack.us/img186/128/graftpl2.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Although I have only shown one graft I did two, located as indicated in my previous post. All that remains now is to leave the tree undisturbed until the branches swell enough to begin to fuse with the trunk.

Norm

[constantstaticx3]

Thanks a lot Gnome, I can see where your going now.

With how fast it seems to be growing, I don't think it will take too long for those thread grafts to fuse.

How tall do you plan on making it? IMO, I would keep it small because of the strong trunk and root base. Looking good .


Tom

[Gnome]

Tom,

How tall do you plan on making it? IMO, I would keep it small because of the strong trunk and root base.

If you look closely at the last picture you can see a vertical shoot that emerges from the callous that formed at the chop site. If the top of the tree were a clock face it is at about 8 O'clock. When the tree is rotated into the desired position it will be at 6 O'clock and should hide the chop well. As far as finished height, probably about one third again as tall as it is now. So only a few more inches I think.

Looking good

Thanks, This is my first attempt at thread grafting but it is supposed to be the most foolproof type of graft so I am optimistic.

Norm

[Gnome]

Here's a quick update on the Elm. For the first few weeks after the thread grafts I was very conservative in that I retained several branches that I knew had no place in the finished design. Today, convinced that the two grafted branches had not been damaged and were growing strongly, I removed all of the unwanted branches. I did this in order to accelerate the thickening, and therefore the healing, of the grafted branches. Here is the tree as it is today.

[url=https://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=celm1eo7.jpg][img]https://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1433/celm1eo7.th.jpg[/img][/url]

In this photo I have digitally 'cleaned up' the tree, removing the visually distracting portions of the branches and also the cut-paste.

[url=https://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=celm2aq5.jpg][img]https://img151.imageshack.us/img151/200/celm2aq5.th.jpg[/img][/url]

This image finally begins to hint at the final form I envision for this tree. The branches will of course need to thicken considerably to heal and then thicken further to present an appropriate image. No further pruning is anticipated in the foreseeable future other than removing any unwanted buds that may form.

Norm

[constantstaticx3]

Gnome,

Congrats on the success so far, it looks great!!

In the second pic it seems you cut off the thread grafts from their origin, did they really heal that quickly?

This is going to be a great little tree .

I need to update of mine, it is growing great but I found that some portions of the base are rotting. One old root was a big problem and was hard to remove. I'll update later when I get the chance.


Tom

[Gnome]

Tom,

Congrats on the success so far, it looks great!! This is going to be a great little tree .

Thanks I'm pleased with the results so far.

In the second pic it seems you cut off the thread grafts from their origin, did they really heal that quickly?

No they're not healed yet, I cheated.

In this photo I have digitally 'cleaned up' the tree, removing the visually distracting portions of the branches and also the cut-paste.

I removed them digitally to show the intended image better.

My research indicates that it is best to perform the grafts during mid-summer when the tree is actively growing. Similarly, it is suggested to remove the branch from the entry point during a period of active growth in order to ensure that the exiting branch makes the transition with less chance of failure. This will probably not happen until next summer.

Norm

[constantstaticx3]

In this photo I have digitally 'cleaned up' the tree

Wow, was this in there originaly? If so, then I'm just blind as a bat. I read that tree times trying to figure out if you did it digitally or physically.

In any case it still looks great and keep up the good work .


Tom

[Gnome]

Here is an update, the picture was taken August 19. The thread grafts and the new leader have yet to be pruned and are getting pretty long. The diameter of the grafts are such that they are now firmly lodged in the holes. I doubt that they are truly self sufficient yet though. All of the foliage shown has developed since the chop earlier this year.

[url=https://img509.imageshack.us/my.php?image=elm0819hi1.jpg][img]https://img509.imageshack.us/img509/2231/elm0819hi1.th.jpg[/img][/url]


Norm

[constantstaticx3]

Looks Great! Nice and healthy.

Tom

[shaunhayward2000]

OMG!! Thats like the scariest thing,.. it was like a stump when you chopped it?! How could you possibley know where it was going to start growing again,... if indeed it would?

Also,.. what did you do with the magority of the tree that you chopped off? did you use that as a clipping to plant a new tree with?

Can you also graft that bit of tree u chopped off on the stump somewhere or manipulate it to grown round the stump,.. or am I talking rubbish?

[Striferitus]

Hell that was a great use of paint I gota give you that

[Gnome]

shaunhayward2000,

Sorry I missed your post in this thread until now.

OMG!! Thats like the scariest thing,.. it was like a stump when you chopped it?! How could you possibley know where it was going to start growing again,... if indeed it would?

The only location that I was sure of was the chop site. This species, along with Zelkova, responds well to this method. A callous forms at the perimeter of the cut and later new buds emerge directly from the callous. I got more than I needed so I was able to choose the two best ones. The lower shoots were less predictable but the thread grafting takes care of that.

Also,.. what did you do with the magority of the tree that you chopped off? did you use that as a clipping to plant a new tree with?

The branches that I removed were already woody and it was winter. I did try to root them but I had no luck with the hardwood cuttings. Semi-ripe cuttings taken during summer are much easier.

Can you also graft that bit of tree u chopped off on the stump somewhere or manipulate it to grown round the stump,.. or am I talking rubbish?

I'm not entirely sure what you are referring to. There are various methods of grafting that can be used. The thread grafting shown here is but one.

[url]https://ag.arizona.edu/pubs/garden/mg/propagation/grafting.html[/url]

[url]https://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATApproachGraftingforBonsai.htm[/url]


Norm

[drzaiusx11]

Norm,

This thread has inspired me to try grafting, a technique I've always been too scared to try.

(I think I'm going try thread grafting some new roots on my fukien tea)

[Gnome]

drzaiusx11,

Have you seen these articles at Harry's site?

[url]https://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATthreadgraftingroots.htm[/url]

[url]https://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATApproachGraftingRoots.htm[/url]

[url]https://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATNebari.html[/url]

Norm

[Gnome]

OK, last update for this year.

October 18th before pruning:
[url=https://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=elmbeforecm5.jpg][img]https://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3296/elmbeforecm5.th.jpg[/img][/url]

October 19th after pruning:
[url=https://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=elmafterst8.jpg][img]https://img90.imageshack.us/img90/2738/elmafterst8.th.jpg[/img][/url]

The Elm grew rapidly this summer. The first and second primary branches grew to lengths of 18 and 14 inches respectively. These figures do not include the portion of the branches that are on the entry side of the trunk, so they were actually considerably longer. All of this growth occurred since the chop earlier this year.

The tree was pruned back in order to facilitate winter storage. I had intended to begin pinching for ramification next year but recently found this description of Elm development by Andy Rutledge.

[url]https://web.archive.org/web/20050212201013/www.bonsaivillage.net/elmPinching.php[/url]

Unfortunately the pictures are no longer available but the point is still clear, at least one more year of unrestricted growth in order to further thicken the primary branches and leader.

BTW, the lower portion of the leader was cleared with an eye toward a future air layer, it should make a nice little formal upright or broom style tree.

Norm

[constantstaticx3]

That tree has made some great progress, great work. I will be updating mine in a minute and it hasn't done too bad either.

Tom

[constantstaticx3]

Gnome,

Don't you think you should let that leader grow out another year? It doesn't seem to be thick enough yet.

Also, if you layer at that height, there won't be much of the leader left. Don't you think you should layer a little bit higher?

Just some thoughts.

Tom

[Gnome]

Tom,

I did not intend to do anything with it this year, in fact nothing is set in stone. I may very well have other thoughts later. On a similar note I just read some interesting remarks Walter Pall made concerning allowing young branches to grow freely for a number of years in order to thicken them properly. This, along with the article by Andy Rutledge that I linked to earlier, convinces me of the importance of allowing unrestricted growth when developing new branches.

I am even considering moving this tree into a growing box rather than a shallower bonsai pot as I mentioned earlier in this thread. This tree requires re-potting this year as the soil is becoming slightly compacted over the three years since it was last re-potted. With the recent work the tree now requires a period of vigorous growth in order to develop properly.

Norm

[constantstaticx3]

That makes sense. Its hard to see the thickness of the branches you've grafted. Is it in the plan to shape them with wire while they are still thin or is that also going to wait?

I really can see a great tree coming out of this. I can't wait to see the finished tree!

Tom

[Gnome]

Tom,

The branches are already too thick at their bases to impart much movement to them now. The idea is to grow them out until their bases reach the desired diameter and then cut them back hard. Any effort to create movement, taper or ramification will be postponed until this point is reached. I have at least one more season, and possibly more, of simply growing it out.

This will be my fifth year year with this tree and I now realize I wasted the first four. Well at least three of them, since it was too late to do any real work the first summer I owned it. This whole thing is a learning curve for me too.

I really can see a great tree coming out of this. I can't wait to see the finished tree!

Thanks, but this tree is a long way from the image I have in my minds eye.

Norm