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ID jit
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SIPs + Cukes or Summer squash or zuccini on a trellis?

I need to make more space and I can't make the garden bigger. Beat back the tomato forest a second time. and went after the summer squash plants, zuccini and cukes with the shears just so I could walk around without stepping on something. All three are still throwing blossoms, and I hacked everything that didn't look like it would produce again this year or wasn't a big healthly leaf which was out of the way.

Have been looking at ways to manage the tomato forest I end up with, and this got me thinking about moving the summer sguash, zuccini and cukes into SIPs and having them grow up nets / trellis.

Is that a viable solution or has it been tried and shown to fail?

If viable, what size containers for say, 4 summer squash seed / 4 zuccini seeds / 4 bush cuke seeds?

Thanks much.

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applestar
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I never have enough room so I grow anything that can on a trellis. Summer squash and zukes are two that can't grow up a trellis though. A ramp maybe, and possibly a low A-frame... not vertical. Cucumber, on the other hand -- forget bush varieties. Just grow regular ones on any kind of thin -- wire, string, netting -- trellis with cross-beam support.

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ID jit
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Thanks much..... that is 1/3 of the problem solved.

Guessing I can get away with 6 cukes in a 12 gallon container like I did with the strawberries.

What to do with the summer squash and the zuccini ???? (Sadly 5 gallons of diesel fuel and a road flare won't work with this!)

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applestar
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I was thinking it might represent a slight space saving if you planted the zukes/summer squash in an earthtainer type SIP and affixed a remesh or cattle panel ramp from the edge to the ground. They can't climb up so well but suspect can climb down a ramp while holding on with their tendrils. Though you may need to assist and tie them on. According to geometry, the diagonal of the right-angle triangle is longer than the base or side.... my guess would one per container.

Or ... You CAN get bush type zukes for container growing, they are supposedly unlikely to ramble so much and maybe won't fall over off the edge of the container?

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ID jit
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Thanks for the tip on container zuccini... didn't know the existed.

I think my solution is going to be cycling plants. Plant 2. When they get half maturity, start 2 more in 2 liter SIPs. When the first two start getting out of hand, replace them with the 2 from the SIPs and start 2 more in the SIPs.

Was thinking about the A-frame idea you suggested.... Pretty sure that is going to be in next years battle with the tomato forest.

30-60-90 with the 30* up top would give me 7' of height and 4' on ground(60*) side with a tumble down side on the back. Kick the back side out a foot or so to diminish the strait vertical drop and start the net 2 feet off the ground, let the plants grow up to it and through it, then train the plants to grow up the net, over the top and back down the other side. Can plant all the cold weather stuff on the back side of the tomato A-frame.

A little adjusting on a other than perfect triangle and I think I will end up with a 4 foot footprint and 6 feet of height. That should work out okay.

imafan26
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I also trellis up. One year, I had an overhead trellis for the squash. I built it out of tent poles. I put the tent over my dry laid patio. I could still walk under it. The tent poles though did start to bend from the weight so I could not use it for the heavy squash. It did better trellising beans, since the vines and beans are lighter.

I don't have a forest of tomatoes and I do have to limit the number of large plants I grow because I just don't have a lot of room. I once grew a Tahitian squash that took over my back yard and tried to take over the neighbors. I usually only grow two tomatoes. It produces as much as I need. I grow 3 cucumber on a double stacked tomato cage, beans and peas on a fence (opened up tomato cage). Ice box watermelon (sugar baby) in a pot and the vines are allowed to trail. (6 ft vines) Long beans and wing beans got a bit out of control they climbed up my plumeria and tried to take over. This year I grew beans and snow peas in the tomato pots because I had to pull the tomatoes because of tomato yellow leaf curl virus. I grew nine beans in one pot and the same amount of snow peas in the other. The beans are growing back in one and I am growing 3 more cucumbers in the second pot. I added a few other pots around the trellis. 3 ginger (to take advantage of the shade the trellis makes, 2 zucchini, and another 3 cucumber which is almost done. I have planted perpetual spinach in the pot with the bean. I hope they get along. I have a passion fruit vine that is growing in my patio. I may have to cut it because it is in the ground and it was not planned for it to be there.

I would add more trellises and consider running the trellis over head.
Many people like to grow hundreds of tomatoes, but maybe you could grow a few less for something else.
There are vining zucchini. Baker has seeds
https://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/56773/#b

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ElizabethB
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I gave up on determinate tomatoes a long time ago. I only grow indeterminate varieties. I am now hooked on heirloom. I use SFG growing principles in table height boxes. MDH Made frames from re-bar and conduit that he had hanging around. BTW he has a small welding machine. The original frames were 4' wide and 7' or 8' tall for ground level boxes. MDH shortened them and clamped them to sides of my boxes. On 1 box I have cross members just tied across the top of the frame. I tie twine to the frame work and as my tomatoes grow I pinch the suckers and train them up the twine. My fall tomatoes will all be in one box. 16 plants, 4 varieties in a 4'x4' box. I have 2 boxes and our project for the weekend is to add 2 more. I can rotate my tomatoes from boy to box just by unclamping and moving the frame work. You do not have to practice SFG to grow your tomatoes vertically. I actually prefer the indeterminate varieties because they produce in flushes over a longer period of time - not all at once. No more tomato forest! :-()

I remember reading SOME WHERE that summer squash can be grown vertically. I just have to find that some where.

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ID jit
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Thanks much.

SFG = Square Foot Gardening methods? If so, there is a 50/50 chance, and I am guessing "no" or "accidently". Will look into it.

It is not my garden, so I get to make few choices. My choice is a happy Mom, so I plant and take care of what she would like and let her take the credit when stuff comes ripe.

If I were going to be doing this for +5 years, I would invest in the rebar / concrete mesh and conduit. The welding would be easy. Realistically, I would be looking at 16 to 24 10' x 1/2" rebar and a +$100 roll of 7' concrete mesh for 8 tomato plants. I just don't want to buy the materials when I am pretty sure the idea I have for p-cord netting on a skewed 30-60-90 triangle frame will work. That's less than $75 with a whole lot of p-cord left over for other stuff.

Glad to hear you read somewhere that summer squash can go vertical.... was going to try it anyhow on the same type of skewed 30-60-90.

imafan26
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I hear you on the cost. I was lucky and got some scrap CRW from a construction site. Only one place will sell CRW by the foot but it would be cheaper to buy the roll and split it with someone. The roll however, is too heavy for me to lift so that would be a problem.

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applestar
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A member that used to post often here said that was the best place to get CRW roll remnants -- construction sites. He was in similar line of work and where he was, they were just throwing out leftovers in the dumpster along with lumber.

But I asked my BIL who is an electrician and used to work at new mall and office building construction sites and he said they didn't do that here -- I guess NJ construction companies were more frugal. I was so bummed. His company's job focus has changed/NJ economy has changed so he's not on new construction sites much any more.

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ID jit
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Location: SE New England: zone twilight or 5b... hard for me to tell some days.

Thanks for all the input and advice. CRW and rebar have pretty much price themselves out of the picture for 6 or 8 tomato plant and what ever else I could find to use it for. (Rust would drive me nuts too.) Like imafan26, I have little chance of picking a roll of that stuff up... kind of thinking that and those 10 footers are not going to fit to well in my hopped-up 92 GTI either.

Did some math and geometry with triangles and trapezoids, That is looking pretty good.



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