Can anyone identify these bugs?

[KenLenard]

[img]https://home.comcast.net/~kenlenard/hibiscusbugs.JPG[/img]

I have a "hibiscus tree" for lack of a better word that has pink flowers and I also have a "hibiscus plant" which is lower and is a yellow, double-flowering cultivar. Both plants go outside when the whether is nice here in Chicago and they're indoors in the winter. For a few years I notice bugs on the yellow plant (not on the pink) and I have picked up various products to spray on the plant right before we bring them indoors. These bugs do not seem to fly and I do not see them anywhere except for on the window sill right next to the plant. Can anyone tell me what this is and the best way to get rid of it? The product I used this past fall was a Bayer insect spray that is meant to be used directly on the plant. I'm a total newbie with all of this... these are plants that my wife bought because she liked they way they looked but we really don't know how to properly care for these. Sort of like getting a puppy because it's cute and then realizing that there's work to be done. Thanks in advance.

[Kisal]

I can't really see them very well, but they might be aphids. They could be spider mites, though. Spider mites are very small, but they can be identified by the presence of spider-like webbing on the plant.

Treatment is the same for either pest. You need to spray the plant thoroughly, from all directions, every 5 to 7 days. Four treatments should be sufficient.

Even a mixture of soap and water will kill these pests, but it's important to use real soap, not a detergent. Be wary of dishwashing liquids, as they are usually detergents. I use Dr. Bronner's liquid soap, but even Ivory will work. Two teaspoons to a quart of water is all you need.

HTH!

[KenLenard]

Thank you very much for that. The product I'm using is Bayer Advanced Insect, Disease & Mite Control. It says it works on aphids, spider mites, Japanese beetles and more. Maybe I just didn't use it enough. I think I hit this plant twice before I brought it inside and then again because I saw more of these things. I actually don't see these bugs on the plant when it's outside, only inside. Also, can you see a reason why my pink hibiscus tree has been spared? While inside, they're right next to each other and the tree has none of this happening. Thanks again for the help.

[applestar]

Wow at maximum magnification I see winged black aphids among the gray mass which appear to be dead or molted shells. This is a pretty nasty infestation. I also see one strand of what looks like spider silk but it could very well be that you also have red Spidermites.
-- Both as commented on by Kisal.

When aphids become over populated, winged forms will fly to next plant. otherwise, a lot of times the wingless ones just migrate from one plant to the other and they can move pretty fast on their short legs. The black ones may be easier to spot but they are masters of camouflage since they take on the color of the plant they are sucking on. Typically indoors, you'll see brick red, celery green, and black ones.

You may simply be not noticing them on the other plant. Also, they tend to prefer tender flower petals as your photo shows and tender new growths and hide very well in folded over leaves and nooks/crannies of blossoms.

Since the aphids give live births and form cluster colonies, sometimes easiest way to diminish the population is to just clip off the mass infestation and dispose of it. Soap solutions are less toxic than many insecticides, and regular multiple application over course of several weeks will ensure stopping the life cycle. You can also brush them off of delicate flowers, etc. with a soft paint brush into a soapy solution. But key is to get them off the plant.

Putting the plants in a shower (or kitchen sink spray) with the container/soil covered in plastic bag to protect from washing out -- hand held shower helps a lot to direct the spray is another way. If they have Spidermites, they are not getting sufficient humidity, and the weekly "rain" will help.

[KenLenard]

Thanks Applestar. Yeah, this is some serious bug action right here. If you click on that shot and look at the larger image, you can see the extent of it and most of the buds/flowers have some of this happening. After I read Kisal's post, I hit it with the Bayer product again and I plan to do that another 3 times over the next 3 weeks. I do not see any green or red colors here, only black and gray. It sort of looks like dirt and/or ash. When the sun was directly on it this morning, I actually saw these thing moving but the vast majority of the time you see nothing moving, like the flowers are covered with pepper or something. Once I go through this 4-week treatment, I will post back and let you know how well it worked. Thanks again for the replies!

Ps. I have been learning about the best ways to care for these plants because I really like them. They take a ton of water in the summer and require less in the winter but as you can see (although the picture is of flowers that are on their way out... the flowers don't last long) I have the yellow one and the red one both flowering in the winter which I'm told is not normal. The yellow one has 5 flowers and the red 4 and both have a bunch that look like they're about to bloom.

[rainbowgardener]

Definitely a serious infestation of aphids. Applestar is right, it helps just to cut off the buds that are covered in them, drop in a ziplock and trash them. Also aphids are very slow and stupid and just sit there and let you squish them. I have a couple plants in my garden that tend to get covered in aphids every spring. I go over them with a kleenex, squishing the aphids and that seems to take care of it; the aphids don't come back until the next spring. The soapy water also works well against them.

The Bayer is a potent combination of three different poisons, with harmful effects to humans and the environment:

Imidacloprid is a neo-nicitinoid, (related to nicotine) which is the class of poisons most implicated in the colony collapse disorder decimating our honeybee population. It is highly toxic to honeybees and moderately toxic to birds. It has been banned in France, Germany and other countries.


tau-Fluvalinate is also highly toxic to honeybees. "Toxic to aquatic organisms, may cause long-term adverse effects in the
aquatic environment" (from MSDS)


Tebuconazole toxic to freshwater, estuarine and marine fish and invertebrates. Has potential for being an endocrine disrupter and is being considered for being banned in the EU. It is a fungicide, which Bayer puts in to make their product multi-purpose, use this stuff against everything. But if you are just treating aphids, you don't need a fungicide. The effects of these poisons are studied individually, but no one even knows what the interactive effects of three poisons together might be.

And it isn't even working that well for you!

Almost any poison that is strong enough to kill your aphids on contact, is likely to be harmful to honeybees and many other beneficial insects that you want to have in your garden, including the lacewings and ladybugs and other things that would eat your aphids.

Why not start with some simple, organic, non-harmful methods?

[KenLenard]

Thanks for that. I didn't realize that this stuff would be considered controversial. I could easily see making a solution of water and soap as described above and I could also see cutting off the infected areas although I'm sure that alone would not completely remove the bugs. I did pick up another product as well... Ortho EcoSense which is made from soybean oil. This was actually the first product I used but it did not seem to help at all. I'll see what kind of "soap" I have (as opposed to detergent) and see if I can continue the treatment with that. Thank you again.

[rainbowgardener]

Almost any kind of oil including salad oil, will kill insects if you can spray it on them so that it completely coats them - clogs up their spiracles (breathing tubes). I one time saw some big ugly bug in my bathroom. The only thing I had to hand was some shaving foam, so I covered it in that. Looked pretty weird, but it worked!

[KenLenard]

Yeah, that's true. I have had hornets or yellow-jackets in the house when I was only armed with Windex or Citrus Cleaner. It may not kill them but it definitely disorients them enough for you to swat them. Thanks again for all the help. My hibiscus plant appreciates it!

[Nickysflowers]

I had the same problem with my morningglorys that started to grow in a bag by themselves so I had no choice but to grow them in the winter (inside). Soapy water did the trick for the less infected areas and clipping off the larger areas was the only way to put a stop to it all. Good luck! So lucky to have hibiscus blooming inside around this time of year! I just look over all my hibiscus pictures in hopes that spring wi get here sooner. ~ Nicky~