New to Container Gardening - NEED A LOT OF HELP

[SLC]

Hi, I really hope someone out there can help me. I have A LOT of questions. I need major help. It's a really long post to explain.

I live in an apartment and have a back deck that is half full sun, half partial sun. I would like to grow some veggies, but have no idea of what container size I need, partial sun/full sun, etc. Not sure if this info helps, but it's sun coming from the west and as the day goes on, the building across the way makes the shade in the afternoon.

I planted the following seeds in 5" tall peat cups on April 3:

- Tomato - Super Sweet 100 Hybrid (3)
- Broccoli - Calabrese (2)
- Green Pepper - California Wonder (2)
- Orange Pepper - Organic Orange Sun (2)
- Red Pepper - Sonoma Sunset Hybrid (2)
- Yellow Pepper - Pot of Gold (2)
- Garden Bean - Landstar (Bush) (?)
- Marigolds (6)

I added what the package says in case it helps. So a total of 13 plants (not counting the marigolds or beans, which I haven't planted yet - see Question 3 below).

I wanted to grow broccoli because it's one of the few veggies I like. But, after reading up on the internet, they probably won't survive the summer. I'm still gonna try though.

These are the plastic containers I have:

- 12" (31 cm) Round (6)
- 10" (25 cm) Round (4)
- 12" (30 cm) Square (1)
- 15" (38 cm) Round (2)
- 18" (45.7 cm) Square (1)
- Several flower boxes (like 10-ish)

Question 1: What plant should I put in what size container? I read somewhere that the cherry tomatoes would do well in smaller pots, but then I read somewhere else that they grow very large, and I need a bigger pot. I am confused! I don't know what to do. I would really like to use the containers I already have listed above...is that possible?

Question 2: Where should I place which plant on the deck? I have partial sun (morning sun, afternoon shade) and full sun - not sure what plant needs what.

Question 3: I was going to try to plant the green beans in the large 18" pot. How many do you think I can fit in there? I read somewhere they need a lot of room, but somewhere else says you can plant several. I tried growing these a few years ago in flower boxes...about 3 or 4 in one, but they didn't produce many beans. I was going to sow these directly in the pot and not start off with the peat pots - is this okay?

Question 4: When should I transplant the seedlings in the large containers outside? This weekend? The plants are about 2 inches high, but don't seem to be growing anymore. People tell me I need to transplant them now outside. It's been 5 weeks, but the package says wait 6-8 weeks. Tonight we are getting a frost - I live in Connecticut.

Question 5: 3 of the pepper plants didn't take, so I just put another seed in the peat pot, and I hope they take! Or should I just plant directly outside now?

Question 6: How many marigolds shold I put in a flower box? 2 or 3?

Question 7: One of my broccoli plants is like 6 inches tall, but has a really thin stem...will it survive? My other plant also has a thin stem, but is only about 2 inches tall and just isn't growing anymore.

ETA: Question 8: I have had these seedlings by the window, which has been open on and off, and just now I noticed like 5 or 6 fruit flies around them! Will they hurt the seedlings? A couple don't look so good. Should I spray something? Or move them to a different location and hope the fruit flies don't follow?

I am sorry for all the questions, I just really need a lot of help, please! I just feel like I am going in circles with different internet sites having different info, but not really the answers I need.

I can post pictures of the seedlings if that helps.

Any help, advice, etc. would so be appreciated! I will take all I can get. If someone answers, but someone else has anything else to add or different advice, I will take it all, please! Thanx!

ETA: I had an old plant light that was still set up that I haven't used in years. Somehow it acquired my printer underneath it. So I moved the printer and now put my seedlings underneath. Of course, one of the fuses went, so one of the bulbs is out (it's got two 20 inch 20 watt bulbs). I'll have to get new fuses. Do you think this is better than the window sill? The light moves up and down - should I move it closer to the plants? Right now it's about 18 inches above the plants. Please help!

[cynthia_h]

These questions really require a book to answer. Fortunately, I can recommend a good one:

The Bountiful Container, by Rose Marie Nichols McGee and Maggie Stuckey.

Nichols is president of Nichols Garden Nursery, "one of America's best specialty seed companies, a business founded by her parents more than 50 years ago" (according to co-author Maggie Stuckey). Stuckey's own situation, which drove her to begin the book?

"About two years ago..I moved into a condominium whose only garden space is a concrete patio about the size of a picnic table. In my old garden I had spent most of my time with herbs and vegetables, and in my new home I wasn't about to give that up, at least not without a fight. If I couldn't have my 'in-the-ground' garden, I decided, I could do it all with containers." (p. x)

Not only do the authors provide direction on which vegetables, herbs, and soft fruits do well in containers, they also give suggestions on how to group plants, either in the same container or multiple containers, for a pleasing look.

I originally came across this book at my local library and was so struck by its valuable advice that I had to have a copy for myself, so I bought one. Maybe you can find a "browsing" copy at the library or a plant nursery and decide that you need your own, too!

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

[SP8]

The biggest thing I've come across with growing vegetables on apartment decks, balconies etc. is that the conditions that you have are always changing. My little area was getting heaps of sun and producing loads of stuff for several months until the angle of the sun changed and resulted in my getting half of my previous sunlight.

My two cents……

Question 1: you've got a good selection of pots and it's fairly simple to look up the mature size of the plant you are growing and set it up accordingly. Keep in mind that although a tomato requires a big pot you can also grow stuff like radish around the edge of the pot to make use of all that soil while the tomato is getting established.

Question 2: It wont really matter while your plants are small but You'll naturally find yourself putting small low lying plants (herbs etc.) in front of tall plants (tomatoes etc. ) in order to maximise you sun exposure.

Question 3: I guess this depends on the variety you're growing but I definitely recommend sowing directly as you should have far fewer pest problems than ground dwelling gardeners.

Questions 4: Never had a frost here but it sure doesn't sound like the right time.

Question 5: I've never used them myself but I don't believe that I've come across many people with anything positive to say about peat pots.

All the best!

[applestar]

About the light -- more light you can give your seedlings, the better start they'll have. So if you can, set up your plant light as SUPPLEMENT to the sun and natural light from the window. This way the plants will get light from both directions. Also, if you put your light on a timer (or simply turn it on in the morning and turn off at night before going to bed) they'll have the extra exposure that they need.

This will help with your broccoli seedlings as well. Later on, when you plant. The broccoli can be planted up to the base of the true leaf rosette, burying the weak lower stem. If they already have a pair of true leaves, I would go ahead and uppot them. I find that using sand around the stem helps to support the top-heavy cabbage-family plants from flopping over.

[rainbowgardener]

It is a lot of questions, I'll start on some and maybe others can join it... I have to go to work!.

Seedlings especially the sun lovers like tomatoes and peppers just don't do very well just with light from a window. Yes your fluorescent light would be better (it's not hard to buy a new tube for the one that burned out and replace it; cheap and easy; you want both of them). And no, it isn't doing any good 18 " above your plants. Light diffuses by the inverse square law... if the lamp is twice as far away, it puts 1/4 the light on your plants. So your plants are getting 1/16th the light they would get if you put the lamp 4" above them which you need to do.

The reason your plants have thin stems is that they aren't getting enough light, so they get tall and slender stretching up to try to find more sunshine.

You are getting a very late start for planting seeds. Broccoli is a cold weather crop. I plant my broccoli seeds mid- Jan, plant them out mid-March. They went through several frosts and snows since then just fine. You are in a little bit colder area than me, so could slow that down a bit. But at this point you might save your broccoli seed, plant it at the end of the season for a fall crop.

Re what goes in sun and part sun. Pretty much every thing you named is a full sun plant. If you are going to do the broccoli now, it could benefit from some shade, since it doesn't like heat. The marigolds are probably ok with less than full sun (you didn't say are they tall marigolds or dwarf-- if dwarf, they are small and can just be tucked into pots with other things). All the tomatoes, peppers, beans want full sun. If you don't have enough full sun for all of them, beans would probably be the next priority for what might tolerate a bit less.

Don't transplant any of these except the broccoli outside while you are still having frost!

Peppers are slow to sprout and slow to grow. At this point, if it were me I would go to a good nursery and buy a couple well started plants (AFTER frost danger is past). Try again next year on starting them from seeds after doing a bit more reading here . If you type seed starting into the Search the Forum feature, you will find tons written about how to do it, with pictures of people's seed starting operations, etc.

[SLC]

Thank you all so much for your advice!!! If anyone has anymore, I will gladly accept it!!! I think at this point, I will try different size containers for the plants and see how they do per size.

I am not sure if I can transplant outside this weekend because it will still be pretty cold. I've got the plants under the plant light for now and I will keep it there until I transplant outside. I don't think it's the bulb that is broken, I think it's the fuse...or the actual fixture is broken.

The Marigolds are just called, "Burpees Best Mix." And it says they'll grow to be 12 inches tall. They are doing pretty well I think.

Here are some pictures - They were planted 5 weeks ago - shouldn't they be bigger? Anyway, these are super huge pictures, if you click on them, then click again, it will get closer. (I read to get rid of fruit flies to sprinkle ground cinnamon, so that is the light tan stuff you see on the leaves)

Broccoli - both planted at the same time, but the one on the left is so tall! Not sure if this is normal.

[img]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/SecretlyLovesClay/Plants/P1000116.jpg[/img]

Tomatoes - The one of the left looks okay, I'm not sure about the one in the middle, but the one on the right looks pretty good I think.

[img]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/SecretlyLovesClay/Plants/P1000117.jpg[/img]

Orange Peppers - Eeeeyeah, I am pretty sure the one on the left is dead. I did plant another seed on May 4th just in case. The one on the right might make it I think.

[img]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/SecretlyLovesClay/Plants/P1000118.jpg[/img]

Red Peppers - The one on left looks good I think, but the one on the right, I'm not sure sure...has some holes in the leaves? But it does look like a 2nd set of leaves is just starting...but you can't tell from the picture below. But that would be a good sign, right?

[img]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/SecretlyLovesClay/Plants/P1000119.jpg[/img]

Green Peppers - the one on the left just can't seem to shake off the seed....do you think it eventually will? And the one on the right never sprouted. I planted another seed on May 4th, so I just wait and see now...

[img]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/SecretlyLovesClay/Plants/P1000120.jpg[/img]

Yellow Peppers - The one on the left looks good...if you zoom in, you can see the 2nd set of leaves starting. The one on the right never sprouted...but I planted another along with the others on May 4.

[img]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/SecretlyLovesClay/Plants/P1000120.jpg[/img]

And finally, the Marigolds...they all look good! I think...

[img]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/SecretlyLovesClay/Plants/P1000122.jpg[/img]

If anyone has anything to add, please let me know!

[rainbowgardener]

I'm really sorry to be a bearer of bad tidings, but most of those seedlings are never going to turn in to anything.

Here's what my broccoli seedlings looked like after about 4 weeks from planting the seeds:

[img]https://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/rainbowgardener/broccoli_seedlings.jpg[/img]
(you can click on picture to enlarge it)

Your seedlings should not be much taller, but they should be much sturdier, leafier and greener.

Clearly yours haven't gotten nearly enough light (those are fluorescent tubes immediately over the seedlings in my picture).

But it looks like they may have gotten not enough water (soil looks pretty dry in some of your pictures) and possibly not enough nutrients either. Did you put them in seed starting mix? The potting soil I use has Miracle Grow fertilizer in it, but seed starting mix is really only for germinating the seeds and usually doesn't have fertilizer in it.

And the peat pots are terrible for trying to grow plants in. If you water, they hold the water in too much and your seedlings damp off. If you don't, the peat sucks all the water away from the plants.

I would pitch the broccoli and take the best of the tomatoes, peppers and marigolds and replant them in plastic pots (could be plastic drink cups with drainage holes put in the bottom) in good potting soil. Then either put them under good lights or if it's warm enough start taking them outside (since they are not at all used to light, they need to get used to it a little at a time, put them out in a protected situation with indirect light for just a few hours at first and gradually increase the hours and amount of light).

And do a little more reading... here's a 9 page thread on seed starting where I originally posted the picture above.

https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12209&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=seed+starting+operation&start=45
If you type seed starting into the search the forum feature, you will find lots more.

[SLC]

Awww, man!

That's sad news. Thank you for all of the tips and advice, etc. I will know better for next year!

Since I have all my pots set up outside already, I guess I will just start over and plant new seeds directly outside. I was at the gardening department this weekend, and it says for this area to plant around May 15, so I guess that will (hopefully) work! Please wish me luck!