Advice for determinate Gold Nugget Tomatoes, Early Jalapenos

[applestar]

Whew!! Been surfin' the web. I just couldn't be convinced about the white surface being better than the mirror, or that mirrors somehow absorb light.

See, I would've said mirrors reflect light perfectly without distorting it. That's why you can see your reflection in it: Your eye's perceive light. HOW could a mirror not reflect light as well as a white painted surface or mylar or aluminum foil? Only possible light loss I could think of was through the pane/plane of glass to the edges, like fiber optics. Well, according to a discussion on another forum, mirrors are bad for plants because they don't diffuse light and create hot spots. But I don't think this would apply for us since we're talking about using fluorescent lights.

Well, I found the source for your quote:

https://phys.lsu.edu/~jdowling/mit.html

Mirrors come in two basic varieties. The most common are metallic mirrors like those found on the walls of Versailles or on medicine cabinets. Metallic mirrors work pretty well, but they have limitations. The most important is that they waste energy, absorbing a small fraction of the light that falls on them. That is because when light, which, like radio waves, is a form of electromagnetic radiation, strikes a metallic mirror the electrons in the metal move just as they do when a radio signal strikes an antenna. Pushing electrons around takes energy, which dims the reflected image. So metallic mirrors cannot be used in applications like communications and high-powered lasers, where minimizing energy loss is important.

Based on what is said in this article, I'm thinking both aluminum and mylar conducts electricity, so they would have similar energy-wasting limitation as an ordinary mirror.

If it took the scientists until 1998 to figure out that they can make a better mirror, I think I can be excused for my misconception, but I wasn't convinced that a white surface is better than a mirror for providing MORE light....

Then, I found a white vs. mirror discussion here:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=79737
Another thread https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=180788 said:

If a smooth white surface reflects all light, then why isn't my mirror basically a white surface?
How come a white surface act as a mirror?

A white surface reflects light in all directions ([url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffuse_reflection]diffuse reflection[/url]), whereas a mirror reflects light in the same direction at every point ([url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specular_reflection]specular reflection[/url]). The white surface is not really that smooth.

I still have to say, though, for ease of use, you can't beat aluminum foil and re-purposed aluminum containers, and this matter of energy loss may be an insignificant/moot point.... And I did see someone say that amount of light a white surface can reflect can vary from 60% to 90% depending on the material and pigment used. I'm off to read about diffuse and specular reflection.

[Kisal]

If your question is "Are Capsicum's short-day, long-day or day-neutral plants," I would say they're long-day. In non-tropical areas, they're usually grown as summer annuals. JMO.

[resolutejc]

Thank you, rainbowgardener. Cynthia_h asked me to, "give more information on this phenomenon, or maybe a source where more info is available." I did give more information, but for future reference, I will cite for clarification.

The problem is not the light or the temperatures, but it may be watering and fertilizer schedules. I try to be as consistent as possible, watering every 2 to 3 days and fertilizing every 2 weeks. My problem is that I don't know whether 1/2 cup of water is enough for one plant or 2 cups for another, likewise with fertilizer. How much is enough? I'm not diluting gallons of this at a time as the instructions on the bottle say. I found that it can become quite stinky and stale so I mix this in small batches. I tend to eyeball it, which I know is wrong but I'm not using more than a capful or two at a time. I need a proper kit to test N-P-K and pH levels.

In regard to the tomato inquiry, you are seeing one tomato plant from one seed. The stem is V-shaped near the soil line and splits in two. The other sticks you see are bamboo, not tomato vines. My jalapeno and two habanero plants are so close together because the jalapeno plant is in a smaller pot, thus making it shorter in height. I had to prop it between the two habanero plants so that it would receive adequate light. This also doesn't hurt in terms of supplying humidity.

My unanswered questions involved pruning to increase fruit production, fertilizer and water application. I haven't come across a source yet that explains the fertilizer/h20 amounts needed per container plant. I know the fertilizer application depends on the N-P-K and that is why I listed them above. I was hoping a veteran could take one glance and it and know exactly how I should be applying it for the given plants through each stage. Maybe my requests were too tall.

I did in fact list my container sizes in response to applestar in my Feb 5th post. Here is the section:

My Pot Sizes:

Jalapeno: 7-in wide by 5-in deep
Habanero: 8-in wide by 8-in deep
Tomato: 11-in wide by 9-in deep

Thank you, Kisal for the long-day answer.

[resolutejc]

Nevertheless, I still don't see any justification for use of mirrors or foil over mylar or flat white paint. Hot spots and wasted light are two things that I want to avoid.

Useable reflection of light (in percentages):

Foylon 94-95
Reflective Mylar 90-95
Flat white paint 85-93
Semi-gloss white 75-80
Flat yellow 70-80
Aluminum foil 70-75
Black < 10

I'd imagine mirrors reflect light somewhere around flat white paint. The only difference is that flat white paint doesn't create hot spots or waste energy.

Another question: Assuming they are all the same height, is 10,000 lumens enough for 4 closely positioned plants in 10-12 inch diameter pots?

I just want to thank everyone that has contributed thus far. I really appreciate it. Let's keep it going!

[applestar]

So what WAS your source Is it the same as the list of % reflection?

The simplest ways to tell if your indoor plants are getting enough light is to observe whether the new and overall growth are stretching/leaning towards the light, and by the normal vs. elongated internodes between leaves and/or side shoots as compared to healthy, stocky/sturdy plants.

[resolutejc]

So what WAS your source Is it the same as the list of % reflection?

The simplest ways to tell if your indoor plants are getting enough light is to observe whether the new and overall growth are stretching/leaning towards the light, and by the normal vs. elongated internodes between leaves and/or side shoots as compared to healthy, stocky/sturdy plants.

Not sure since I was doing lots of random surfing like you were on the subject. The source for the list of reflection was different. My plants are getting plenty of light; it's the fertilizer application rates and pruning practices for specific plants that are confusing me at the moment. These are two subjects I need to delve into.

[OldThymer]

OK I have been growing indoors for about 20 years or so. I have a few points.

A white surface is far superior to a reflective surface. I don't have scientific evidence but I do have experience and experience of my peers.

Peppers do great indoors. If flowers are dropping you have not watered enough, the heat is too high (with not enough humidity) or the nitrogen levels are too high. Nitrogen that is too high will not allow peppers to fruit.

As far as tomatoes. I use a 5 gallon bucket when I grow them indoors. One thing I will say is that I usually have to water every day or every other day. I also feed with each watering. Tomatoes need a lot of nutrients, more than any other fruit/vegetable I've grown indoors.

For each I simply have fans in my grow rooms and those fans provide enough air movement to pollinate the plants. I use two 600W HPS (digital) lights in my flower room and two 6X2' T5 lights in my veg room. Also I put my lettuce in my flower. Oh, I also have some LED lights for supplemental lighting. I find that the HPS lights (with a flat white paint on the walls) provides more than enough light and it penetrates the canopy enough.

With that said, a flat white paint will be better than a glossy paint.

[applestar]

FANTASTIC! So, as stated above, the likely reason would be the light scattering effect of the flat white painted surface vs. directed reflection of the reflective surface that, overall, supplies even light exposure?
No hot spots <=> no shaded spots?
... No natural sunlight at all in your grow rooms?

Wait! What if you INTENTIONALLY wanted to direct/reflect the light?

I guess everyone's agreed on 5-gal bucket as a sort of an ideal tomato-growing container. What do you use for drip trays?

I've been surprised by how well my pepper experiments are holding up, and I guess what you said bears this out. I'm going to push a little further and start "some" hot peppers this year that hopefully, I'll be able to keep year-to-year: Czechoslovakian Black, Royal Black, Fish, Aji Dulce, Tepin, two kinds of Jalapenos and two kinds of NuMex Anaheims.
(Any input you have on them would be greatly appreciated. )

Pollination -- so both tomatoes and peppers? Just the fan, huh? I guess the tendency *is* to try to overthink it and fuss too much.

Do you have any insect problems? ... or after 20 years, no insect dares to step their tiny toes inside?

... Wow, is there even a single paragraph in this entire post in which I didn't ask you a question?

[OldThymer]

I have zero natural light in the rooms. I'll have to post pictures some day. For drip trays I use the trays you put under your washer machine. Two fit side-by-side in each room with about a foot to spare on all sides.

I grow sweetheart, flavorburst, jalopeno (2-3 kinds), anaheim, cayanne, and habanero. Yes, just a fan sitting on a shelf. I have it directed towards a corner so the wind goes around to room. To verify this I stood in the room with the door closed and ensured that wind was getting to every part of the room. Once in a while I will tap a flower but I don't think it is necessary.

I had one issue with spider mites but that was because I put plants from Wal-mart into my room. I have since learned. I also had an issue with fungus gnats but that is because the soil I bought from Home Depot was tainted with them.

If you want to direct light I would point a light. I do not like using reflective surfaces to direct light because it could cause hot spots. Now I do have two walls that have a reflective surface. I am using Reflectix Insulation. https://www.homedepot.com/Reflectix/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ19nZ1xr5/R-100020855/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1

[applestar]

Thanks for answering my inquisitive post! A photo or two or three.. would be great! I'll be looking forward to that.

The standard size for the washing machine pan seems to be 28"x30" so I guess you can put 4 5gal buckets, which measure 12"D at the top, on each.
Your "rooms" sounds about the size of a walk-in closet or a powder room. Hmm. Nah, DH will never go for that.