damethod
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Location: Miami, FL

Raspberry plants growing out of control

I am not sure what type of raspberries these are. I believe the variety was called heritage. I bought them online through ebay. When I received the package, it was a branch with roots(best way I can describe it). I planted it and watered it once a week. The soil I planted it in had been previously fertilized with 6-6-6.

The plant began growing and has not stopped, yet i haven't seen any raspberries. Thy were growing everywhere, so I purchased a trellis to keep them at least slightly organized. The canes are over 5ft tall upright! I topped off one to see what would happen yesterday.

Anyways, how do I care for this plant? How long will it last me? When will I see berries? How much can I trim the canes before I see berries?

Here are some pics of the mess that is my Raspberries...

[img]https://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b158/damethod/Gardenpics017.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b158/damethod/Gardenpics018.jpg[/img]

aqh88
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Much the same as for the blackberries. You got them this year? Have they produced any blooms? Here the plants are just getting started for the year and we won't have berries until around August. Some plants won't produce the first year but you should have berries next year. If your trying to grow them in a small space you'll need to trim pretty aggressively and direct the stems where you want them to go. Cutting the top works fine if you don't want them to get too tall but then you'll have to make room for them to grow wider. Raspberries can take a lot of abuse and so long as the growing conditions are ok (sun, enough water, etc..) they will just keep coming back even better than before.

damethod
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Location: Miami, FL

Thanks for the tips! I did buy them this year and hope to see raspberries in the fall. I've been letting them grow while trying to guide the canes to stay in the cage.

SG6
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The most commonly available raspberrys are termed summer fruiting.
They fruit on last years growth. So you would not get fruit on them the first year. If you cut the growth off at the end of the year you won't get fruit the next year either.

Basically:
Year one: Plant them and let them grow. In the autumn do nothing to the growth.
Year two:Leave the previous years growth - this will fruit in this the second year. Let any new groth grow. In the late summer pick the fruit (hopefully). At the end of the year cut out the "old" growth that has fruited and was the previous years growth. Do not cut out the new growth as this will bear fruit the following year.

They should last several years and they can grow to a fair height, 5 ft is easy for them to reach. The main "work" is separating old growth and new growth so you know which to cut at the end of the year.

Autumn fruiting raspberry's are a lot easier, but give less fruit. :D :D

damethod
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Location: Miami, FL

I posted a new topic with pics of the raspberry plants now. They seem to be drying up...I was wondering if this was the natural drying process. Do I let them dry out and wait until next year for new runners and fruit?..or do runners continue sprouting all the time?..or do they have a problem.

cheshirekat
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I'm not an expert but thought the suckers would continue all the time - the reason some people feel they are invasive.
"Love all God's creatures, the animals, the plants. Love everything to perceive the divine mystery in all." -Fyodor Dostoyevsky

SG6
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Heritage is termed Everbearing in the US and Autumn in the UK. So assuming they are heritage they should fruit on canes that grew this year.

This type throw up canes in spring, fruit on these canes in Aug-Sept and you prune them (cut to ground level) after they have fruited - say Nov-Jan. Then the cycle starts over again each year.

Problem I have is in working out if the raspberries can have an idea of spring, summer, autumn and winter in Florida. :D

It could be that they are not seeing a dormant time (Winter) so end up growing all year, and you will have a plant with canes at all stages of growth.

Have the canes that are "drying up" had fruit on them, probably last year? If yes then I suggest that you cut them out. If not leave them and see what happens. If the canes did fruit last year they may have a light crop of berries this summer, then they will die off. So there is no harm in leaving them and seeing what happens.

One thing I did, being lazy :lol: , was to leave all canes on and I found that after 3 years the old canes died off naturally and I simply waited until they wre obviously dead then cut the cane out. Simple :wink:

damethod
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Location: Miami, FL

I purchased the plants only a short while ago. Maybe two or three months ago. They were growing like mad and now are suddenly very sad. Yellow and brown leaves all over the place. The new growth is still green..but, I don't know what to do. It's been raining alot these past few days. I've applied fungicide..but, it's gotten worse.

[img]https://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b158/damethod/raspberryspots001.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b158/damethod/raspberryspots002.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b158/damethod/raspberryspots003.jpg[/img]


:? what is going on??

TheLorax
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I have a few NA native Rubus here- Rubus allegheniensis var. allegheniensis, R. odoratus, R. parviflorus, and R. flagellaris. R. parviflorus is my favorite. I purchased them for their wildlife value and not for personal consumption. My experiences aren't much to write home to mom about as I've had few issues with them but from time to time I do check on them. I kept looking at your first photos and could not see all that much wrong with your plant based on having some familiarity with Rubus. Perhaps a little insect activity in that I think I might have seen little holes in some leaves and definitely what appears to be chlorosis but that can easily be taken care of. Chlorotic leaves can scorch and turn brown as you described. I looked up your cultivar and learned it was actually Rubus idaeus ssp. idaeus 'Heritage'. Appears you have a cultivar of a raspberry that's native range is Europe and Asia that was probably selected for desirable traits such a disease resistance or larger fruits or something. The straight species of your raspberry, like all of mine, is generally an understory or woodland edge plant from what I have read. My plants are all in dappled shade and they seem to be doing great. Appears your plant is in full sun. I read that the recommendations for 'Heritage' were full sun and loamy soil. With how well mine are doing in well drained areas on my property of dappled shade, I can't help but wonder if perhaps 'Heritage' might not do better out of late afternoon sun? Just a thought and please know I've never grown a European raspberry before. Barring that, I keep looking at your first photos and am just not seeing any evidence of a fungal disease on the plant. Here's a link to some decent photos on fungal infections of raspberries for future reference-
https://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/DG1152.html

Which fungicide did you spray that plant with? I can see the plants have some serious damage based on the current photos. Just a thought here but what about not spraying the plant with a fungicide (the plant might not have had a fungal infection) in favor of trying to deal with this as if it is an iron deficiency? Other thought would be to create a frame around where you are growing it to raise it up a bit as if it were in a raised bed. Raspberries do seem to like well drained soil and this might provide you with an opportunity to create more favorable growing conditions.

Short read on chlorosis and raspberry plants here-
https://utahpests.usu.edu/plantdiseases/htm/non-pathogenic/iron

damethod
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Thanks for the links. Unfortunately, I don't see anything that points me in the right direction. The brown areas do not feel dry to the touch. I've researched and researched and have found no specific reference to what is going on with my plants. :(

I'm going to try what you said and apply some liquid chelated iron. Should I apply directly to the roots?...or can I apply it to the whole plant?

Also, I've been meaning to try and organize the berries a little better. This is my first experience with them and did not know that they grow so wildly. Hopefully, I can at least learn something from this.

damethod
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Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 4:15 pm
Location: Miami, FL

Does anyone have any pics of their raspberry garden? I'd like to see what you used to try and keep it all organized.

TheLorax
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I'd be happy to take some photos of my plants for you. It's raining right now but I think I can get to one R. parviflorus without getting drenched. I don't have any of them in a garden setting per se. All are planted out as they would have been found in a natural setting. Remember, I'm growing NA natives and you've got a cultivar. Give me a little bit of time to figure this all out, I've only posted photos a few times and am not all that quick about it.

Regarding a specific reference to what's going on with your plant, please go online and do an image search for chlorosis + leaves and you will see representations very similar to the photos you shared.

How did you amend the hole before you planted your raspberry? What kind of soil did you have in that area to begin with? I think this is going to come down to a basic learning curve deal so don't be too hard on yourself.

Regarding the chelated iron, see other thread.

damethod
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Location: Miami, FL

The area they are growing in was covered in grass. I cleared a 30' by 2' space for my herbs and veggies. I dug about 1.5 ft down and cleared all rocks and other materials out. I filled the area with soil (about 80% organic choice gardening soil and 20% native soil). Now that I think of it...I believe it was specifically for veggies. I would imagine that if it contains the wrong type of nutrients in the soil, the plants would have shown problem signs early on. What do you think? The plants look healthy in the first pics I posted of them.

The soil is supposed to feed for up to two months...so, I haven't really applied anything in the form of fertilizer. The only time I applied anything other than the fungicide was some organic plant food that comes in a plastic bottle. Probably a mistake...but, this was at least 2 weeks ago.

Could it just be too much water? It's been raining an aweful lot lately..

The more I think of it..the more it seems as though I've been doing everything wrong. :(



As for posting pics...it's pretty simple

1. Create a photobucket.com account for free
2. Upload pics from your computer(i have a file just for garden pics with titles and all to keep it organized)
3. Once you've uploaded pics from your comp to your photobucket album..your ready to post pics here
4. Click on the small boxes next to all the pics you want to post in a given message
5. Once you've selected them..scroll down to the bottom of the screen and click "Generate HTML code"
6. The screen will refresh and present you with codes for different sites. Go to the one that says "IMG for messageboards" or something like that.(it is the option under the "recommended" option for message boards.) Highlight the code and then copy and paste onto your message.

I usually type the message..then minimize the window with my message...then open photobucket and copy the the code for my pics...then reopen the window with the message and paste it in.

Thanks again for all your help.

TheLorax
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One big problem with your veggie mix soil, raspberries like loamy soil that is well drained. If it were my plant, I'd probably dig it out and start over, this may very well be at the root of your issues. Should you choose to dig it up, please consider raising it up a little bit. About 6" should do. It's that learning curve we talked about, I've slammed into the learning curve full force myself more times than I care to admit.

Here we go!
The first photo is an otherwise healthy R. parviflorus. As you can see, I stepped on it so half of it is not too happy. Good for you I stepped on it last week otherwise I wouldn't have known where to go looking for it to post photos for you.
[url=https://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2037972910103590453csVbGB][img]https://thumb13.webshots.net/t/50/650/9/72/91/2037972910103590453csVbGB_th.jpg[/img][/url]

Here is a close up of a leaf that insects sampled, not a big deal-
[url=https://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2881125180103590453bVGjep][img]https://thumb13.webshots.net/t/60/660/1/25/18/2881125180103590453bVGjep_th.jpg[/img][/url]

Yes, too much water can definitely be contributing to some of your issues. This is the reason why some of mine are looking rather chlorotic. We've had so much rain in my area that I'm surprised I've actually got a few out there that aren't looking yellow with the telltale green veins. I'm going to nail a few very large iron nails around my plants and I'm also going to work in a little greensand. Greensand is a new product I discovered that I have really taken a liking to. My problems should correct on their own once the rains go away. We've had 3x the normal rainfall this month alone.

Here is a classic example of leaf chlorosis on another Rubus compliments of the daily deluges around here-
[url=https://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2834888670103590453GRqKNZ][img]https://thumb13.webshots.net/t/30/466/8/88/67/2834888670103590453GRqKNZ_th.jpg[/img][/url]

And now I am going to go and find the bottle of caladryl lotion. I am covered in skeeter bites and I itch. :D

damethod
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Location: Miami, FL

Thanks for the pics Lorax! :D

I just went outside to check on the plants and they are not soggy to touch. It is looking more and more like Iron deficiency. I checked the dirt and it was very very damp. That's probably because I have a 2 inch layer of mulch around the plants...is that ok? I'm thinking I should clear away some of the mulch..let it dry out a bit..and see what happens. If it doesn't improve by Monday...add some iron. What do you think?

I don't think I'm going to dig it out yet because if I mess up..raspberry plants are impossible to come by here. I had to order these online! Also, it is full of thorns..so, i'd have to wear a full body suit to avoid getting pricked a million times. It's amazing how sharp those things are! What I am going to do is take them out of those tomato cages and combine them with two more cages to make a large enclosure. It is far too messy as is.

I haven't found many pics online that can give me good ideas on how to reorganize them. If anyone else would be kind enough to share pics of their raspberries, I would really appreciate it. If not pics.. but you have links to a site with pics or instructions on setup..that would be great too.

Oh..and sorry about the bites. :oops:

TheLorax
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Umm, I'd work in the iron now.

I have this little voice that tells me you need to switch to a loamy mix for your raspberry combined with raising it up.

Let your plant dry out before watering it again.

I mulch just about everything.

I'm a stick gardener. I stick plants where I believe they will do best with little or no organization to anything. I definitely can't help you with photos of re-organizing plants.

damethod
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Location: Miami, FL

I just found some type of goo looking substance on the mulch around the base of the plant. Looks like bird poop..but, it's definitely not that. Could this be signs of root rot?

I cleared away the mulch and the goo to reveal the very damp dirt. I hate to be repetitive..but, in light of this..you still think I should apply the iron now.

I don't think I'll dig it up unless it gets worse..so, if I do dig it up..what would I then apply to the soil in order to make it more favorable?

Just an observation...but, what a huge difference from the first pic in this thread to the last. :shock:

I appreciate your responses.

damethod
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Location: Miami, FL

Im starting to think that goo may be the leftovers of the organic plant food I applied. I think that is where I really messed things up. Would the leaves show the same signs if over-fertilized? What about too much iron?

I ask about the iron because I am not sure if I applied some iron to it at the end of last month. I applied it to all my trees..but can't remember for the life of me if I applied it to the berries. I think I did.

damethod
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Location: Miami, FL

Scratch that...I applied liquid chelated iron on the 27th of May to the berry plants. I sprayed it directly onto the soil around the base.... more iron?

TheLorax
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I think this plant is being killed with kindness. Over fertilization can be a big problem too.

Please consider saving your sanity by digging it up and starting over.

Try a raised bed even if you only use a 2 x 6 to frame out an area for it.

Organic mulches decompose. What you described is not uncommon.

Here's your mix but skip adding fertilizer other than working in some chelated iron-
https://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/hil-8204.html
SITE AND SOIL
Raspberries grow best on deep, sandy-loam soils well supplied with organic matter. They may be grown in any good garden soil provided it is well drained to a depth 3 ft and has high moisture holding capacity. Although the pH of the soil is not that critical, a range of 5.8 to 6.5 is considered optimum. Select a site where tomatoes, potatoes or eggplants have not been grown. Also, a planting should not follow directly after a sod but rather the planting should follow a cultivated or cover crop. If the soil lacks organic matter work 1 inch or more of organic residues such as lawn clippings, rotten leaves, or well rotted manure into the top 4 to 6 inches of soil. Before planting mix about 3 pounds of 10-10-10 or equivalent fertilizer per 100 square feet of soil.
You can probably get by adding readily available kiddie pool sand to your mix and maybe some perlite combined with a fresh decent compost and some of the soil you remove from the hole when you re-dig deeper.

More info at the above site.

If you don't dig it up, get a bottle of 3% hydrogen peroxide and pour it around the base of the plant. I think you are very close to having to deal with a failing root system if you aren't already.

Best wishes to you. Can't help you much more as I've no experience growing non-native cultivars of Rubus. Have "been there done that" before with plants I've tried to save so don't feel bad if this plant goes to Raspberry heaven.

damethod
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Thanks alot for all the advice and information. Hopefully, all this information leads to healthy raspberry plants. I guess it's simply trial and error from here...as with most things in life.

Big John
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Okay newbie question I have three varieties of raspberries and blackberries I started with four plants 3 years ago. Now I have 24 they are going crazy. One we have even named Vlad the Impaler It is 6ft tall and 4 feet in diameter. I have cut them back and even mowed them down but they are spreading like crazy anybody have an idea to slow the spread.

damethod
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The only suggestion I can offer is to bury some kind of border along the area you wish them to grow in. The border would have to penetrate at least six inches down to keep them from spreading, but I would go at least 1 ft deep. Wood, plastic, or metal are your best bet. Fabric will tear over time.

Also, remove any unwanted babies that sprout from the ground.

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hendi_alex
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I planted my raspberry plants in 4 x 8 foot frames, placing two plants in each 4 x 4 section. The plants are going crazy as someone said, and there is room for nothing else in the raised beds that are sitting on top of weed guard fabric. This year I'm constructing 3 foot by 3 foot raised boxes, one for each raspberry plant. Those boxes will be three feet apart in one direction and four feet apart in the other direction. Will see if that arrangement makes some kind of order out of those wild and crazy canes. This spring, we will place some kind of frame over each planting box to try and force the canes to stay more vertical. Will update with photos and results next spring and summer.
Eclectic gardening style, drawing from 45 years of interest and experience. Mostly plant in raised beds and containers primarily using intensive gardening techniques.
Alex

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Diane
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My bushes will take over my whole yard if I let them. I built a kind of fence with four pieces of wood to hold them back from my blueberry plant.
I also use twine to hold the top part of the canes up and tie it from the fence to a metal pole on the other side. I have to make two more fences. :shock:
The little sticks they were 3 or 4 years ago are now patches 10x10 and 6 x 4.
Even after cutting the top off of each cane to encourage branching they're still growing too long and touching the ground. I have pulled up suckers ten and twenty feet away.
All that said, I love these plants and they produce so many raspberries that I look for people to give them to. :lol:
Gardens are a little bit of heaven on earth.

https://s600.photobucket.com/albums/tt87 ... G00047.jpg

JONA878
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The best way of controlling excess growth in raspberries is to pull the new young spawn by hand in the spring time as it grows.
Digging it out never seems to work as well.
In Primo cane types( Autumn rasps.). the cane can be left in solid rows and just cut down each year after fruiting, but in the summer fruiting varieties it pays to keep the growng heads devided by a foot or so and restricted to eight canes per plant to get the best fruit and good return cane.
The new growth can then be restricted and good light allowed to fall on it to get better cane ' ripening ' for return fruiting bud.

Jona.
An apple a day.....keeps me in work.

Pippin Limbertwig
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Raspberries in VA

I don't know what triggers raspberries to flower - if it's day length or chill hours I don't think they'll fruit in Miami. :(

We had a good raspberry year. It was cooler and wetter than usual. We started 2.5 years ago in fall with 5 plants in 1 gallon containers. I didn't have time to get a bed ready when I brought them home so I plunged the pots. I've gone back and pulled the weeds - but never did move them. They are planted on a SE slope - they are in shade by late afternoon in the summer.

The first fall I ate a few berries in the garden. The second year I shared a few with my husband - no berry reached the kitchen. This third season we ate a cup to a quart of berries daily for 5 weeks and I have 2.5 gallons in the freezer. Their bed is about 3 feet x 8 feet.

They like a higher pH than blackberries (I am told) so they get hardwood ashes from the fireplace - I throw composted manure and old hay at their bases in the fall. I leave the volunteers in the row - each cane only fruits once. The volunteers in the path get moved - not too many survive my transplanting. I'm transplanting some to any even shadier spot and others to an open fenceline.

If they get really out of control I'll let a goat loose for a couple of hours. :lol: I'm putting in posts at the corners of the bed and wires at 3 and 4 feet from the ground - next year I'll tuck them behind the wires so they don't droop into my paths.
Pippin Limbertwig

"Let us watch our beginnings, and the results will manage themselves." Alexander Clark

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