Planting Distance for Raspberries and Blackberries?

[Rogue11]

Last week while at the nursery to pick up some potting soil we also bought some Raspberry (Can Be Red from Monrovia) and Ollalie Blackberry plants.

I do have a nice place in the garden for them that gets sun from early morning until late afternoon but being really new to berries I have no idea what else they might need (soil requirements etc). For the moment I have just put them in larger pots so that I have some time to research and prepare the beds.

Also I just red Blackberries and Raspberries not to put together, but how far apart should they be?
My plan is: we have a raised concrete patio area in the garden with a shade structure overhead and flower beds around. during the winter we took out the flowers and decided we will put bushes in instead that will climb up trellises and provide some shade for the patio. I built the trellises last weekend and attached them to the corner of the shade structure that gets the most sun. They are put up in a 90- degree angle to each other and I was thinking of planting the berries so that each will grow on one side.

Also, how are the pruning regiments different between black and raspberries?

Thanks.

[JONA878]

Hi Rogue
Although in theory blackberries could be used as a trellis shadeing ...I think it would call for a substancial amount of training through the year if you want to run it over the top as well.

Blackberries are inclined to romp away and need constant tying in and trimming if you want to keep them contained.

On the other hand Rasps would never grow high enough. Normally they reach around six- seven feet at best.

Raspberies.....two types. One crops on one year old cane ( Primocane or Autumn Raspberries)....the other on two year old cane ( Floricane)
The first can be cut down each year the other has to have cropping cane left for the following year.
Cane that has cropped on both types is removed after cropping.

Blackberries can be left to do their own thing if you have plenty of room...but in your case where you want strict control the best method is as follows.
After planting let the new cane grow and tie in over your trellis so that there is plenty of room to get at the fruit.
On the second year leave these canes in place just trimming back to control the excess growth.
Dureing this second year the plants will produce new cane. Tie this out of the way along a low wire or similar as it grows. ( Don't let it get mixed in with the old cane that you are cropping as it will be a devil to sort out come the winter.)
At the end of the season cut out all the old cropping cane and tie this new cane up onto the trellis.
Repeat the process each year.
This keeps the cropping cane young and tangle free.

Hope that helps a little.

[Rogue11]

Thank you very much, Jona. This was really helpful.

Yes, I wasn't panning on having them grow past 6 feet (in fact that's how high the trellises are) since I wouldn't want the berries to grow where we can't reach them.

How would I know what kind of Raspberry I have? the name is Rubus idaeus 'Canby Red' and on the growers website it says:"...Train one-year-old canes on trellis, prune canes that have fruited. " Does that suggest it is the type that grows on 1 year old canes?

So at the end of the season always cut last years canes and let this years grow. Got it. Is it easy to tell them apart? Or should I maybe use different colored ties each year to not accidentally cut the wrong canes?

Any suggestion about Soil ph level, fertilizing and mulching?

Thanks again.

[JONA878]

Hi Rogue.
Canby is a Froricane sort. So it will crop on canes in their second year.
You can tell at a glance which are the old canes that need to be pruned out. The new canes will be green and lightly straw coloured , where the old canes will be much darker and of course they will still have the remains of the fruiting stalks etc where they carried the crop.
It's a thornless rasp. so should be easier to handle than a lot.

Rasps tolerate fairly wide ph levels but as near to neutral as possable for best results.
They like plenty of water but hate to have their feet in standing water. So soil needs to be well drained. Mulching helps hold moisture in hot weather. Fertiliser....a dressing of a good balanced fert in the spring is helpfull and a summer dressing of high Potash fert prior to cropping helps the fruiting.
For organic feeding ..liquid seaweed solution is a good product as it seems to have all the main ingrediants including a lot of trace elements.

[gumbo2176]

I put in 4 thornless blackberry plants in Jan. 2011 and this is the year I will get to harvest fruit off the canes that grew last year. The trellis I built for them is 12 ft. long by 8 ft. high and they pretty much filled it out last year. So far this year the older canes are blooming with tons of new growth, lots of flowers and small berries forming for what should be a nice crop of fruit.

They do require a good bit of training as they grow since each cane sends off newer canes that need to be woven into the trellis and tied off. This year I've noticed dozens of new canes popping up from the roots all along the ground under the trellis, and by the time I cut the canes that will produce fruit this year, I'll have tons of new ones taking their place for next years crop.

[gumbo2176]

Rolgue11, this is how I built my trellis. I used 3 pieces of 2x4x10 treated and 4 pieces of 2x4x12 treated. I buried the 2x4x10 in the ground 2 ft. deep to form the uprights, one on each end and one in the middle. I then ripped the 2x4x12 in half to make 8 2x2x12. I then placed the first 2x2 approximately 1 ft. off the ground and screwed it to the uprights and each successive 2x2 was secured at 1 ft. intervals up the support posts alternating between the front and back of the upright.

The 1 ft. intervals between the horizontals give me plenty of room to get at the canes to tie them off and later prune them out and it will allow me plenty of room to harvest the fruit this summer. I would not use any type wire for a trellis since the canes do get to be pretty substantial in size and pruning them out later would be a much bigger job.

[gumbo2176]

Rolgue11, this is how I built my trellis. I used 3 pieces of 2x4x10 treated and 4 pieces of 2x4x12 treated. I buried the 2x4x10 in the ground 2 ft. deep to form the uprights, one on each end and one in the middle. I then ripped the 2x4x12 in half to make 8 2x2x12. I then placed the first 2x2 approximately 1 ft. off the ground and screwed it to the uprights and each successive 2x2 was secured at 1 ft. intervals up the support posts alternating between the front and back of the upright.

The 1 ft. intervals between the horizontals give me plenty of room to get at the canes to tie them off and later prune them out and it will allow me plenty of room to harvest the fruit this summer. I would not use any type wire for a trellis since the canes do get to be pretty substantial in size and pruning them out later would be a much bigger job.