Design assistance needed

[Love my garden]

Hi Everyone,

I have a 22' X 4' area that I would like to plant some fruit trees. It is currently populated with cannas, an ornamental banana and a extra, extra large bird of paradise. This area is on the east side of my garage and from the west there is nothing tall enough to obstruct the sun.

I have in pots a Fuji apple - semi dwarf, a dwarf meyer lemon and a fruiting banana plant (unknown). I have a peach tree purchased at Costco last year already planted in the ground in another area. I plan to purchase a mango tree and another apple.

With all of the tropicals removed, how many trees can I safely plant in this area (22 X 4)? I may train all or just two of them to grow flat. The banana will probably be planted along with the cannas, etc. Can I get 4 to grow and be healthy?

Thanks

[CharlieBear]

It depends on what size trees you are talking about. If you are talking patio dwarfs the type that do fine in pots quite a few. If full size maybe none if that 4 feet is near the foundation of the house. If you set up for espalier using m-27 size dwarfs you could probably put 4 in a straight line. Remember some trees need as second variety close by to set fruit so say you were talking apples and pears only you could have two compatable apples and two compatible pears. Four feet wide is really too little for even a semi-dwarf because of the garage foundation. Most mangos have a large root system, so probably not their. The dwarf Meyer probably fine. As far as growing fruit trees flat almost any fruit tree can be, if you pick the right espalier type. Remember, espalier is a lot of extra work. Before you try it you need to read up on it. Keep the trellis at least 8-10 inches away from the foundation, the tree needs air and you need to be able to prune it many times a year. There is formal and informal espalier. Formal takes years and a lot of dedication. Informal reduces the types of fruit trees you can use successfully. Do a lot of reading first and consider contacting your local extention for advice first.

[Love my garden]

It depends on what size trees you are talking about. .

2 Semi-dwarf apples. I have a Fuji now and plan to buy a Braeburn.

Four feet wide is really too little for even a semi-dwarf because of the garage foundation. Most mangos have a large root system, so probably not their. .

I have not purchased the mango and from what you have said, that is now on hold. I need to research a lil more and then see if it would be best behind the garage. The garage is resting on a slab, so not much of a foundation.

As far as growing fruit trees flat almost any fruit tree can be, if you pick the right espalier type. Remember, espalier is a lot of extra work. Before you try it you need to read up on it. Keep the trellis at least 8-10 inches away from the foundation, the tree needs air and you need to be able to prune it many times a year.

Yes I need to research more. My yard gets a breeze all the time so if plant items correctly, air circulation is not a concern. Informal was what I was considering but I see more reading is needed.


If I plant two apples here, can I prune the branches next to the wall more extensively and let the branches facing west grow more freely? Almost like a lop-sided tree sort of.

Thanks for the response and information to consider. I off to check out caring for semi-dwarf fruit trees and espaliers.

[bwhite829]

I was reading about high density planting by I think its wilson nurseries...its basically an idea of planting 3-4 semidwarf to regular bare root fruit trees of different varieties in the same hole and just keeping them pruned to an easily manageable height. ie...3-4 varoius apple varieties that meet crosspollination requirements and ripen at different times...this way instead of having one huge fruit tree with more fruit than you can eat ripening at one time, you have a full season of fruit with interspersed ripening. sounds like a good idea, and I'll try it once I actually have land for trees.

[JONA878]

Hi LMG.
If you want something really low why not try a border of 'Step over' Apple Trees.
With a 9 rootstock and planted at a 45degree angle they make a super edging and leave the centre area free to put in either a specimen fruit tree or something ornamental.
All it requires is some low posts with a strong top wire to train the trees centre leader to all at knee hight.
Use tip growers if possable as they will spur up more readily and require less skill in their pruning.

[bwhite829]

Hi LMG.
If you want something really low why not try a border of 'Step over' Apple Trees.
With a 9 rootstock and planted at a 45degree angle they make a super edging and leave the centre area free to put in either a specimen fruit tree or something ornamental.
All it requires is some low posts with a strong top wire to train the trees centre leader to all at knee hight.
Use tip growers if possable as they will spur up more readily and require less skill in their pruning.

this is also something I've been researching....look up espallier. it seems fairly straightforward if you have any pruning experience(which I have none whatsoever, and it seemed very easy to me)

[DeborahL]

Jona, my next door neighbor has a low chill apple in the original nursery pot, never prunes or feeds, and every year he gets a few apples.
How could this apple do so well on such neglect?

[JONA878]

This just shows Deborahi how tough plants can be.
In fact apples are not great users of nutrients and can survive very harsh conditions.
The most important aim in a fruit trees life is to procreate. So if a tree thinks it's dying then it will flower and crop as much as it can. The fruit may not be very goood...but at least it is fruit.
That's why if a tree started to get out of hand the old method of getting it back into fruit was to either bark ring or root prune the tree. Shocking it back into production by damaging its feeding system.
If you look at many garden trees the pain reason they are not doing their best for their owners is that they are out of control and in fact doing too well.

[DeborahL]

This makes sense. Now that I think of it, old mulberries, walnuts, and in my area, oranges, thrive on neglect. Not avocados though.
I guess I thought that apple trees need special attention-pruning and so forth.
We have a mountain community near that is famous (locally) for apples, it's called Julian.
From your knowledgeable posts, I'm guessing you're an apple farmer? Is that called an orchardist?

[JONA878]

[quote="DeborahL"]This makes sense. Now that I think of it, old mulberries, walnuts, and in my area, oranges, thrive on neglect. Not avocados though.
I guess I thought that apple trees need special attention-pruning and so forth.
We have a mountain community near that is famous (locally) for apples, it's called Julian.
From your knowledgeable posts, I'm guessing you're an apple farmer? Is that called an orchardist?[/quote]

I've been called many things Deb.


Fruit growers can just be Fruit Growers.....Orchadists...or if you want to be very posh....Pomologists.

[JONA878]

Should of course have added here that although neglected trees may well crop Deb.....the fruit will not exactly be the best quality.
By nature apple trees have to be persuaded to give us large, quality , fruits.
Leave a tree to its own devises and the fruit would get gradually smaller and rougher. All the tree wants is to get its seed spread with as little energy loss as possable.
Look at wild fruit trees in hedges and woods. Plenty of fruit ...but all pretty poor to what we look on as good eating apples.

To get the best fruit, trees have to be looked after and nurtured. Good pruning and growth control has to be done to get the best.
Like most things ....you get out what you are prepared to put in.

[DeborahL]

Great reply, Jona !
Pomologist... Hmmmm... I think I'd prefer orchardist !