Paw Paw. Can you grow it in clumps??

[Ozark Lady]

Hey the soil here is clay. Which means drainage isn't so great... but with all the rocks here, it makes a path for drainage.
Maybe you should put rocks in the bottom?

[planter]

Ozark Lady!!!! The one thing I can tell you without question is that I have ROCK!! Big ones and millions of what we call potato stones. Softball size to ones large that require pry bars and knowledge of the use of a mattock.. New England is known for it's stone walls for a reason.

I think I should build up the height of the hole and surrounding area rather than digging deeper into subsoil/clay/hard pack/caleche.. ARG!!

I may just use a sledge hammer to drive a prybar a couple of feet though the bottom of the hole in a couple of dozen places and add lots of Gypsum or MAYBE crushed drywall as well as a few five gallon buckets of VERY strong turkey turkey doo tea and a couple of BIG dogfish for good measure!!!

I can beat his hole. I can beat this hole. I can beat this hole...

Anyway if PAW PAW dose not like it there are other things... I just hate trial and error when it come to trees.

[applestar]

FWIW -- two fruit trees that I know of that will take to clay soil and wet feet are persimmons and plums. Winterberry and inkberry can handle it well too....

[planter]

Persimmons you say applestar ?? I do have a chocolate that WAS supposed to be self fertile and I have two other asian persimmons in the nursery doing fine.
Problem is I just don't know what exactly I have in the nursery and if they will fertilize the Chocolate...
I had a Meader's Persimmon which is self fertile and produced small but tastey fruits but when I moved out of that house the new homeowner cut it down along with so many other fine trees and shrubs.
I will have to do some more research on whether both the American and Asian persimmons enjoy or at least tolerate wet feet...TY.

[Ozark Lady]

The smell of bananas filled the air. It is time! Time to raid the paw paw tree, before the animals of the forest do!

The small tree, with the two tops right here in the forest garden, yielded these:

[img]https://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww281/Ozark_Lady/100_2967_phixr.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww281/Ozark_Lady/100_2963_phixr.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww281/Ozark_Lady/100_2965_phixr.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww281/Ozark_Lady/100_2964_phixr.jpg[/img]

Some are ripe, and some need to set on the counter for a bit.
But, you just don't know until you touch them, if you wait for the color change, it just might be too late!
Hubby sampled one, and was impressed, I sampled one and yuck...bitter, we decided mine was likely overripe... not good!
But, there are plenty left to find the best tastes!
Overripe were still harvested and brought home...
Because some folks want some seeds! I think we might find a seed or two!
Please, make sure that I know who wants some seeds, they will be gradually harvested as the fruits ripen.

[Ozark Lady]

I am glad that I watched this video before extracting the seeds...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkeYcwTIygo&feature=related

Apparently, they need to be kept moist. So, no letting them dry out on the counter. At least that is how I take what is said here.

So, to play it safe, I will dry half and keep half of them moist... just in case the moist ones mold... and just in case dry is bad... hmm

It says Guerneys on the video, perhaps they would know.

[bangstrom]

I read somewhere that pawpaw seeds are harmed if their moisture content drops below 30% or if their temperature gets below -5 degrees F. Seeds in northern climates need the protection of being buried in the ground and covered with snow to survive the winter if planted outside. Cold stratification requires about 90 days of storage below 45 degrees F to break dormancy but some varieties get by with less. Seeds planted in the spring can germinate in as little as two weeks by sending out a tap root but it often takes about three months or longer for the first above ground growth to emerge.

[Ozark Lady]

I have the seeds in a baggy, and I put the peels back in with them, so they are staying damp.

I read somewhere that you can give them a bleach bath, and then rinse and keep them in a baggy with just moist paper towels. I wonder if that would be a good idea? Pawpaw are not subject to pests or disease.

I even wondered if I should ferment them, since they would ferment if left in the fruit to self sow..

[Ozark Lady]

Interesting...

Another wonderful aspect to the pawpaw is the Zebra Swallowtail Eurytides marcellus. The Zebra Swallowtail lays its eggs on the under sides of the pawpaw leaf, and the larvae feed exclusively on the leaves after hatching. So now you know how to attract this beautiful butterfly to your own garden.

[bangstrom]

You have a nice looking bunch of fruit!

Some recommend washing the seeds in bleach diluted 1/10 but I like your fermenting idea better. Fermentation removes the carbohydrates that promote mold growth and it certainly can't hurt. I have had good luck stratifying my seeds in moist vermiculite with a small amount of well rotted leaf litter from the forest floor where the pawpaws grow or find some composted wood chips. There are good fungi and bad fungi and the good ones are called mycorrhiza. They protect the seeds and roots from diseases in the soil and they also work like root hairs to improve absorption of nutrients. Most are associated with mushrooms so the soil from areas where mushrooms grow should have plenty of mycorrhiza. I like to collect organic material from shroomy looking spots as a natural source of mycorrhiza but you can also buy mycorrhiza from commercial suppliers.

[Ozark Lady]

I finally bit the bullet and just got the pawpaws all processed, the seeds are in to ferment.

I never did find a truly good recipe for pawpaw preserves, so I just kind of 'winged it'.

When I processed them, I actually got more seeds than pulp, I suppose that partly is from the drought?

I even saved the peels, if the twig tips are good to get rid of bugs, how much would the peels do? I don't know, but I am going to ferment them, and try them out on some stinging caterpillars!

I had to put lemon juice on the pulp as I processed it, to prevent browning much like apples or bananas do.
Quite a slow process, I see clearly why, they are mostly eaten fresh!
I had done 5-6 previously and not a big deal for a loaf of 'banana bread'.
But with a huge bowl full, it was a major project.

I cooked them a bit and tasted... wow the bitter after taste was quite apparent. So, I looked up how to deal with that.
It said salt, sour, and sweetening would deal with it.
Okay, I sprinkled some salt on them, more sugar, another TSP of lemon juice, and warmed it up tasted again. I kept doing this until most of the bitterness was not apparent.

I decided to really play on the banana flavor, I found that I had 5 frozen bananas (I freeze them for making smoothies) and I added these to it.
Then I got out the Sure gel, since there is no pectin in pawpaw and bananas. It needed 5 cups of sugar. I had added 2 cups already.
I cooked it down a bit, then I mixed the Surejel with some water, and added it to the pulp. I boiled it, then, I dumped in 4 more cups of sugar, to be sure there was plenty in there to gel this concoction.

While I was filling the canning jars, I had hubby taste test... he said it tastes like "peaches". Whoa wait a minute, peaches? I took pawpaw, lemon juice, banana, and salt and made peach jam?
But, he is right, it tastes just as much like peaches as it does pawpaws, banana or lemons! How weird!

This morning I checked out my jars, they are pretty, not really gelled, kind of like applesauce in color and texture. My camera is on loan for a bit, so no photos. But I got 14 half pints done!

Now on to the seeds. I have a huge bowl of them to ferment.
Anyone want some speak up now...
I am going to process about half for in frig storage to send to folks.
The other half, I am going to dry out.
Then I am going to try to grind them in my blender.
I read that Native Americans used them to get rid of head lice!

Wonder how they would work on fleas? I do plan to grind them, and have them on hand to try them on various vermin issues. If the grandkids come home with head lice, it would be a less toxic way of dealing with them. We normally do alot of hot oil treatments, and blow drying of their hair to prevent an infestation but, you just never know when that won't be enough and they will get head lice. I have the seed, so why not try?

I also plan to go harvest some twig tips and boil these up into some insecticide. Hey they will soon go dormant anyhow. Worth a try!

I feel like a 'mad scientist'.

Suggestions and cautions welcome.

[Ozark Lady]

Here is Pawpaw/banana butter:
[img]https://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww281/Ozark_Lady/100_3023_phixr.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww281/Ozark_Lady/100_3024_phixr.jpg[/img]

I have the seeds in fermenting... now on to other things...

[rainbowgardener]

Oh yum! beautiful!

[applestar]

I have three Paw Paw trees. Two Seedling trees I had bought and planted first, then Ozark Lady sent me some seeds and I managed to get one to grow. it looks like this post from May, 2014 is the most recent reference: Subject: Edible Landscaping the Front Yard Fence Row -- 2014 plans

I have a space in my front yard I call my "Project Edible Landscape: Front Yard Fence Row" -- FYFR for short. I have posted photos in a previous year in this thread. Snapshots of my Edible Landscape/Mini-forest Garden: Updates

There have been some changes since then. For one thing, there's "Paw and Paw and Baby Paw" planted in front of it. "Baby Paw" was grown from seeds that were given to me by a member here.

....

Today, I noticed that one of the bigger Paw Paw has BLOOMED with a flower and also has two more flower buds!

[tomc]

All of my opinion is anectdotal, and is therefore a quart light of science. Pawpaw produces best if it is grown in colonies, and thinned to eight to twelve feet spacing. I suspect the past hand of man in thinning when you stumble onto an untended patch.

The need for shaded seedlings is overstated. The need for supplimental water is more real than needed partial shade.

Pawpaw do not like their feet fiddled with. Collect-transplant seedlings while they are dormant. Pawpaw was one of my 'round tuit' bonsai projects. An, I killed a mess of them trying.

[Delvi83]

I think they can.....in the wild it happens.
For the commerzalitation I don't know why they're not spread in all supermarket.....I don't believe it's only for the fact that you must hand them with care, even Figs or Persimon are very damageable.

The problem is that Paw Paw has a fantastic flavor only if in the corret ripening period....after that the bitterness prevails over the other tastes. Moreover the harvest lasts for more than one month and you can't pick up them in one time.

[Rose bloom]

They ripen quickly, and by the time they reach the supermarket, they're already squished and mushy.

[klatwork]

The smell of bananas filled the air. It is time! Time to raid the paw paw tree, before the animals of the forest do!

.

The ones I had in Niagara Falls Canada smelled nothing like bananas...
They smelled exactly like Mango......and tasted like Cherimoya/Sugar apples...
they were not custdard, but a soft, less acidic mango..

[applestar]

I would LOVE to try growing both types! My littles ones finally started blooming this year -- 3 blossoms on just one of the three trees... No fruit set. Maybe next year, I'll find what aroma/flavor I have.