Ping The Helpful Gardener and/or applestar

[The Helpful Gardener]

Apple seeds need a really good scarification to get through that tough poisonous seed coat. Keep that in mind...

HG

[Ozark Lady]

Okay, I am confused.

Not by these posts, but by some other posts, I don't recall where I read them.

The person was talking about storing seeds in the freezer.

Anyhow, they said, seeds are not really cold stratified, if they are stored dry in a freezer.

An apple kept in a cooler would be damp cold, I get that.

But, do you need to plant the seeds in soil, and then put them in the fridge? And for how long?

What exactly does qualify as stratifying seeds? How long?
Thanks.

[JONA878]

I guess that best way of describing what is required by the apple seed is to look at what would happens to it in nature.
The seed is designed to survive the journey through an animals gut and then lie in the soil until gemination. It's tough.

In our orchards , although we have countless thousands of fruits fall to the ground, we find very few seedlings.

The best method I have found is one that I was shown years ago. First make sure that the apple is left on the tree until fully ripe and the seed as mature as possable, then let the apple rot naturaly. Whether this acts on the seed case I don't know but it seems to give a better result.
Then put the seed into damp peat in a plastic bag and store in a fridge for six weeks.
Then plant in a pot in a warm place.
You should not expect more than a 30% germination at best though.

Jona.

[rainbowgardener]

But note that HG said scarified not stratified. Scarification is weakening the tough seed coat to give the embryo within a chance to open out. It's meant to simulate some of what happens to the seed going through an animals gut.

It can be done mechanically by rasping the seed coat with sandpaper or rasp. It can be done by soaking the seed in hot (not boiling!) water for awhile or it can be done by soaking the seed in vinegar for a few hours. Any of these treatments should help increase the germination rate.

[applestar]

I eat the apple, break open the core, and poke the seeds around the base of indoor plants. Sometimes they sprout. These two in the Jalapeno pot is 2 out of 5 'Pink Lady' apple seeds and I pulled out one, so germination was 3 out of 5. The one out in the vegetable garden probably came from the compost. The one in the container outside grew out of an indoor container last winter (I remember posting about that).

Give it a try.

p.s. Maybe Jalapeno is a good companion. I noticed Solanacea weeds always grow well around the apple tree and the the blackberries. In fact, I'm turning an old blackberry patch into a tomato garden this year, and am planning to plant some hot peppers around my 'Enterprise' apple tree in a guild.

[rainbowgardener]

I like the idea of a guild, but do your peppers really get enough sun, planted near the apple tree?

[applestar]

Well, I was thinking about that -- don't want to dig up the apple tree roots either, you know? So I think I'll plant the peppers on the South side just beyond the drip line.

[Jbest]

The temperature to day was in the high 50s with lots of sunshine. A beautiful day to be outside pruning apple trees. The trees have been producing fewer and fewer apples the last several years and I have learned that a hard prune may bring back the production. Well I did what I think is a hard prune and the wife and neighbors probably think I killed the tree. It has been said that you should be able to throw a cat through the tree without hitting any branches. Well I could throw several cats through the tree. It is also said not to expect many apples the first year after a hard prune (no kidding). The next photo is after the prune. We will see what happens next. John
[img]https://www.jbest123.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/P3090001-560x420.jpg[/img]

[The Helpful Gardener]

Well you sure did go for it, John, but I think you did fine.

You will have to stay after those water sprouts this summer for sure, Dormant pruning can really stimulate a lot of new growth, so be ready for a pretty heavy prune in summer as well. But your tree will be much the better and produce that much longer for it...

HG

[Jbest]

HG I assume by water sprouts you mean the vertical growth. I have four more trees to do, do you see anything I should do differently? John

[Ozark Lady]

I am amazed to learn that you can prune in summer.
Even my damaged tree, I thought that I had to wait for winter!

[!potatoes!]

in general, winter pruning stimulates growth and summer pruning (after the main push of growth for the year has stopped) will have the opposite effect. something as ready to bolt for the sky as many pears I've seen, for instance, you'd definitely be better off pruning in summer to try to curtail the upward striving...this is mostly in reply to O.L.

to john - if you keep on the watersprouts (yeah, the vertical stuff) like h.g. says, that looks fine for a 'hard' prune.

[applestar]

There's a Japanese apple orchard website that has nice description of monthly orchard management activities. It's located in northern Honshu Island, which, by latitude, at least, is closer to my area, and despite the warming effect of the Ocean and the Japan Current, gets hit with severe winter weather roaring down from Siberia, so that I believe they might generally have a similar climate.

They "snap/pull off" the water sprouts in July. The orchard owner says it actually causes less damage than cutting.

[The Helpful Gardener]

Summer pruning is still kind of a newer technique, but I tried it with some trees this past year and it is simply good growth management. And John is exactly right, we are just going after that really apical type growth (the really upright stuff. If she looks like she is bearing hard I might do a little stubbing around the older growth, but again, only if there looks to be too much fruit. I'd rather let the tree rest after a really hard prune the first season than push it.

HG

[Jbest]

Today I finished the hard prune on my apple trees. I try to learn something new every day. What I learned on this job was, it's a job for a much younger man than me although it will never be required again in my life time. Tomorrow I will spray the trees with oil spray and again in a couple of weeks. I will spray them again with a GP spray before pink tip. After that I will prepare the new Orchard Bee nests and when the blossoms start to open, I will remove them from the fridge and turn them loose. I will suspend any spraying until the orchard/honey bees have disappeared. john
[img]https://www.jbest123.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/P3180001-560x420.jpg[/img]
[img]https://www.jbest123.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/P3180002-560x420.jpg[/img]