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applestar
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Best Japanese plum var. for umeboshi? plum wine?

May be I SHOULD have asked you folks here first... Originally posted under Growing and Caring for Fruit: https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7773

FYI: [url=https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2013.html]Japanese Plum (ume) Blossoms[/url] -- If you scroll down, there are links to Japanese gardens featuring ume.

I'm hoping to find varieties and sources in the U.S.
Domo arigato!

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Reptilicus
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You make you own Umeboshi? We usually get ours from teh market. I don't like them enough to go through the effort of making them. :lol:

I don't care for the wine its too sweet.

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applestar
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Well, I make a small batch when my parents have plums to spare so I'd like to grow my own... but no one else has responded so I guess I'll have to keep looking.

Umeboshi is supposed to be really good for you in the summer when you need to replenish salt and minerals after a day in the sun. Also, except for the small crunchy kind, which is actually sold in Japan individually wrapped as pick-me-up snacks, the soft meaty kind is only eaten a tiny bit at a time with a good mouthful of rice. Typically, it's mashed with soysauce (and sometimes bonito flakes) first. A teaspoonful is great in the middle of onigiri (fistful of rice squeezed into a triangular ball, often wrapped with nori (seaweed) so it's not sticky to hold --- quintessential Japanese picnic and bag-lunch food. Another favorite filling is well-salted broiled salmon.... I think I'll go cook some rice! :wink:

yama
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Hi
about ume
Ume is new way to pronance . When Japan was introdued to west late 1800's It was pronunced as mume back then. Many other plants exported from Japan has similar chenge, forexample "kwanzan" cherry tree, write kanzan now in Japan .
prunus mume has over 300 variety. it is devide two group "Hana ume " and "mi ume". Hana means flower and mi means fruit.
some vraiety called Ya bai which often use for stock to grafting . this is ofetn use for bonsai. many vaiety for fruit production are white single petal flower.

There are large fruit mume , small size which is size of thum nail to pinky nail. large and small ume use for umeboshi. large size ume use for plum wine. for the plume wine ,ume have to be no spot, not over ripen have to just right.
When you are planing to ume for umeboshi, you have to have " Aka shiso" to color umeboshi and add fravor to it as well.
To make pulm wine, you need to have rock suger and volka or shochu . many umeboshi are imported from Taiwan nowaday.

sap of umeboshi, bottom of container helps to stomach upset, hert burn and diarrea. also some people claim that umeboshi prevent cancer.
flowering pume have been cutivated for hundreds of years and many flowering ume lost abilty to produce fruit,
It is easy to propagete from cutting, airlayering, and from seed. seed have to be store cold tempreture for at least a month.
ume need to be prune every year. when you prune ume. you should to know which branch produce flower/fruit next year.
ume for fruit production, there are early bloomer, mid season bloomer and late bloomer.


I have more to write later. ( Cold beer is waiting for me) .
yama

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applestar
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Eagerly waiting for the next installment, yama-san :D

Here is a link to a description of an Armeniaca mume tree I found and planted. https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=87823#87823

More photos in that thread, but it looked like this last spring when it flowered:
[img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image3877.jpg[/img]

I have the photos of the fruits somewhere but I can't find it right now. I would call them "koume". I'm thinking they might make the hard, crunchy kind of umeboshi, but so far, the "harvest" has been only a handful. (about 3 or 4 last year, and about 5 or 6 this year).

FYI -- The variety my parents are using for making Umeshu is 'Shiro'. My Dad also makes Plum concentrate with the rejects.

yama
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Hi
I am drinking beer now and don't have reserch paper with me now 8)

Small ume is most likely " koshu koume" Koshu is name of place, today koshu is yamanashi prfecture west of Tokyo. Koume mean small ume.
Nanko is very popular for umeboshi. Nanko are growing Wakayama prefecture. Nanko is large fruit.
kaga, shiro kaga , mochida was poplar. If you live west coast, you can buy ume at store. I have a friend who run Japanese restaran at Thousand Oak, Cal she buy ume in box.
ume of 5 to 6 years old from seedling can produce fruit. if you feed then heavely.
I have reserch paper which conducted 1930 by Japanese resercher. it has very detail descreption of prunus mume.
I can't grow ume where I am now , I gave ume seedling 5~ 6 years ago to a friend who live in South Carolina, his ume is producing fruit now.

Did I answer to your question? Do you have any other question?
Thank you for beautifull photo. I am new to this website. but I kenw Scott past 6 ~7 yaers and Herb.

You are helping others so I help you. I am not trained to write English but well trained in my trade. :D
yama

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applestar
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Yes. I'm soaking up everything you said. Thank you very much! :D

I wonder if "shiro kaga" is in any way related to the Japanese plum "Shiro" that I bought for my parents from Miller Nurseries years ago. They use the ripe plums for making umeboshi.

Researching the best varieties on Japanese websites can be frustrating because even though, in Japan, they seem to have the "best" cultivars for each culinary use, most to none are available here in the United States. Perhaps their export is restricted as with Cherry trees, which you mentioned elsewhere.

Yama-san, you might be interested to know that my father grows yama-imo :wink: He brought me a handwritten list of organic fertilizers that someone in Japan mailed to him, and we deciphered it and found as close equivalents as we could around here. Over the years, he's experimented and is happy with the combination of products that he can obtain from a local feed store. He saves the little mukago from year to year and plants them in his backyard garden. We also enjoy the numerous mukago cooked in rice in the fall. He stores the harvested tubers in the ground (like jal_ut with his carrots). They tend to give more of the yamaimo tubers to my brother who enjoys them more than I do. I'm satisfied with an occasional treat, which suits them well since they like to give a lot of the potatoes away to their friends. :D

yama
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Hi
You can buy ume in USA. I think it is grown Washingto State or Oregon. Years ago I saw in Japanese grocery store ,Atlanta GA. MY frind who run Japanese restaurant at Thousand Oak ,Cal she said buy whole box of ume from whole sale grocer.
Because of your location, you need to have late bloom Ume. If you like to have seed, I can ask to my friend if he still have fruit on the tree.

Ask to your father if he would like to "fuki" I know fuki grow Masachussetts but not for sure if myoga survive z0ne 6 winter.
I borught Akita fuki and myoga and planted Korean temple's ground.
I am trying to propagate fuki. Korean people eat fuki.
Korean temple "Munsu sa" had fuki but growing poorly. I move to other locatin and feeding heavly and asking members of the temple do not harvest untill 2012.

I gave to my friend a small sansho tree whitch was female tree , he imported few snasho with were all male trees. so he can have seed every year.
I am not foe sure that sansho grow North shore of Masachussetts.
Say hello to your Dad.

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applestar
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Say hello to your Dad.
Thank you, I will.

There is a Buddhist temple in Seabrook where many relocated Japanese still live. Although it's a bit of a distance, my parents were active with them for a while and shared some interesting Japanese food plants with them.

So, they are growing Fuki and Myoga. They have a nice wooded sandy slope to the Northeast side that seems to provide a well protected micro-climate. Myoga is growing very well for them. Yama-san, when is the best time to divide some and transplant Myoga? I'd like to start a patch in my garden as well. I believe their Fuki wasn't very productive this past early spring, however.

They also have a Sansho tree that is taller than I am, though I didn't realize there are male and female plants. I don't know which they have. My mom is amazed (and relieved) that she doesn't have to worry about the local swallowtails laying eggs on it.

I would LOVE to try growing Ume from seed. I have been able to grow peach/nectarine from seed by sowing in a large nursery pot of soil and leaving in a protected location outside during winter. Would the same technique work for Ume as well? Please do ask your friend about procuring some seeds. Thank you. :D

yama
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Hi applestar
Sansho
In Atlanta,Gerogia or aroud Tokyo, sansho start bloom in april. Sory I can't discribe by text what female and male flower look like. Sansho seed mature by late september to early October, If seed stay on the tree untill winter,then germination rate drop drasticaly. As soon as soon seeds are mature,sow in graroud or keep seed in moist sand untill next spring.
just before frost, you can harvest leave and dry then in micro wave oven to dehydrate leave. You can use dried sansho leave for cooking or mix in with shichimi togarashi. I growed sansho with spine(toge ) and without spine. Sansho with spine has strong aroma and fravor.
It took me 10 years to lean how to propagate. Sansho is very difficult to propagate sansho from cutting. somehow I developed how to propagate from cutting.

How to propagate Fuki
After hard frost . you can dig up rizhome. when you cut rhizome in to small peices, make sure that you have one to two eye/node on each cuttings
If you are in NJ, end od winter early spring may be better.
I did in late fall in Gerogia.
Before you dig up fuki, prepare ground first. Add plenty of organic material and fertilizer. if you like to know what kind of fertilizer, I will answer other time. rhizome don't have to be deep. 1 inch of soil top of rhizome should be enought. to prevent soil errosion, cover with wheat straw or any kind mulching. you have many leave from garden, that should be ok. placeing fuki rhizome 10 to 12 inch part
First year Try not harvet any fuki , let's it gorw , let's fuki's rhizome mature. Third year, probably you harvest" Fuki no to" end of winter/early spring. Depend of how much of fertilizer applay, what kind. good ground preparation and fertilizer dictate how first Fuki grow following year
During wet year, Fuki do very well. Fuki do not produce seed, so divistion
is only way to propagate.( or tissue culture)
you can harvest end ob year, just before hard frost hit.

No secret to grow fuki, water, fertilize, water fertilize. more water and more fertilize. I grawed fiki ,sold to Japanese restaurant and food store. During peak time in summer I harvested 5,000 myoga every week to 10 day end of May to end of October.

If I miss any of your qustion . write me again. Happy to help
yama.



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