MrNorth
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Design and landscaping this view

I have a problem... at my backyard I ahve this disturbing view. And I really want to do something nice with this area... I ahve some ideas of my own byt I want som second opinions.

I talked to my friends, but tehy don't know jack a bout japanese gardens, hence thy thing I should keep the lawn and the view, and perhaps plant a hedge.

https://www.odla.nu/album/data/mrnorth/1431_p26445.jpg



what do u think?

/henrik

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Well, for starters, your friends may not be too off base. Every good Japanese garden is walled or fenced or hedged from the outside world. This is symbolic of the time in the garden being about seperation from the "real" world, but as you have noted, it can also block unwanted views.

Even the great stroll gardens are fenced, so think about a fence or hedge as the start of your garden, not something apart...

Scott

MrNorth
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ohayoo!

Well the main problem I have with a hedge is that

1) Behind the proposed hedge, there is a slope with 45 degree angle. Not easy to cut the hedge... (this you can't see on pics, sorry)

2) The lawn is green, and the hedle will be green. There won't be any balance in the scene.

If I choose hedge, then I ahve to be very careful about what kind I choose. And I need to do something with the view to make it more settling.

I have refined my pond further, I will post some more pics in this thread later!

matane
Henrik

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So many hedging items you may not get stuck with green (Prunus cistena, Physocarpus, etc. would give you a redder coloration...). That said, yews or Japanese holly would give a very dark green against grass. The Japanese garden is by nature a green place; flowering is a secondary thought and variation on green is much of the garden interest. Look over some of the photos in the links I left for Chisai and see what I mean; it is the form and texture that offers most of the visual interest in these gardens, not color, so don't let green on green scare you...

Still, a fence is nice, if expensive...

MrNorth
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the Physocarpus is a really nice idea!!! It is roughly 20 meters I need to hedge so I need about 60 plants. I just hope they like full sun...


About my pond... I'm constantly improving it, but I'm still having problems finding the correct tree to balance the pond. I have two acers, one red and one green on either side of the flowerbed to the left side of the pond. But I need a larger tree in the middle.... And I have NO IDEA what to use? I have these ideas:

Pinus: Very expensive to buy, can be found in the nature but hard to fins nice speciment.

Prunus: Nice looking tree, but I don't really like the character of the tree so close to a pond.

Salix: Nice trees that will probably look good! But which sort? There are lots and lots of willows


just some thoughts.... pics are on the way!

/Henrik

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Pinus: traditional next to water; tough to style on your own (rather technical to get that cloud pruned look), evergreen and very nice when right...

Cherry (Prunus): spring bloom, but not generally associated with a water feature...

Willow: cetrtainly associated with water but can really hunt it and break up ponds...

The maple will work with time, also traditional with water...

MrNorth
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Well some bad news :( The Physocarpus hedge was really expensive.... do you have any other ideas for a hedge that will look good up against a lawn?

About trees... I think I will plant a willow!!!! and japanese maples on the left and right, but at different distances


I added some fish in my pond.. its really nice. Sadly the water isnt clear so its hard to see them. I'm trying to make it clearer by using an additional filter. And I'm constantly adding underwater plants. I wanted to have afew lotus, but they can't survive in sweden :(

kind regards
Henrik

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Henrik, look for a flocculant to clear the water. It's a compound that causes particles to clump together and drop out of the water column. Makes nwer filters more effective, too...

As to the hedge, I stand by my take on green on green and tell you hedge (Ligustrum spp.) will be your cheapest bet...

Scott

MrNorth
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Hiya!

I have never heard of "flocculant". Can that be used with fish?? The reason the water is not clear is probably that I have constantly added more stones, and the rain does its share of washing small particles from the edges into the pond. With time this will solve I think. But I'm willing to try "flocculant". My father has worked with fish all his life (ponds and aquarium) and his advice is always not to use any unnatural ingredients...


About the hedge... I have neighbours both on teh left and right side of the garden. And on the right side we planted ligustrum last year... and just about all of my neighbours have also bought ligustrum... :( So thats why I was looking for something more diffferent and exotic. But you are right, it is cheap!!!


/Henrik

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Cheap is best sometimes, neh? :lol:

I have used flocculant in both aquarium and pond settings with no ill effect; the treatment is mechanical, not chemical, so I have no problem with it and it can be used with fish...

MrNorth
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What about the other kinds of spireae?

Spireae japonicum (green/red leaves and pinkish flowers)

or spireae vanhouttei (green leaves and white flowers)


Would that be acceptable? I haven't seen any of these in traditional japanese gardens.... :shock: They use camellia instead hehe... or a fence


/Henrik

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The former seems low to me and the latter seems...loose. Ilex crenata is the most tradtional hedge plant there, but hardiness would not be good for you...

How expensive is Taxus (yews)? VERY long lived...

Scott

MrNorth
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hi!!
Oh the yew is quite expensive. I came up with a good idea... the beech. IN sweden there is a particular kind of beech that is used for hedges. I think its called "hornbeam". It doesnt get that kind of geometric feeling like ligistrum but a more wild, rush appearance. Kind of like the camellia hedges I have seen in japanese gardens (except the flowers). If the price is ok, I will settle with that.

I seem to have little luck with maples. A few days ago I bought a green version of teh acer palmarum... and the leaves are already starting to crumble and turn yellow, like its drying.. but I give it water every day, and it is in full sun, like it said it could on the label. We haven't had any cold evenings... the lowest is +5. Its strange....


kind regards
Henrik

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Full sun is NOT a preference for Japanese maples; they much prefer partial shade. Could be leaf scorch; look for bronzed areass on the leaf...

Hornbeams are Carpinus spp. and yes we use them for hedges too. If that's cheap it would work o.k., but gets so tall that any "borrowed" scenery would be screened. Don't let it get too tall...

MrNorth
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Oh!!

In my garden I have two "Garnet" in partial shade and they are looking nice! But I also wanted maples around my pond (which has sun from 9 am to 7 pm) and I found this green acer palmatum. And on the label it said "full sun to partial shade"... and of course I was extremly happy... but now one week after it looks terible.. the leaves are turning yellow and ugly.. :cry: :cry: :cry:

I'm not sure what to do with it, return it or move it. I asked in the nursery and they agreed it could be planted in full sun...

I will provide you with pics as soon as my friend return the usb cable to the digital camera ;)

happy gardening!
Henrik

MrNorth
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Hi again!

Here are some pics I promised:

The front of the garden
I want to do something special in this flowerbed on the lower right
https://www.odla.nu/album/data/mrnorth/1431_p27370.jpg

When you move closer to the gate you see the tsukubai on the left

https://www.odla.nu/album/data/mrnorth/1431_p27369.jpg


When you enter the gate you see this view
https://www.odla.nu/album/data/mrnorth/1431_p27373.jpg

And turning to the right you see this, the deck and a flowerbed with azalea and magnolia:

https://www.odla.nu/album/data/mrnorth/1431_p27368.jpg


Then you move between the pond and wood deck to teh opposite side of teh garden, and turn around:

https://www.odla.nu/album/data/mrnorth/1431_p27366.jpg


Turning to the left watching the deck

https://www.odla.nu/album/data/mrnorth/1431_p27367.jpg

Thats about it... I have more views but I will save them until later...

Now some pics of some problems I have with plants, perhaps someone knows what it is...


On my palmatum (garnet) I found this... what is it?
https://www.odla.nu/album/data/mrnorth/1431_p27372.jpg


This is now my green maple looks like!!!
https://www.odla.nu/album/data/mrnorth/1431_p27371.jpg

And whats wrong with my bamboo???????
https://www.odla.nu/album/data/mrnorth/1431_p27365.jpg



Here you ahve heaps of pictures to look at.. hopefully you also have some suggestions on how to improve it further... PLease feel free to sketch at the pics... drawing advices, arrows whatever ;)


kind regards
Henrik

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While we could talk all day about what you COULD do with the landscape (a service I am used to being well paid for :wink: ) let's look at the problems...

The red maple could simply be freeze/thaw damage to the bark on the tree, or (and I suspect) it is that followed by a fungal disease that is causing weeping and the attendant fungus on the surface. A systemic fungicide is probably in order...

The other two are easy; that is leaf scorch on the green maple; it needs more shade...the bamboo has a little frost damage and the dead foliage is getting some mildew on it. A little fungicide (non-systemic) here...

Scott

MrNorth
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Thanks for the tip!! I will see what I can do about the fungus!

About the other pics, you did ask for more pics ;) Then its up to you how much help/suggestions you want to provide for free... :) I know that a professional architect cost heaps of cash, but thats not what I want. I like to do the planning, designing myself, but once in a while its good to have some trained eyes to look at the result and comment it. Thats what I wanted with the pics... Not a detailed garden schematic :lol:


kind regards
Henrik

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And this I am happy to do for you, Henrik :D

MrNorth
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Thank you!

What I would like advice on is what to do with the back yard... I think there is too much lawn. I wanted to create a sand garden in one corner, but the problem is that I have no way to transport heavy rocks there... and a sand garden without biiig rocks is boring...

In the middle of that sandgarden I planned to create a small island, with lawn, some stone, a pine, maple... and a lapanese lantern... and some bamboo in the back, behind the sand and island....

but this is a daring project... aspecially since it involves a lot of money. And I'm not sure if the end result will look like... if it will fit in the overall picture...


also, I want to add bamboo fences, or anything designed using bamboo... can u fins somewher eon my pics where bamboo can be applicable?


kind regards - I hope I don't ask too specific questions....

/henrik

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You are correct on ALL counts, Henrik...

You do need bigger rock for a garden your size; anything smaller would get lost.

The design concept sounds good, but...

Bringing us to that third point (and fourth), expense.

The bamboo (either plants or fences) does not come cheap, nor does moving big rocks, doing a properly drained karesansui feature, or virtually any other feature that you are going to do in a Japanese style. It IS an expensive and high maintenance style that does not fit every situation. You should plan very carefully before launching into this, or as I do, move slowly and consider the results little by little, changing and refining as you go.

My new garden is a year old and the stones are not yet set; I am seeing how the plants come in this year before I do. The fence will be in a year or two and I will tackle the tea house in year three or four. It looks very disheveled right now; hopefully in a few weeks it will be much more settled, but I am not rushing it. This garden will find it's own pace and it's own style; I'm just along for the ride :wink: .

So if you are still not sure about this or that, set some stakes out in the yard. Put lawn furniture in the spots where you want rocks; move them around until it looks good from everywhere. You will not make mistakes if you move slower every time you get unsure; patience is a necessity here...

Scott

MrNorth
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May we see some pictures of your garden, please? It would be interesting to see how a master proceeds... In the books, all "how to" sections are so perfect and idealized.. not like the real world I think.... They never tackle any "real" problems...
/Henrik

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My Japanese garden is a recent "transplant"; I moved last year, just heeled the plants in really and did not "finish" the garden until just two weeks ago. It still needs moss (the gardener needs time to collect the moss :lol: ) so it's not ready just yet. But very soon, I promise...

I will say I am very happy with the way it is developing :D ...

Scott

MrNorth
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Hi!

That sounds really exciting! Do you have any kind of water element?

Also, how large is your property? Mine, including the house is 1100 m2

Anyway, I'm off now to construct a true sukiya-mon as an entrance.

Do you have any clue how the japanese solved the garden gate locking-closing problem? The door must be made so it can be opened from two directions... a locking bolt on the inside is not enough... not is a simple piece of string.

/Henrik

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The property is about the size of yours, but the J-garden is only about 100m sq. Netsunabe-bachi is the only water feature although there is a karesansui area.

As for the gate, I don't know, but there are a few capentry types hanging about gardenweb.com' s Jgarden forum who might...

Scott

MrNorth
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Here is my gate, I posted some pics in my thread there:

[img]https://www.odla.nu/album/data/mrnorth/full_1431_p30788.jpg[/img]

[img]https://www.odla.nu/album/data/mrnorth/full_1431_p30787.jpg[/img]


It wasnt that hard to make, and I think you can do much better job!

/Henrik

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Very Nice Indeed! :D

hg

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Well you humbled me into 1) mossing the garden and 2) learning to post photos, so here are some of the Japanese Garden. The cement pad used to be a chicken coop and will someday be the site of my tea house, but we have obviously made good New England use of it (note the Adirondack chairs) in the mean time. Still some tweaking to do: I am not happy with the hosta behind the netsunabe-bachi and am eye-balling Sasa tsuboiana to take it's place, but the bones are good and we love the maple. It's a nice place to have a gin and tonic and someday maybe a cup of tea...
[img]https://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a225/helpfulgardener/6ec63ab9.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a225/helpfulgardener/68c0b4e5.jpg[/img]

In time a tea house and a real fence all the way around the garden, but I have not been in the house a full year yet and it's coming nicely I think...

Thanks for the compliment, by the way, but I'm no master, just a avid aficianado who reads too much :roll:

Scott

MrNorth
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That is an excellent site! I'm so jealous :lol: I see u used the old trick of addding moist to the scene ;) It looks so much better when doing that, perhaps u expected guests?

The moss realy makes this scene work, along with the raised middle-ground. However your scene is lacking some background I think... Perhaps that is solved by using a higher fence, or perhaps some temple pruned bamboo that suggests a forrest? I guess vertical stones are out of the question....

About the hosta problem... perhaps you should add sasa vetishi (name?!)... you know the ground creeping bamboo? Or perhaps a pieris japonicum would do the trick?

If you want to continue to the right, I think perhaps one or two yotsume-gaki with camellia would look nice in that undeveloped flowerbed...


Superb work! I would really like to have that shade!! In my property, its mostly sun all day long, that makes it quite hard to make such a scene with the moss and all the hostas.



nice work
Henrik

MrNorth
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Oh, if you feel up to it, I am really curious about some of your plants... I made this pic where the red line points to the plants of interest along with a number. I'm really curious about the names of these plants. I recognize the hosta, the fargesia and the rhododendhron (if I'm not mistaken)
[img]https://www.odla.nu/album/data/mrnorth/full_1431_p31300.jpg[/img]



/Henrik

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Thank you Henrik. I was expecting to send you photos; same as expecting guests, neh? :)

You are correct in your assessment of the background situation; if you look back left you will see that I have planted Fargesia nitida which will change the background considerably in a few more years (3-4m tall and slighly weeping; it will add more shade as well). Along with the new fence and the Sasa I think the background issue will dissappear (literally!) 8) . The undeveloped bed on the right will probably just be an overflow for Hosta and Hakonechloa; assuming I get the tea house past the significant other (not assured) then it will be nearly dead space so I don't want to expend much money or effort there yet...

Again, just the first year, so the sabi is lacking, but it will come...

Scott

MrNorth
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I'm sorry about all the posts, but I do lack the possibility to edit posts, perhaps you can add that?

anyway, I wanted to give you some more praise on how you made that rather squared edge deeper by using some perspective manipulation. What I refer to is that the scene start rather wide and then become more narrow as the eye moves towards the basin and lantern. That really make the scene feel deeper than it really is ;) A very simple technique, but very powerful when used correctly, like here :wink:

However, I'm not sure what your intention was with the front gravel... in a subtle way it could invoke a plane vector towards the basin, if you know what I mean... a horizontal force towards a specific location. Any more information on how you decided to do that would be interesting. :twisted:

And the lantern and basin, where did u buy them? Sadly no one in swden know about water basins... so I'm stuck with my manufactured one... However I found a really nice rock that I could make into a tsukubai. All I have to figure out is how to make the hole... ;)


/Henrik

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Mason bit for your drill and a stone chisel would work fine (lot of work but worth it)...

Both these pieces came from a D.C. disributor I run into at trade shows; he gets them from China (that lantern of yours looks very familiar, so check out ordering from them. I've seen the catalogs and it's all together).

You grasped the design concept very nicely. Wide flat plane across the front to gather the eye; negative space there (gravel) directs right into negative space on the left (moss and path). I also played with the perspective by changing the size of the stepping stones (smaller as they move away;) making the space appear larger... 8)



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