Detral
Full Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 12:39 pm
Location: Alberta /zone 2-3

Need help and ideas planting around my spruce and apple - pi

We recently moved to a house where the yard is surrounded by spruce trees. I've always wanted an apple tree and this area actually gets 6 hours of sun, I planted one (see picture).

I would love ideas about how to fill this yard in with plants. Right now under the spruce are a rhubarb plant and blackberry bush. I would like to maybe fill that space with hostas and do a flower garden around the Apple tree like the first picture. Because of the spruce roots competing with my apple, I need to keep that in mind when planting.
Attachments
image.jpeg
image.jpeg

AnnaIkona
Greener Thumb
Posts: 801
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:20 pm
Location: Canada zone 8b

Well, you said you wanted hostas. Hostas can get pretty big very fast, plus their roots are sorta big so I'm not sure about that.

Since the apple tree is still quite small, I'd recommend planting shallow-root, groundcover flowers such as Sweet alyssum, which can spread to be nice and beautiful fast.

User avatar
applestar
Mod
Posts: 30504
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 7:21 pm
Location: Zone 6, NJ (3/M)4/E ~ 10/M(11/B)

I'm interested in planting in "plant communities" or "guilds". Plant communities/guilds are naturally occurring groups of plants that are typical allies that grow together in the wild. There have been some studies.

So I was excited to plant a "guild" around my established semi-dwarf apple tree and have tried different groupings. But I wasn't counting on one important factor -- you will be walking around the apple tree quite often in order to care for it: Pruning in the dormant season when the ground may be frozen or wet, spraying in spring and summer, and harvesting in the fall. MOST of the time, you will be looking UPWARD at the apple tree and not the ground where you are walking.

So, I've trampled down many many plants I had attempted to grow in the guild. :roll: You need to establish an area where you will walk -- just keep that weeded and mulched. plant only things you won't mind grinding into the ground -- things that grow quickly from seed or, once your tree is well-grown, rapidly spreading or indestructible (trample-able) perennials (I have a small patch of applemint under the tree about halfway inside the canopy).

One of the ways I determine good plants for a guild is to look at weeds that grow well and then use desirable plants in the same family. I noticed nightshades grow well under the apple, so I ripped them out then started growing more shade tolerant peppers just at or beyond the drip line and tomatoes a little way out of the circle in the sun. Shallow-rooted onions and chives are good choices for under the tree, and this year, I have garlic growing along one curve of the area just beyond the dripline (dripline is where the tree's feeder roots are so you don't want to plant things that will require significant amount of digging).

For your small tree, lettuce and radish might be another idea. Carrots near or just past the dripline in clumps that you won't step on. Deep digging prep and rooting plants can help pioneer the ground for the apple roots to grow into later.

User avatar
rainbowgardener
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 25279
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: TN/GA 7b

Daffodils and onion family things are often listed in the apple tree guild. I planted daffodils and ornamental alliums around my apple trees. Daffodils are nice because colorful in spring, attract pollinators and then get out of the way pretty early. Zone 2-3 is challenging! However, many daffodils and alliums are rated hardy to zone 3.

A ring of hostas around a tree is a very over-used way to deal with it. It depends on how much moisture the area gets. The area around a big tree is often very dry shade, as the tree sucks up the water. A few choices for dry shade

plumbago, hellebores (Lenten rose) these might not be reliably hardy in zone 3, but should be ok with winter protection, spreading dogbane, bellflowers, violets

If you can provide extra moisture for them, the choices expand:

astilbe, lady fern, brunnera, lily of the valley, bleeding heart, caladium ( a tender perennial that would have to be dug and stored for the winter) , solomon's seal.

The first picture is not your yard, it's an inspiration picture you found, right? I love inspiration pictures! But can you show us a picture of your apple tree and generally what areas of your yard you want to "fill in" with flowering plants?

Detral
Full Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 12:39 pm
Location: Alberta /zone 2-3

rainbowgardener wrote:Daffodils and onion family things are often listed in the apple tree guild. I planted daffodils and ornamental alliums around my apple trees. Daffodils are nice because colorful in spring, attract pollinators and then get out of the way pretty early. Zone 2-3 is challenging! However, many daffodils and alliums are rated hardy to zone 3.

A ring of hostas around a tree is a very over-used way to deal with it. It depends on how much moisture the area gets. The area around a big tree is often very dry shade, as the tree sucks up the water. A few choices for dry shade

plumbago, hellebores (Lenten rose) these might not be reliably hardy in zone 3, but should be ok with winter protection, spreading dogbane, bellflowers, violets

If you can provide extra moisture for them, the choices expand:

astilbe, lady fern, brunnera, lily of the valley, bleeding heart, caladium ( a tender perennial that would have to be dug and stored for the winter) , solomon's seal.

The first picture is not your yard, it's an inspiration picture you found, right? I love inspiration pictures! But can you show us a picture of your apple tree and generally what areas of your yard you want to "fill in" with flowering plants?
Thanks for all the plant ideas! I will start looking into them. That's right the first picture is just a yard I liked. The second is mine with the small tree in the middle (no flowers yet)

Detral
Full Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 12:39 pm
Location: Alberta /zone 2-3

applestar wrote:I'm interested in planting in "plant communities" or "guilds". Plant communities/guilds are naturally occurring groups of plants that are typical allies that grow together in the wild. There have been some studies.

One of the ways I determine good plants for a guild is to look at weeds that grow well and then use desirable plants in the same family. I noticed nightshades grow well under the apple, so I ripped them out then started growing more shade tolerant peppers just at or beyond the drip line and tomatoes a little way out of the circle in the sun. Shallow-rooted onions and chives are good choices for under the tree, and this year, I have garlic growing along one curve of the area just beyond the dripline (dripline is where the tree's feeder roots are.
Thanks for all the advice! Now that I know the term apple tree guild maybe I will have better luck finding pictures for inspiration. Good point about trampling! I'm thinking maybe to put decorative stepping stones throughout to help.

Detral
Full Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 12:39 pm
Location: Alberta /zone 2-3

AnnaIkona wrote:Well, you said you wanted hostas. Hostas can get pretty big very fast, plus their roots are sorta big so I'm not sure about that.

Since the apple tree is still quite small, I'd recommend planting shallow-root, groundcover flowers such as Sweet alyssum, which can spread to be nice and beautiful fast.
Thanks! I'm thinking the hostas just for under the spruce, as I'd like to make that area look nice as well.

User avatar
rainbowgardener
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 25279
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: TN/GA 7b

OK sorry, I hadn't clicked on your picture to see the enlarged view.

Your apple tree is still tiny. I would be very careful about planting anything to compete with it until it gets bigger. For the time being, I would just mulch around it (being careful not to have mulch against the trunk).

What variety of apple tree is it? Are you aware that most apple trees are not self-fertile and need another tree to cross pollinate? If you are hoping for apples some day, you may need to get another tree to go with it. Also the space there looks very shady for successful apple growing.

RE: " I'm thinking the hostas just for under the spruce" all those shade plants I named were to give you alternatives to a boring row of hostas under your spruce. Here's the ring of hosta everyone does:
Image

Here's a few of many, many choices:
here's bleeding heart, columbine, and fern:
Image

here's solomon seal
Image

here's caladium, coleus and impatiens:
Image

Detral
Full Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 12:39 pm
Location: Alberta /zone 2-3

Thanks rainbow gardener! The pictures are helpful. I would like a mix. The yard actually isn't as shady as it seems and the tree gets 6 hours of direct sun. It is a self pollinating tree but I have another tree behind the house as well. I do have some mulch around it now, it just seems very boring. I'd like to try out that guild idea with small non competing plants bit need to figure out a shape for around the tree. I'd rather the tree not be dead centre. I'm thinking of maybe connecting it to the garden I'm planting around the row of spruces

User avatar
rainbowgardener
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 25279
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: TN/GA 7b

Those are all good ideas. I agree with not having the tree centered in your planting area, connecting them up, etc. Sounds like you have thought this through and know what you are doing.

And yes just mulching it is boring. But right now your main consideration isn't aesthetics , it is getting your tree well established and healthy. Later you can add landscaping around it. If you are going to plant something there now, I would keep it very small. The sweet alyssum was a good suggestion.

Detral
Full Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 12:39 pm
Location: Alberta /zone 2-3

Thanks again. For now I will focus on the areas under the spruce and will watch r a year or so before planting next to the apple.



Return to “Trees, Shrubs, and Hedges”