Tokis-Phoenix
Newly Registered
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 12:12 pm

Birch tree and pond issues

Hi there everyone :) !

Even though I'm new, I have some big issues I need to talk over about concerning my garden and what to do.
Last year I bought my own place with my fiancé, over the last 8 or so months we have had it we have been concentrating on getting the house sorted (as it needed a lot of re-decorating and things), but now the weather has warmed up we would like to make a proper start on the garden, which up until now has just had the odd flower bed tidied up and nothing more.

I have big plans for the garden, it's going to go through a lot of change this year. Currently it is just your sort of bog standard 50’s to 60’s ex-council house style garden- set at the back of the house, it just has some wooden fences and a load of hedges and not really much else to it apart from a load of strawberry plants growing at the end of the patio, an unusual Australian tree at the side, and a big birch tree at the bottom of the garden by a small summer house/garden shed type building.
Its quite a small garden to work with, but I'm hoping to transform it- I'm taking out the old conifer tree hedges amongst other large hedge-like plants in the garden and adding 2 large ponds joined to each other, and generally re-styling the garden to give it a more Japanese feel to it.

The problem starts with the ponds and the birch tree though. For the last 5months I have been doing research into the ponds and pond design, and have decided on having a pond liner pond at ground level instead of one of those pre-made plastic tub ones or above ground brick ones etc…

The garden is not very large though at all, and I'm having concerns over the beautiful birch tree at the bottom of the garden, which is already around 30ft tall.
I've read that birch tree roots can easily exceed 16ft across long, and that they require well drained but well watered soils- problems with this is;
a. The soil has a thick clay layer about 1-2ft down, and is definitely not well drained. The tree seems to be doing well/ok though so far…
b. I'm very concerned about the tree roots and building the pond.

Considering the height of the tree, I'm assuming its already got quite a mature root system, and that if I dig any ponds anywhere in the garden I'm going to encounter the roots while digging (I'm aiming to have the ponds 3-4 feet deep, because I want to have fish in it), and that I have heard tree roots can puncture pond liner.
Problems with this is that pond liner is really the only practical base for the pond due to its design, and I'm sure even if I laid brick or concrete on the bottom the tree’s roots would find some way around it :( .

I'm also concerned about the tree’s welfare in this as well- I'm concerned if I take up a third of the garden with pond, there won't be sufficient water for the tree’s roots and they’ll die off. I considered chopping any tree roots I encountered off too so I can build the pond without any root worries, but I figured that’ll probably kill the tree too.

So what do I do…?
I love the tree, but I have been wanting to have my own pond for so long now…I also have 2 goldfish in a 30gallon fish tank that I adopted some time ago, that I would eventually like to move into a pond of my own before the end of this year.

So is my only choice to cut the tree down? I do not want to risk killing it off slowly, and then waking up the next day its toppled into a neighbours garden, or on my house :shock: .
Any help/info is much appreiciated :) !

grandpasrose
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1651
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:21 pm
Location: Quesnel, BC, Canada - Zone 4a

Welcome to the Forum Tokis-Phoenix!!

Number One - DON'T CUT DOWN THE TREE!!!
Sorry, just had to be adamant about that. There are always other ways to deal with things than cutting down beautiful trees.

When you build your pond (and I have built one in the exact same fashion as you have decided to) it will not hurt the tree to cut a few of the roots while digging. The tree will grow new roots to replace these for water and nutrients if it needs to. Try not to cut off any large main roots though. If you run into a root that you think is too big to destroy, incorporate it into your pond layout (what difference is a bump in the bottom or side of your pond going to make?).

Your birch sounds like it is quite mature, and it's root system will be well established far more extensively than the part that your pond may hit. Also, if the birch is growing well in the soil it is in, leave it alone. A pointer though, if you are building garden and a pond around the tree, do not build up the soil around the tree trunk any higher than it is. If you need to have the soil higher in that spot, than leave a tree well (a circle of empty space) around it's trunk. If you put soil or mulch, etc up onto the trunk, it will begin to rot, and than you will lose your tree.

My pond is surrounded by several different types of trees and I have never had a problem with roots piercing the liner. The liner is very thick. If you are worried about things puncturing the lining, I have seen some people put a layer of old carpeting down before the liner to give it a little more protection from piercing.

I hope I have answered all your questions. If you need more help, feel free to drop back in, we're always here!! :wink:

Val

Tokis-Phoenix
Newly Registered
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 12:12 pm

grandpasrose wrote:Welcome to the Forum Tokis-Phoenix!!

Number One - DON'T CUT DOWN THE TREE!!!
Sorry, just had to be adamant about that. There are always other ways to deal with things than cutting down beautiful trees.

When you build your pond (and I have built one in the exact same fashion as you have decided to) it will not hurt the tree to cut a few of the roots while digging. The tree will grow new roots to replace these for water and nutrients if it needs to. Try not to cut off any large main roots though. If you run into a root that you think is too big to destroy, incorporate it into your pond layout (what difference is a bump in the bottom or side of your pond going to make?).

Your birch sounds like it is quite mature, and it's root system will be well established far more extensively than the part that your pond may hit. Also, if the birch is growing well in the soil it is in, leave it alone. A pointer though, if you are building garden and a pond around the tree, do not build up the soil around the tree trunk any higher than it is. If you need to have the soil higher in that spot, than leave a tree well (a circle of empty space) around it's trunk. If you put soil or mulch, etc up onto the trunk, it will begin to rot, and than you will lose your tree.

My pond is surrounded by several different types of trees and I have never had a problem with roots piercing the liner. The liner is very thick. If you are worried about things puncturing the lining, I have seen some people put a layer of old carpeting down before the liner to give it a little more protection from piercing.

I hope I have answered all your questions. If you need more help, feel free to drop back in, we're always here!! :wink:

Val
Thankyou for the warm welcome and advice :) !
I am glad I don't have to cut the tree down, as I really like it and it is a very elegant tree that the birds seem to love perching in- its leaves are a lovely bright soft green as they are new right now, having just grown in the last couple of weeks after being bare the whole winter.

I think I will add quite a few layers of pond liner and sand though just to make sure the tree roots won't break through it- the reason why I got so concerned was because I read that tree roots could grow through pond liner and drain the pond in a magazine :| . But I feel better now after some from a different opinion :) .

Tokis-Phoenix
Newly Registered
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 12:12 pm

Oh- just one more thing, about the birch tree;
a. Would it be beneficial to add a gravel layer under the pond liner to aerate things a bit, so it improves the water logging issue but allows a little water to collect under the pond for the roots?
b. Would it be beneficial for the tree if I start watering it? I read that watering birch tree can be beneficial for their growth, even when they are quite mature- I live in england, and recently we've had quite a dry winter, and I expect the summer will be quite dry and hot this year as well.
c. ...Or would it be better to dig a hole and put a pipe in it standing up vertically, so I can pour water down it so the roots get it more directly, but don't have the issue with so much evaporation taking place or water logging around the surface of the tree?

These are just some idea's...The tree does look to be doing fine, but I dunno if its just my imagination, it seems to be quite bendy at the top like the top finer/leaner branches are leaning to one side slightly- is this an indication it could do with more water?
Its just if I can make things work with the pond and the tree, I would like to do my best to make it thrive as birch tree's are one of my favorite tree's and it is a very beautiful slender and graceful specimen at that :) .



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