Clydesdale
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Branches dieing on my apple trees ??

I have 9 apple trees that keep dieing branches every year and I don't know why. Every year, they'll be a main or several small branches that just dry up & die for no reason that I can see; they all do it. I'm wondering if it's a bug or some type of tree decease? I could take some pics and post;m here.

I always cut the dead branches. I did spray them but off hand I don't remember what stuff I used but it happens way before and still after I spray. These trees are still young; 8 out of 9 I graphed myself. They do good but then a big part of it will die in mid Summer. It's very frustrating because of that, the trees aren't getting very big.

Anyone with this problem?

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Kisal
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Do post the pictures. Without them, it's impossible to know whether the damage is from disease, insects, or some other cause. :)

[url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3724]How to Post Pictures & Photos on Forums[/url]

Clydesdale
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I'll get some pictures tonight or tomorrow. :wink:

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applestar
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Photo will confirm, but I almost positive it's Fire Blight. The leaves start browning from the edges and die like they were burned. The branches when cut in affected area will show brown discoloration in what should be creamy interior.

It's a very nasty fungal disease. You need to cut all affected branches to healthy tissue, sterilizing the pruning tool (10% bleach or rubbing alcohol) after each cut so as not to contaminate the rest of the tree. The cuts should be made -- according to most sources -- 6 INCHES BELOW the affected area. Some apple varieties are know to be particularly vulnerable, while some are specifically bred to be resistant. Some apple root stocks transfer their vulnerability to grafted varieties.

Gather, bag, and put in trash all browned leaves and affected branches (Last year, I burned them in my patio firepit and put the ashes around a newly planted peach tree :wink: ) Other apple relatives like crabapples, hawthorns, and firethorns, as well as culinary and ornamental flowering pears are also vulnerable and can infect your apple trees via fallen leaves. Spores are also airborne.

My Enterprise apple is supposed to be highly fire blight resistant, but its rootstock isn't. Two Asian pears planted next to them succumbed in the last two years, Enterprise used to lose 8~12" here and there, but this year, I've been spraying with Surround and 10% Milk Spray since petal fall. Still lost a few branch tips, but so far, that's all.

This spring, I bought a variety called Sweet Sixteen 1 year whip, thinking that was fire blight resistant, but it obviously wasn't because it's dead to the ground :x . Fortunately, Stark Bros has offered to replace/store credit/or charge back credit card almost immediately when I emailed them (Good customer service there :D ). My little Magness pear planted last fall is starting to show brown leaf edges. It's in a bad place because next door neighbor's Callery (Bradford) Pear is 1/2 dead with Fire Blight and they're not doing much about it -- and all the leaves are blowing up against the fence Magness is planted on the other side of. Arkansas Black and Pristine apples, though planted along the same fence row, are not showing any signs so far. Just sprayed the lot with Sour Cream whey and water solution since we're having heavy rains/near 100% humidity days this week (I didn't have any milk -- about 2 Tbs to 24 oz of water.) It rained buckets again this morning :roll:, but Th Helpful Gardener assures that the bacterial action is not easily washed off :cool: , so I'm crossing my fingers and will wait until I get some milk to spray again.

My problem is Cedar Apple Rust. Despite the milk sprays etc. All apples have some leaves yellow/red spots with those tentacles growing from underneath. :evil: I had to get out there and cut off all those leaves. I'll also be starting a batch of Aerated Compost Tea to foliar spray and soil drench them. Gotta get hold of fish hydrolysate too.

Clydesdale
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Here are pictures.

:?

[img]https://i32.tinypic.com/4jt2lt.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i28.tinypic.com/29enqdv.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i30.tinypic.com/20sc587.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i26.tinypic.com/24c8kf5.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i30.tinypic.com/34odiip.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i32.tinypic.com/f5b055.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i30.tinypic.com/2uz2rzr.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i29.tinypic.com/11hvygj.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i29.tinypic.com/11skzsm.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i30.tinypic.com/28v5amb.jpg[/img]

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applestar
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Yeah. I'm afraid that IS fire blight.... The primary concern here is to cut off the affected branches so that the infection doesn't reach the main trunk. Once that happens, it gets spread throughout the tree, and even if a branch seems to be OK here and there, eventually, the entire tree will succumb.

We're at a critical window right now because you NEED to cut the branches with browned leaves and blackened barks off, but if your weather has been humid like mine, fresh and in this case, large wounds can easily result in infiltration from the cut. Technically, though, the recommended period for not pruning in fire blight prone regions is late spring~early summer. "Late Summer until Labor Day" is the recommended pruning time in my area for this year's growth that has matured and has woody bark.

Another reason this may or may not be a good time to prune is that cutting now WILL encourage new shoots to grow, but those shoots may or may not have enough time to mature and be able to withstand frost/freeze during this winter.

That said, however, if it were me, I WOULD start by cutting off any fire blight affected branches but not to the healthy wood at first, and dispose of them. Then on a good dry day, I would cut to the healthy tissue, sterilizing the pruners after each cut. Now, in the past, I've tried spraying the cut with an atomizer of rubbing alcohol. I've also tried liberally spraying the cut area with 10% milk. As far as I know, infection did not spread after the cut nor were the cut branches adversely affected. But this last bit is an experiment on my part and I'm not recommending it as something that works.

Clydesdale
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Thanks for your help; I really do appreciate it.

In the past, I always did cut the dead branches. I've always applied Pine Tar over the cut area; is that ok to use? I had 1 tree that was gettng big and one year it fully succumed; I was very upset and frustrated. It has since fully grown again but only produces 4 to 5 apples per year. :x

From reading different threads in this forum, I see that I also need to prune my trees properly. I knew that but I wanted to battle this problem first. I graphed these trees over 10 years ago and look how small they are; that's because the branches keep dieing every years. Disappointing!! :x

I'll do as you suggested but aside from that, isn't there something I can spray on to prevent this?

Thanks again.


I'm back; I just found this Fire Blight Spray https://www.planetnatural.com/site/fire-blight-spray.html I'm gonna buy it.

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applestar
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I hope The Helpful Gardener would render his opinion on that product. He's the authority. My knee-jerk reaction is that anything with "-mycin" in the name is an anti-biotic and I would be concerned. The product will kill off good bacteria as well as the bad and thoroughly upset the microbiological balance of the trees as well as the surrounding area. It's like people getting an upset stomach/diarrhea and/or breaking out in hives from taking oral antibiotics. In addition, anything that survives the treatment will create resistant strains.

I have to admit that before posting that "fire blight is a fungal disease" I had a moment of doubt and did a quick search -- and based on the couple of top of the lists that said "fungal" -- I went ahead with it. Now I'm felling a bit put out because I should've known it was bacterial.... :oops: My impression is that in the plant world, the gravity of the situation worsens from fungal->bacterial->viral.

My choice of heavy-hitter preventive and treatment after pruning off the affected branches would be strained foliar spray of [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17097&highlight=]Aerated Compost Tea[/url] and unstrained soil drench from trunk to drip-line.

Clydesdale
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Here's the MSDS data for that stuff https://www.fertilome.com/products/MSDS/10363.pdf

I'm confused :?

Thanks again.

The Helpful Gardener
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Confused about what, Clyde? We can help...

Streptomycin is an isolate from a naturally occurring soil fungus (usually synthesized, but the folks at [url=https://www.planetnatural.com/site/mycostop-fungicide.html]Mycostop[/url] seem to be isolating a specific species so it must be natural). It talks about the antifungal qualities here, but we are culturing the fungus S. griseoviridis right on the leaves, which does tow things. One, our fungus takes up room on the leaf suface, and other organisms can't colonize an already populated area (called biological counterculture) and two, it is producing the same chemical compound that you are purchasing (which makes it antagonistic biological counterculture; AS's milk treatments are the former type for bacterial, but actually antagonistsc against fungus, which ain't a bad thing either. 8) ) AS's advice was very cogent (especially sterilizing pruners) and has the right idea with the innoculation, and you have the right idea with streptomycin; my solution just has the beauty of both ideas built into one singular product... 8)

But here's the bad news; this is a great preventitive, and curative on surface leaf infection, but in a trunk infection like you have now, it will not do much. I know of no good systemic antibiotic for the homeowner. Most tree professionals would use a [url=https://www.mauget.com/index.cfm?PageID=18&ID=4&productid=13]Mauget capsule[/url] of Mycojet (they drill a hole and stick a capsule into it), but the really hip arborists would use my buddy Pete Wild's [url=https://www.arborjet.com/products/devices.htm]Arborjet System[/url]to direct inject the same stuff directly, under good pressure (way better than Mauget). Recommend this approach to a licensed arborist and if he doesn't already have the Arborjet, he'll thank you later, but this problem has passed home solutions, I fear, and you DO need to seek professional help or lose the trees :cry:

HG

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applestar
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Thanks for coming by HG. :D
Wow -- sounds like serious stuff. I was afraid that some of the photos showed deteriorating trunk. :( So your advice is to call the "doctor" and ask to give the really sick trees "a shot", eh? The scenario and the owner's dilemma are akin to critical care for pets.

Sorry Clydesdale, it's not really funny, but I have this habit of creating a 1-frame Editorial cartoon in my head :roll:

Good luck with your apple trees. Considering you grafted them yourself (I'd like to try doing that some day -- I'll be practicing T-budding next month), this is really a tough break for you. Hope they feel better soon. :wink:

Clydesdale
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I phoned some of the "BIG NAME" nursuries around the city and they all seem clueless about Fire Blight or they don't care. I'll see if I can fin a licensed arborist but I have to idea where to start with that search. I'll dig around. Meantime, I'll cut off those dead branches. :(

I'll get back to you all and thanks again!
:D :D :D

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Kisal
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Start with the Yellow Pages of the phone book. Licensed arborists around here include their license numbers in their ads. You can just call them on the phone and ask them what they would do to help a tree with Fire Blight.

Well, that's how I find my arborists, anyway. :lol:

The Helpful Gardener
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No mention of your locale, Clyde, but in my state we have the [url=https://www.ctpa.org/]CTPA[/url]; I'm a member (not a licensed arborist, but I took the CTPA course). A great resource for almost everywhere is [url=https://www.isa-arbor.com/]ISA[/url]; anyone carrying this certification is the real deal. Harder than the state licensing exams from what I hear, and that is saying something. Most anyone accredited in your state is pretty good, but an ISA certification means they are really good; I'd look there...

HG

Clydesdale
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I'm back with an update.

After my last post here, ......

I cut off all the infected branches like you folks told me. I even cut off the ones that were a bit questionable. Sadly, I had to cut lots. I bought some Copper Fungicide powder, mixed it with water and sprayed (drenched) the trees every 10 days until late Summer and it all came to a halt after the first application. I haven't seen any signs of Fire Blight yet.

Starting next Spring, I will continue spraying every 10 days and report back.

Now I have to figure out how to keep the deer away from my trees. Those buggers ate all the new growth after I started spraying. [img]https://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/Clydesdale_album/hunter.gif[/img] Some type of scare crow or maybe wind chimes might keep them away?

Thanks all. I think my trees would of all died eventually if it weren't for your help. I really appreciate this help.

JONA878
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Fire Blight is a nasty that has been a pest to fruit growers over here as well. First appearing in the 1950's.
In fact there is one variety of pear that it is forbidden to grow as it is so susceptable.
If your trees are badly infected and the odd branch removal is not controlling the problem , then it may be wise to count your losses and grub and burn the infected trees.

Look around your garden too.Whitebeam,Mountain Ash, Cotoneaster and Pyracantha to name.... just a few..... all act as host plants to the infection.
Over here it is a notifiable disease.

It was suspected that the railways were responsable for the spread of the disease over here as they acted as pathways of untreated flora that allowed the spread to happen.

Jona.

The Helpful Gardener
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S'what we do Clyde. Tell your friends...

HG

Clydesdale
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The trees are currently in flower; when can I start spraying Copper Fungicide again? After the flowers are gone? And, should I spray all Summer long?

Thanks all.

The Helpful Gardener
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Wait until the flowers have passed (no need to ruin them).

And I wouldn't spray without seeing something that needed spraying; preventitive spraying kills good guys as well as bad guys.

Keeping the area debris free, good air circulation in the canopy, and quick pruning of infection are your best defenses. Spray only at the sign of disease...

HG

Clydesdale
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Sounds good, THG.

Thanks
:)



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