Prancu
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Damping off in older seedlings?

Several of my tomato seedlings fell over overnight. I suspect damping off. However, they were all about 6 inches tall with several sets of leaves. I always thought damping off usually occurs in very young seedlings. Is it still possible in older seedlings? Also, none of them have actually died yet. Out of curiosity, I left them quarantined for a few days, and they were still growing new leaves a week later (as they continued to lay completely flat). For context, these are still indoors, under a grow light.

PaulF
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As you know damping off can occur at any time, but mostly to younger seedlings. My opinion is it happens with overwatering more than any other reason.

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applestar
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I had a weird problem with my tomato seedlings earlier. I posted about it in this thread :arrow: Seedling shedding true leaves for no apparent reason
viewtopic.php?t=77238

… and eventually realized these seedlings were suffering from damping off at a much older stage than I’m used to seeing, caused by a different kind of fungus than the typical one (I should post a followup to that thread — I was having tech problems and lost the link to a good reference I had found…. :? )

These didn’t survive, but you can see how they look “girdled” — they are scarred all around the lower stem.
6D26EE4A-D508-4052-ACBC-631A9A9F2F8D.jpeg
I didn’t take a photo, but I was just today looking at several plants that DID survive and are still growing — but the worst affected are seriously stunted — probably 1/2 as developed. I believe if I plant them deep — to above the scarred stem — they might grow new roots higher up the stem, become able to resume normal water and nutrient uptake, and recover.

Prancu
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Applestar, your pic looks very similar to my survivors (the ones that didn't fall over). I up-potted them recently, and buried them as deep as I could. I'm hoping it works. Now though, the soil won't dry out from the initial watering. So I'm terrified it's going to happen again. I dared putting them outside today (in the shade obviously) in hopes that the hot temps would dry them out. Though with the ones that flopped over, I was only watering them when they were bone dry (every week and a half ish) so I'm still not sure how this happened. And yes, all the containers had drainage holes. I think my apartment just must be too humid...

imafan26
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I haven't had that happen, but I don't grow indoors. The weather (again), this year has been strange. Cold periods, warm days, and back to cold again. Plants blooming out of season (now it is the crepe myrtle blooming early), BER and it isn't even that hot yet. I think you are probably having similar climate problems. There isn't that much you can do but hope they will recover.

I am harvesting my Camaro tomato now and the red currant has flowers.

IMJJ2021
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Is this damping off? It’s happened to three of my tomato plants, one actually fell over so I cut it and put it in water to grow new roots then replant.
F86FAC26-010E-4C41-A8EF-FD5C24871B7D.jpeg

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applestar
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Once planted in the garden, another possibility is cutworm damage. Cutworm is caterpillar of a moth that feeds at night by curling around the base of a stem and gnawing all around until it saws through. Sometimes, you can find them by scratching around the plant next morning. They are ugly brown/olive fat caterpillar that wants to curl up in a circle. I’ve also found mole tracks tunneling right by a severed, fallen over plant — presumably, the cutworm was discovered. I’ve seen wild birds like Flicker and Grackle pick them up along a garden bed after pecking through mulch.

I can’t tell from the photo if this is one or the other. It helps to stick a pair of bamboo skewers on either side of the plant (toothpicks if very small seedling)

It must have been rather humid/wet lately, there are proto-roots growing — if you mound up soil around the stem up above the skinny damaged looking base to where those roots are, it will be able to grow new roots. One way to do this is to make a collar around the plant with bottomless cup or plastic nursery pot slit down one side, placed around the stem, then duct-taped back together.

IMJJ2021
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Excellent suggestions applestar, I just went out in the dark to check, I didn’t see any caterpillar but a moth flew right at my flashlight.

I did mound up around one of the tomato plant but without collar, I will make collars for both plants. Third plant that fell over is really stunted, I only put tape around the stem, I will do the soil mound for it too.

I am a first time grower this is sooooo discouraging, I asked my friends with multi-years experience and they have never seen this before :(

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applestar
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Yeah, you find out there’s a lot to learn when you are just/first starting. But Tomatoes are good one to learn with. They are resilient. If they are only recently planted and still manageable, another thing you could try is to stick a garden spade/fork deep next to the plant Then tilt it over so you can bury the bottom of the stem at an angle. Support and guide the stem — it’ll straighten up in a couple of days.

Either method you use, you’ll see a jump in foliar growth in a week once the new roots grow and establish. Make sure to keep the soil around the plant watered if it doesn’t rain.

If it IS raining a lot, be sure to start preventively spraying against fungal diseases. I like using diluted milk with a bit of yogurt whey (Some people use buttermilk) to start with.

Prancu
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That collar idea is great, applestar. My survivors don't quite look like that, but they are quite leggy. I buried as much of the stem as I could, but it still wasn't enough. I was waiting for when I could up-pot them again and bury deeper. But that collar could be the perfect solution to get started on that now without having to move them to a bigger pot yet. It will be great just to give them more stability. They are all staked, due to the legginess, but they just look so unstable at the bottoms...
Also, IMJJ2021, I am also a first time grower. I've grown herbs and flowers from seed in the past, but those were so much easier! It's definitely been a learning experience. I'm just hoping my tomatoes and peppers actually make it outside after all this!

IMJJ2021
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This is what I did today…hopefully I didn’t mess up….?

It’s gonna dip to 2 degrees Celsius tonight…hopefully they will be ok…
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Gary350
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Only time my tomato plants had damping off was seeds started inside the house with NO fan. When plants get about 6" tall with several leaves they are no longer susceptible to damping off. I have such good luck planting tomato seeds directly in the garden I never grow tomato seeds in the house they do very well outside as long as it does not get below 40° F at night. Many times I have had tomatoes totally under water for 2 weeks with no damage to any of the plants. 2 tomato plants are big enough to transplant tomorrow with a spoon. I have 3 varieties of seeds planted in 3 different places. Temperature is now 56° and dropping to 45° tonight.

Sprinkle corn meal around tomato plant stems you won't have cut worm problems. If corn meal gets hard from getting moist or wet you need to put new corn meal over top old hard corn meal. The story I hear is cut worms eat the corn meal & not the tomato plants. I had a terrible cut worm problem when we lived at the other house corn meal solved the problem.

I have never had a cut worm problem at the house we live in 6 yrs now.
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Last edited by Gary350 on Mon May 31, 2021 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Prancu
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Which is why my situation was so confusing, Gary. They were 6" tall with several sets of leaves. And they had a fan on them as younger seedlings. I had just recently moved them away from the fan because they outgrew their shelf. But I'm still not sure if it was damping off. Because yes, they flopped over completely, but I put 2 of them aside and they are still alive today, happily growing (just laying flat). And it's been a few weeks since they first fell over.

IMJJ2021
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Applestar you saved my plant, it is thriving and my neighbors keep asking what I fed it lol…
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applestar
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Glad to hear it @IMJJ :() 👍 Good luck and keep posting with your garden progress. It’s so much fun to see everybody’s garden growing and thriving. :D



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