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TexasGardenGirl
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Tomato issues *again*

I swear I cannot win with my garden this year. I can't tell what's up. I dunno what in the heck is going on. If it's some sort of disease I think it hopped a ride on one of the starts that I bought. And if it is, I have no clue how to treat it, if treatment is possible. Man, tomatoes are a lot harder than I thought they'd be! I hate constantly seeming to have issues that I need advice on...but it is nice to be able to post here and not feel like people are going to ridicule me for being a newbie. So, what does this look like to y'all? My first thought was blight but every example shows there being a "bull's eye" look to the spots on the leaves. So, maybe not? I don't know....I need the help of a more experienced gardener, I think. And I'm thinking I may go to the county extension office to see if I could get some help. Anyway, thanks in advance for reading.
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applestar
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

It could be blight I suppose, but don't the marks, overall, look like contact spray damage?

Have you sprayed anything? Especially something with oil in it?

If you haven't, is it possible your garden is getting hit by wind drift cloud of herbicide or insecticide? (I think this is the second time I said this to someone -- I don't want to sound or seem like I'm paranoid... :roll: )
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Lindsaylew82
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

Hmmm. I disagree with blight. I think it looks like septoria. Leaf spot.

It's fungal. I use neem weekly, and I remove the affected branches. I clean my snips by dipping in a small cup of rubbing alcohol.

You're are gonna want to treat your plants like sick patients. If you touch a sick patient, you don't want to touch a well patient! Understand?

You are gonna want to remove all the affected branches. Neem oil is REALLY good stuff! If you decide to use it, you'll want to use it in the late afternoon, when the sun is not shinning directly on the plants, and it has overnight to dry.

Here, fungus happens. No matter what. It's always humid here, until the temps start to drop in the fall. We just try to keep it in check best we can. Removing infected stems does 2 things. Increases air flow, and removes the spores. Both help with fungal issues.

Mulch, mulch, mulch! Cover the bare dirt. If the dirt is covered, it can't splash up onto the leaves.

Water from the bottom. When you water from the top, the foliage gets wet. Fungus likes wet leaves! Hairy tomato plants like to hold water which further increases fungal happiness!

Some others here use different anti fungal treatments, but I really prefer neem oil. Having said that, I've been using aerated compost tea as a foliage treatment, and I think I'm seeing pretty good results as far as my regular fungal issues are involved. I'm looking forward to experimenting more with it!
Lindsay
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USDA Zone 7b/ Sunset Zone 31

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Lindsaylew82
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

Well the top picture....that might be blight? Is that at the top of the plant?
Lindsay
Upstate, SC
USDA Zone 7b/ Sunset Zone 31

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TexasGardenGirl
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

Lindsaylew82 wrote:Well the top picture....that might be blight? Is that at the top of the plant?
The top picture is actually a different plant. A smaller one, different variety. But since all but one, maybe two, out of six seem to have whatever these spots are, I figured I'd include that one. The others are all my black prince, the one this all began with. I actually sprayed neem oil yesterday on the suggestion of someone at the garden center. I treated all the tomatoes, even the ones seemingly not affected. But, go figure, it decided to rain. I don't know when it started, last night or this morning. I'm hoping the neem had time to dry. If it is septoria, can it be stopped/cured or whatnot?

ETA: Everything is mulched well now. But when I first put the plants in I didn't have a vehicle that could move the bags of mulch. I also water from below. Only time the foliage is wet is when it rains. Can't control that of course. And since it rained for a solid week I'm wondering if that's what caused it.

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Lindsaylew82
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

A weeks worth of rain can mean an absolute wreck here in the south.

Blight is also fungal. Just do the best you can at removing the bad looking leaves. You may have to remove a LOT! Just cut them off close to the main stem. You will likely get healthy grow back starting close to the bottom. They're sucker sprouts. I keep them on indeterminates because IME, they give me more produce. Some people cut them off though, too. Be diligent in your regimen. Consistently treating for fungus is key. You stop, it roars! It's just part of the area we live in!

If you can find some really good compost, and an aquarium aerating system with a flexible bubble wand, you can very easily make aerated compost tea. There are some REALLY GOOD threads here about it. Definitely worth looking into!
Lindsay
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USDA Zone 7b/ Sunset Zone 31

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TexasGardenGirl
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

Lindsaylew82 wrote:A weeks worth of rain can mean an absolute wreck here in the south.

Blight is also fungal. Just do the best you can at removing the bad looking leaves. You may have to remove a LOT! Just cut them off close to the main stem. You will likely get healthy grow back starting close to the bottom. They're sucker sprouts. I keep them on indeterminates because IME, they give me more produce. Some people cut them off though, too. Be diligent in your regimen. Consistently treating for fungus is key. You stop, it roars! It's just part of the area we live in!

If you can find some really good compost, and an aquarium aerating system with a flexible bubble wand, you can very easily make aerated compost tea. There are some REALLY GOOD threads here about it. Definitely worth looking into!
Okay, so keep treating for fungus and remove as many of the affected leaves, even if it's pretty much entire large stems? I mean, this spread very fast. And hit all but like, two plants. I'll see if I can find some good compost. I only just started my bin so I probably won't have any until next spring at the earliest. I just hate the idea of taking pretty much everything in the way of foliage and stems, including vines that are about to flower.

imafan26
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

I think it could be a mix. It looks like bacterial speck or spot to me. But the top picture looks like the patches are more irregular with a yellow halo. The spots are mostly along the leaf margins and working their way in. I can't tell if the patches are between the veins.
I don't think it is septoria spot. Septoria spots are usually larger and rounder with a light center and fruiting bodies from the fungi in the center.
"The foliar symptoms of speck consist of small (1/8-1/4 in.) black lesions, often with a discrete yellow halo . The lesions of bacterial spot are similar, but tend to have a greasy appearance, whereas those of speck do not. Speck seems to curl the leaves more severely than spot." ( vegetablemdonline: Bacterial diseases of tomato)
The top leaf does look like early blight or bacterial spot with the halo
The ones with the small specks look more like bacterial speck. Early signs of bacterial spot and speck may not have the yellow halo, but the halo can develop later.

https://vegetablemdonline.ppath.cornell. ... omato1.pdf
https://vegetablemdonline.ppath.cornell. ... terial.htm
https://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/vege ... er/leaves/

It is actually not all that easy to identify the differences between the different diseases unless you encounter them enough to tell them apart.

The bacterial diseases are usually seed borne and are transmitted by infected seed. If you are getting your tomatoes from the same place and one tomato has it, the rest probably do as well. The grower may not know himself since he is probably buying seeds from somewhere else. The seeds will look fine when they are planted.

Fungal diseases are from the humid wet weather. Preventive fungicides will help. But you need to start early.

It is also important to rotate your crops to a different family or a different location if you are having problems. You may not have the best location for the plant and it might do better somewhere else. If there was a problem with a disease you have to wait for the disease to dissipate before you bring in a susceptible crop.

Basically if the humidity is high or it has been raining for long periods of time and the leaves are not having time to dry, you need to use preventive antifungal sprays to stay ahead of the game. Sometimes it helps but if it rains for weeks, sometimes it can be hard to keep the plants healthy. Avoid overhead watering. If it starts raining for weeks at a time. I usually just pull my plants and start over after the weather system has passed. I learned the hard way that once the plants go down the slippery slope it is better to let them go. I do have the advantage of a long growing season so it helps and the tropical tomatoes have more disease resistance built into them. In the South, try the Louisiana Creole tomato or go with cherry tomatoes, they are just naturally heartier.

You can still learn from your failures. Keep a garden journal and try to keep a record of environmental conditions. It is how I learned when the best times to plant each crop. The best temperatures, time of the year. I still really could not predict when the storms would be coming but I know in El Nino years it will be drier in the winter and wetter in the summer for me so I can plant earlier because it is warmer and drier and in winter, I will have more fungal issues because of higher humidity, higher temperatures and more rain days than normal in summer. I know if the humidity is high and it is raining almost every night, I have to fungicide weekly all of the plants that are susceptible like the roses and tomatoes preventively. I also know that right now the spider mites are out in force and I have a few white flies (actually my plants were fine, but someone brought in peppers for the sale and I ended up with the leftovers and I think he has a problem with white flies because they were mostly on his plants). I have had a lot of failures with tomatoes, not so much with growing them, but with them not living up to their catalog descriptions. I just did not like them much. I have learned to read catalogs better. I check out the reviews on Tatiana's tomatobase and Dave's garden. If the catalog says the flavor is excellent or tart sweet, it gives you an idea that it is a pretty good tomato. If disease resistance is mentioned but not flavor it is probably not that great. If flavor is "good", it is probably not really great but passable. Applestar has grown and reviewed a lot of tomatoes but I cannot grow most of them because they don't have the heat tolerance or disease resistance I need for them to survive. With tomatoes, it really is an adventure to wade through the hundreds, maybe thousands that are available to find the ones that will do well in your garden and have a taste that you like.
My favorites are sungold, sunsugar, sugary, red current, brandywine (required weekly fungicides and had to be in a pot on a raised bench to prevent nematodes), sweet mojo, New Big Dwarf (tree type tomato, compact with large fruit for its size with good flavor) Lucky cross ( like brandywine a very big plant with big flavor , Brandywine is a parent)

In any case good sanitation is a must. Get rid of the leaves and debris as soon as you see signs. Make sure you wash tools and hands that come in contact with the diseased parts so you don't tranfer the bacteria to the uninfected parts or plants. Surface infections are not that bad, but once there are signs of systemic infection, it is better to just get rid of the plant since the fruit are likely to show symptoms as well. You don't want them to multiply. Field sanitation is also recommended. Try not to plant susceptible crops in the same spot for a couple of years.
Make sure you get healthy plants and certified seeds. I know you started from seedlings but if you start earlier indoors you can look for suppliers who can guarantee their seeds and there are treatments you can use to sterilize the seeds before you plant them.
https://www.gardening.cornell.edu/homega ... e7af3.html
https://ag.umass.edu/services/hot-water-seed-treatment
Happy gardening in Hawaii. Gardens are where people grow.

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TexasGardenGirl
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

imafan26 wrote:I think it could be a mix. It looks like bacterial speck or spot to me. But the top picture looks like the patches are more irregular with a yellow halo. The spots are mostly along the leaf margins and working their way in. I can't tell if the patches are between the veins.
I don't think it is septoria spot. Septoria spots are usually larger and rounder with a light center and fruiting bodies from the fungi in the center.
"The foliar symptoms of speck consist of small (1/8-1/4 in.) black lesions, often with a discrete yellow halo . The lesions of bacterial spot are similar, but tend to have a greasy appearance, whereas those of speck do not. Speck seems to curl the leaves more severely than spot." ( vegetablemdonline: Bacterial diseases of tomato)
The top leaf does look like early blight or bacterial spot with the halo
The ones with the small specks look more like bacterial speck. Early signs of bacterial spot and speck may not have the yellow halo, but the halo can develop later.

https://vegetablemdonline.ppath.cornell. ... omato1.pdf
https://vegetablemdonline.ppath.cornell. ... terial.htm
https://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/vege ... er/leaves/

It is actually not all that easy to identify the differences between the different diseases unless you encounter them enough to tell them apart.

The bacterial diseases are usually seed borne and are transmitted by infected seed. If you are getting your tomatoes from the same place and one tomato has it, the rest probably do as well. The grower may not know himself since he is probably buying seeds from somewhere else. The seeds will look fine when they are planted.

Fungal diseases are from the humid wet weather. Preventive fungicides will help. But you need to start early.

It is also important to rotate your crops to a different family or a different location if you are having problems. You may not have the best location for the plant and it might do better somewhere else. If there was a problem with a disease you have to wait for the disease to dissipate before you bring in a susceptible crop.

Basically if the humidity is high or it has been raining for long periods of time and the leaves are not having time to dry, you need to use preventive antifungal sprays to stay ahead of the game. Sometimes it helps but if it rains for weeks, sometimes it can be hard to keep the plants healthy. Avoid overhead watering. If it starts raining for weeks at a time. I usually just pull my plants and start over after the weather system has passed. I learned the hard way that once the plants go down the slippery slope it is better to let them go. I do have the advantage of a long growing season so it helps and the tropical tomatoes have more disease resistance built into them. In the South, try the Louisiana Creole tomato or go with cherry tomatoes, they are just naturally heartier.

You can still learn from your failures. Keep a garden journal and try to keep a record of environmental conditions. It is how I learned when the best times to plant each crop. The best temperatures, time of the year. I still really could not predict when the storms would be coming but I know in El Nino years it will be drier in the winter and wetter in the summer for me so I can plant earlier because it is warmer and drier and in winter, I will have more fungal issues because of higher humidity, higher temperatures and more rain days than normal in summer. I know if the humidity is high and it is raining almost every night, I have to fungicide weekly all of the plants that are susceptible like the roses and tomatoes preventively. I also know that right now the spider mites are out in force and I have a few white flies (actually my plants were fine, but someone brought in peppers for the sale and I ended up with the leftovers and I think he has a problem with white flies because they were mostly on his plants). I have had a lot of failures with tomatoes, not so much with growing them, but with them not living up to their catalog descriptions. I just did not like them much. I have learned to read catalogs better. I check out the reviews on Tatiana's tomatobase and Dave's garden. If the catalog says the flavor is excellent or tart sweet, it gives you an idea that it is a pretty good tomato. If disease resistance is mentioned but not flavor it is probably not that great. If flavor is "good", it is probably not really great but passable. Applestar has grown and reviewed a lot of tomatoes but I cannot grow most of them because they don't have the heat tolerance or disease resistance I need for them to survive. With tomatoes, it really is an adventure to wade through the hundreds, maybe thousands that are available to find the ones that will do well in your garden and have a taste that you like.
My favorites are sungold, sunsugar, sugary, red current, brandywine (required weekly fungicides and had to be in a pot on a raised bench to prevent nematodes), sweet mojo, New Big Dwarf (tree type tomato, compact with large fruit for its size with good flavor) Lucky cross ( like brandywine a very big plant with big flavor , Brandywine is a parent)

In any case good sanitation is a must. Get rid of the leaves and debris as soon as you see signs. Make sure you wash tools and hands that come in contact with the diseased parts so you don't tranfer the bacteria to the uninfected parts or plants. Surface infections are not that bad, but once there are signs of systemic infection, it is better to just get rid of the plant since the fruit are likely to show symptoms as well. You don't want them to multiply. Field sanitation is also recommended. Try not to plant susceptible crops in the same spot for a couple of years.
Make sure you get healthy plants and certified seeds. I know you started from seedlings but if you start earlier indoors you can look for suppliers who can guarantee their seeds and there are treatments you can use to sterilize the seeds before you plant them.
https://www.gardening.cornell.edu/homega ... e7af3.html
https://ag.umass.edu/services/hot-water-seed-treatment
The top photo you said it looked like the patches had a yellow halo but they don't in person, to my eyes anyway. And the other photos, the ones of the same plant, those are some of the older, more affected leaves I could find. The worst of them are actually closer to the center of the plant more than anything.

I did speak to a rep at the garden center and she said the supplier has actually just found out they have a bacterial issue in their greenhouses. Since it's been unchecked for this long, lots of plants got shipped that were affected without them knowing. The one I took three photos of was from that supplier. Hence why I think something hitched a ride to my garden.

This is the first year I've planted anything and I'm using raised beds. Next year I'd planned on moving my tomatoes where my green beans are and moving my green beans where my tomatoes are. Since they aren't in the same family, I'm assuming that should be okay.

I hadn't even thought of preventative fungicides when we got slammed with a week of rain and cool temperatures. But it was still humid. I'm gonna guess that did more harm than good.

Once the weather clears up to cloudy but not raining I'm going to go out and give everything a good pruning. And I won't stick any of the removed parts in my compost bin. I'm gonna treat them and hope new growth stays healthy. I guess that's all I can do.

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Lindsaylew82
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

It is IMPOSSIBLE for me prevent by rotation. Most of these things linger in the soil for years.... More than 1 season. Likely more than 2... There are wild hosts that are prone to these diseases that grow pretty much everywhere.... Point is, I'll always be waging the war...just like I always have!

I will tell you, Black Prince was not happy here, and completely got wilt. I pulled it, and chose not to replant it here.

I do eventually get blight. I eventually get septoria every year. (I don't have TOO much trouble with bacterial diseases (Lordy, let me go find some wood to knock on!!!) anyway, there isn't really much I can do, except fight the battles. I'd like to think I've been fairly successful! I get a good crop. I save seed every year, in the hopes that I'll eventually have more disease resistance. I don't grow based on resistance, I grow based on flavor. If a plant just flat out refuses to grow here, I give up on it, and try something new, but similar.

I wouldn't pull your plants just yet. While Texas is warm, you can't grow thing year round like you can in Hawaii. I would do a very serious prune job. Keep with the neem oil, and just see what happens.

I think your rotation plan is nice. But here, as far as disease, unless you are talking fields, it ain't gonna mean much. Fungal spores fly, just like my dreams of a fungusless garden! ;)

Hope you get a little more arid!
Lindsay
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rainbowgardener
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

Nothing to add to what's been said, except my sympathy! I know how frustrating it is. Tomatoes are supposedly the "gateway drug" to gardening - fresh tomatoes are so good, the plant (if things go well) is so productive. Everyone grows tomatoes. But in fact they are very difficult! They are the most disease prone thing I grow. Even the other nightshade family stuff, peppers and potatoes, never get all those fungal diseases.

I agree, I don't think septoria. I'm very familiar with septoria because my tomatoes almost always get it before the end of the season. The one year they didn't was the one year Cincinnati (where I lived until recently) had a huge drought, not only with almost no rain most of the summer, but with way less humidity than usual. In Oct, my tomato plants were still huge and leafy / bushy and beautiful! But that is the only time.

Unfortunately, septoria would be the good news. In my experience, anyway, septoria is less virulent and tomato plants can survive with it a lot longer. Both bacterial diseases and blights kill plants faster.
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applestar
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

Wow, I'm thinking you folks have just pointed out the Silverlining in my area's annual summer drought.....

It sounds like you have had the situation identified, @TGG, with plenty of good advise. Good luck! :bouncey:
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TexasGardenGirl
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

Lindsaylew82 wrote:It is IMPOSSIBLE for me prevent by rotation. Most of these things linger in the soil for years.... More than 1 season. Likely more than 2... There are wild hosts that are prone to these diseases that grow pretty much everywhere.... Point is, I'll always be waging the war...just like I always have!

I will tell you, Black Prince was not happy here, and completely got wilt. I pulled it, and chose not to replant it here.

I do eventually get blight. I eventually get septoria every year. (I don't have TOO much trouble with bacterial diseases (Lordy, let me go find some wood to knock on!!!) anyway, there isn't really much I can do, except fight the battles. I'd like to think I've been fairly successful! I get a good crop. I save seed every year, in the hopes that I'll eventually have more disease resistance. I don't grow based on resistance, I grow based on flavor. If a plant just flat out refuses to grow here, I give up on it, and try something new, but similar.

I wouldn't pull your plants just yet. While Texas is warm, you can't grow thing year round like you can in Hawaii. I would do a very serious prune job. Keep with the neem oil, and just see what happens.

I think your rotation plan is nice. But here, as far as disease, unless you are talking fields, it ain't gonna mean much. Fungal spores fly, just like my dreams of a fungusless garden! ;)

Hope you get a little more arid!
Hmmm it seems we're in a very similar area, with me in NC and your SC location. Both zone 7b. I will be gardening in Texas again in a year or so but then I'll be combating heat and whatever other pests Texas brings.

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TexasGardenGirl
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

I went out to prune the affected foliage when there was a break in the rain. Figured since the sun wasn't gonna shine much, if at all, today then it'd be a good day since I knew I was going to take most of the foliage from the black prince. And I was right, most of it came off. I was left with mostly top growth but it all looked healthy, green, and spot free. I saw some bugs I've never seen before, though. Instead of starting a new thread I figure, since they were on the "patient zero" plant, I may as well post the photos here and see if anyone knows what they are and if they're good bugs or bad bugs. My gut says bad and makes me wonder if maybe the bugs are actually causing the issues. Anyway, photos.
green bug.jpg
teeny bug.jpg
Mostly, I'm curious about the top one, the green bug. I've never seen anything of the sort before. And the second one I'm not sure what type it is. It's very small. Hard to see and get a photo of it but it looks like some sort of teeny beetle. Can flea beetles be brown? I think I saw it hop around like one. And, on top of both of these bugs found on the plant, I saw an aphid. Where there is one, I'm assuming there's more. So now I get to try to combat two issues at once. Unless the first issue is caused by the bugs.

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applestar
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

I think the first one is a katydid juvenile, though we're only seeing the front end. Did it have "grass hopper" back legs?
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TexasGardenGirl
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

applestar wrote:I think the first one is a katydid juvenile, though we're only seeing the front end. Did it have "grass hopper" back legs?
No grasshopper type legs. It was small, and I couldn't see its legs. It flew off if I tried to catch it.

ETA: Posted this in the other forum I'm a part of (the bug part, not the tomato part) and someone said the green one is a leaf hopper and the other is a flea beetle like I thought it might be.

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applestar
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

OK, if it was tiny, it may have been a leafhopper. Have you noticed what looks like blob of spittle (bunch of tiny bubbles) on plant stems? Usually a bit lower down? This is called "spittle bug" and is a hiding place for leafhopper juvie that can't fly yet. They suck on plant juices.

If you rub off the "spittle" -- slimy, sticky -- and examine, you will find green or yellow soft bodied nymph in there.
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TexasGardenGirl
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

applestar wrote:OK, if it was tiny, it may have been a leafhopper. Have you noticed what looks like blob of spittle (bunch of tiny bubbles) on plant stems? Usually a bit lower down? This is called "spittle bug" and is a hiding place for leafhopper juvie that can't fly yet. They suck on plant juices.

If you rub off the "spittle" -- slimy, sticky -- and examine, you will find green or yellow soft bodied nymph in there.
I haven't noticed any but I have been so focused on the foliage. I probably wouldn't have noticed the bugs if I hadn't been pruning.

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Re: Tomato issues *again*

I have bacterial spot in peppers but not much on the tomatoes. For one thing I have very disease resistant tomatoes. Unfortunately there are not resistant pepper varieities. Because I plant tomatoes, peppers and eggplant and they are all in the same family, and I do have a small yard, I practice early isolation and cut my losses. I recently pretty much destroyed all my pepper plants and seedlings because of suspected bacterial spot. One plant was not that bad and I cut it back and it grew back fine. Some seedlings had black spot and they had to go out too. I don't try to save plants with suspected bacterial disease. I yank them quick. I waited a couple of months before replanting. I had more seedling problems but they may have been seed borne so I got rid of that batch of seeds. Right now the peppers I have do not have bacterial problems. They do have issues with mites, but it is that time of year and the rain should help that.

About 4 years ago I had a problem with momotaru getting tomato yellow leaf curl virus. I did not plant tomatoes for two years. Momotaro was the only tomato that showed symptoms and the other tomatoes did not, but I pulled all of them anyway. I sterilized the soil in a steam sterilizer and I bleached the containers. I had to wait until the vector generations died out since they carry the disease for life. I planted beans, peas, sugar baby water melon, and cucumbers instead in the pots. I no longer attempt to grow momotaro tomatoes. I know some people just want tomatoes and will keep trying but for me in the long run it worked out better to rotate in time to reduce the chances of repeated failures. I tried Champion and Charger which are TYLCV resistent but they do not taste very good, so I went with using the space for other things that I could use instead. I don't eat a lot of tomatoes and I have other sources to get tomatoes so it is not a big problem for me to do without them for awhile.

If you want to plant certain things you have to keep a step ahead of the problem. If you have a lot of the same plants, disease will spread like wildfire so for me, I just cut my losses if picking off the infected leaves does not work and it looks like it is not under control, I cut my losses and get rid of the plant or plants to prevent it from spreading. Bacterial diseases do not have as long a waiting time as vector transmitted diseases or spore diseases like downy mildew. If you are able to get rid of the plants before they spread and get rid of the debris and sanitize, you should be able to plant again provided you can find clean seeds.
I still would not try to plant in exactly the same spot for a while. If your plants did not do well there anyway, a different location may actually be better. Tomatoes can and do grow wild anywhere in my yard so I have a lot of good spots. Most of the wild tomatoes are coming from the birds eating my tomatoes and dropping the seeds all over the place. The wild ones actually take the least amount of care and are usually good tasting because the birds only go after the best fruit.
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Lindsaylew82
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

The reason I tend to lean toward septoria, is because she has had so much rain. Fungal issues develop here after a good 2-3 days of rain and cloudy cover, and she has had a week's worth.

After reading up more, and looking at dozens of pictures, the two look (and live and spread) very similarly.

I keep seeing one key factor in bacterial spot. That is: if the bacteria is seed borne, the smaller seedlings show obvious sign of BS. Not so with septoria, although, it's a little early here to be seeing signs yet. Did your seedling/transplant look like that when you got them?

If you're suggesting pulling plants, that means nothing tomato can be grown there for some time.... From what I've read on BS, it can stay in the soil for up to 3 years. I say if nothing can be grown there next year, and the next, and the next anyway, why not let the plants grow, and see what happens this year. I think if things dry out, and it is something fungal, you may start seeing results. Not so if pull a plant based on something that isn't proven.
(I would still grow plants next year though, if it were me... If I can't grow tomatoes, I don't care to grow... :() )
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TexasGardenGirl
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

Lindsaylew82 wrote:The reason I tend to lean toward septoria, is because she has had so much rain. Fungal issues develop here after a good 2-3 days of rain and cloudy cover, and she has had a week's worth.

After reading up more, and looking at dozens of pictures, the two look (and live and spread) very similarly.

I keep seeing one key factor in bacterial spot. That is: if the bacteria is seed borne, the smaller seedlings show obvious sign of BS. Not so with septoria, although, it's a little early here to be seeing signs yet. Did your seedling/transplant look like that when you got them?

If you're suggesting pulling plants, that means nothing tomato can be grown there for some time.... From what I've read on BS, it can stay in the soil for up to 3 years. I say if nothing can be grown there next year, and the next, and the next anyway, why not let the plants grow, and see what happens this year. I think if things dry out, and it is something fungal, you may start seeing results. Not so if pull a plant based on something that isn't proven.
(I would still grow plants next year though, if it were me... If I can't grow tomatoes, I don't care to grow... :() )
It definitely didn't look all spotty when I got it. And it started with one before others were hit. Bit I DID find an aphid on the plant. Where there's one, there's bound to be more. I had someone tell me it looked like aphid damage. Either way, I don't want the damaged leaves there because they'll just die anyway. So I cut it back, and we'll let new growth decide if black prince will stay. But I won't expect much of a yield from it at all.

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Re: Tomato issues *again*

Mine are literally COVERED in aphids right now! Here's a pic of them on one of my plants:

Image

Nothing looking like yours..... Yet!

One aphid isn't too much to worry over.
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

Lindsaylew82 wrote:Mine are literally COVERED in aphids right now! Here's a pic of them on one of my plants:

Image

Nothing looking like yours..... Yet!

One aphid isn't too much to worry over.
Yikes! The one I aw was a green aphid. Bit the guy on my other forum said what most likely happened was aphids snacked on the leaves and then the week of rain caused a fungus to set in at the spots of damage. Which makes sense to me. So I'll treat with the neem oil and some soap and hope no more/minimal damage happens. But all the rain seems to be drowning my pepper plants in too much water. Not a lot I can do about that. The soil can only drain so fast. And it's sandier than I'd like so it drains almost too well most days. I was only watering my peppers when it looked like they were close to wilting. But it looks like my starts that I started too late (but was going to grow in containers) may be my main peppers.

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Re: Tomato issues *again*

Hopefully it will dry out soon. It's early, yet!

Prolly wouldn't hurt to add a 1/4 cup of milk to the neem (assuming you mix it in a sprayer with a gallon of water.) oil. Also helps with fungus! Aerated compost tea helps as well.
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

Lindsaylew82 wrote:Hopefully it will dry out soon. It's early, yet!

Prolly wouldn't hurt to add a 1/4 cup of milk to the neem (assuming you mix it in a sprayer with a gallon of water.) oil. Also helps with fungus! Aerated compost tea helps as well.
I totally forgot about milk! A 1:1 milk/water solution added to zucchini also makes them grow HUGE. I'll have to go spray everything. But it's pretty pointless if the rain is gonna wash it away. So hopefully there will be some sunshine soon.

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Re: Tomato issues *again*

That is a lot of aphids. I haven't seen many aphids in any of my gardens for years except for one sickly kale. My garden patrol takes care of them.

If you want to try to save the plants all you can do is keep picking off the leaves and practicing good sanitation. The rain will make that very hard and you will have to retreat every 3 days or so. Neem is not a very good fungicide after the fact.

To clarify a point. Bacterial diseases don't always show up on the seedlings. The environmental conditions like humid wet conditions is what makes the disease express itself.

I rotate in time. I can wait a couple of years for disease pressure to drop. Other things can be planted instead, they just have to be resistant. The point in rotation is to deny the bacteria ior fungal spores a food source. Most pathogens are host dependent and different species grow on different plants so bacteria that attack cabbages are not the same ones that attack tomatoes. However, within the same family, the diseases may still be transmittable. Sanitation is usually the best way to do that. Mine are grown in pots so I can sanitize the pots and the soil. I can usually replant after a couple of months. But I don't plant in the exact same spot.

When it rains a lot and I have not done some premptive spraying, I usually start over since I have been down this road before and in my warm humid climate the faster I get rid of the diseased plants the sooner I can plant again.

However, if you want to keep trying and you think it may be something you can keep ahead of, then try it.
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

imafan26 wrote:That is a lot of aphids. I haven't seen many aphids in any of my gardens for years except for one sickly kale. My garden patrol takes care of them.

If you want to try to save the plants all you can do is keep picking off the leaves and practicing good sanitation. The rain will make that very hard and you will have to retreat every 3 days or so. Neem is not a very good fungicide after the fact.

To clarify a point. Bacterial diseases don't always show up on the seedlings. The environmental conditions like humid wet conditions is what makes the disease express itself.

I rotate in time. I can wait a couple of years for disease pressure to drop. Other things can be planted instead, they just have to be resistant. The point in rotation is to deny the bacteria ior fungal spores a food source. Most pathogens are host dependent and different species grow on different plants so bacteria that attack cabbages are not the same ones that attack tomatoes. However, within the same family, the diseases may still be transmittable. Sanitation is usually the best way to do that. Mine are grown in pots so I can sanitize the pots and the soil. I can usually replant after a couple of months. But I don't plant in the exact same spot.

When it rains a lot and I have not done some premptive spraying, I usually start over since I have been down this road before and in my warm humid climate the faster I get rid of the diseased plants the sooner I can plant again.

However, if you want to keep trying and you think it may be something you can keep ahead of, then try it.
I went out today and the plants look good. The black prince looks sad with so little foliage but it looks like it'll recover. I'll fertilize in a week or week and a half with water soluble fertilizer and hopefully that'll help. One of the unaffected branches actually has flowers on it. Here's hoping I can keep bugs and such from the fruits. Since tomorrow is payday I'll go get myself a good insecticidal soap and I'll use the neem oil to ward off any new fungus.

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Re: Tomato issues *again*

That is a lot of aphids. I haven't seen many aphids in any of my gardens for years except for one sickly kale. My garden patrol takes care of them.
Yes ma'am it is! And I'm on the verge of freaking out, but then I see some things going on. There is some type of maggot or larvae they're yellowish, unless they're attached to a potato aphid, then they turn that pinkish/red color. It's about 1/4 of the size of the aphids, and it's making them into aphid raisins. I took that picture last week some time, and it looks very different now. There are still a lot of potato and peach aphids, but there are more mummies, and today I'm seeing a LOT of aphid raisins. I keep trying to take pictures , but they are sooooo teeny tiny!

I'm also seeing growing numbers of lady bugs, and LOTS of ladybug egg clusters!

It's managing itself! Slowly but surely!
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

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Re: Tomato issues *again*

I need to attract some beneficial insects to my yard. Definitely gonna need them. Looks like I'll need to hit the garden center again for more flowers that attract stuff like ladybugs.

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Lindsaylew82
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

Honestly, I kind of think that the infestation is what is drawing them!

I'm so psyched about the Aphid Midge!!! They're literally all over the place! I think the tides have turned!
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

It also helps if you control the ants.
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

No ants present, but I agree!

This is the same plant tonight!

Image

There are several live aphids still present, but the number of aphid "raisins" far outweighs the number of live! And their days are numbered! This happened nearly overnight! I'm not exaggerating!

Having said all that, I can't see where there's any damage to the plants, even with large "infestation".


Texas, if I may make a variety suggestion, I would have you try Cherokee Purple. It does really well here in my garden! Tasty, too!

My cilantro is bolting as we speak! As are some radishes. There's lots of clover, and some little weed with tiny light purple flowers all over it (I should ID it....) that they seem to really like! Bolting herbs are great attractors of beneficials!

(ETA: whoops! Forgot the picture!)
Last edited by Lindsaylew82 on Tue May 31, 2016 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Lindsay
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imafan26
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

Yes now that a lot of flowers are blooming and it is warmer the predators have stepped things up. It is always good to have nectar and pollen plants blooming continuously.
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

I was out checking on the tomatoes as I do every night and I saw a ladybug on the black prince! It looked pretty happy. And it was still out there this morning! Then my dog scared it away. But, it being there, on that specific plant, feels like a good sign to me.

Lindsay, I wanted so badly to try Cherokee purple but I learned of it so late that I couldn't start from seed and I couldn't find it as a start anywhere. I'm going to be ordering lots of seeds to store and try out next season. I'm 100% already planning to get Cherokee purple. Since my great grandmother was 100% Cherokee it kinda called out to me. Random reason but hey, a little superstition doesn't hurt!

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Re: Tomato issues *again*

If you're interested PM me, and I can send you a link for mail order from the local greenhouse we use. The selection and quality are seriously amazing.

ETA:

It's not too late to put new plants in the ground right now!
Lindsay
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TexasGardenGirl
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Re: Tomato issues *again*

Lindsaylew82 wrote:If you're interested PM me, and I can send you a link for mail order from the local greenhouse we use. The selection and quality are seriously amazing.

ETA:

It's not too late to put new plants in the ground right now!
Thank goodness it isn't too late for planting new starts because the rain we've had destroyed my jalapeño and sweet bell pepper plants. Here's hoping the rain stays away for a bit.

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Re: Tomato issues *again*

On the suggestion of Lindsay, I'm gonna put a couple of mini eggplant in with my tomatoes as a trap crop for the flea beetles. Something about them liking eggplant better than anything else. Here's hoping that works.

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Re: Tomato issues *again*

An update: the black prince that was cut back majorly looks like I never pruned it! It's full, gorgeous, and almost double in size! And, I've got a tomato growing like crazy on it! Won't be long before it reaches full size and starts ripening! Since I planted the eggplant and the marigolds, I've seen zero flea beetle activity. I'm guessing the marigolds did it. But, it shouldn't be long before I'm picking tomatoes faster than I can use them!

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Re: Tomato issues *again*

(It was the eggplant! ;) )

I'm glad things are looking up for you!!!
Lindsay
Upstate, SC
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