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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

M.CF.F2.1F {Maglia Rosa x Coyote+FFSlv} F2 #1F -- these fruits show elongated and pointed characteristics of Maglia Rosa :-()

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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Subject: Applestar's 2016 Tomatoes (& peppers & eggplants)
applestar wrote:I finally have blushing maters :-()

On the left is my cross of Maglia Rosa and mixed pollen from several varieties. Last year's fruit was pink/purple, indicating the pollen donor was clear-skinned and either Coyote or Faelan's First Snow. This F2 generation looks to me like a clear skinned yellow/white like Coyote, but with Maglia Rosa shaped fruits, only smaller (elongated cherry with a rounded point). looking very sad with the TRM-induced russetting and zippering on the still-green fruits. The blushed fruit has a spot on it like it was even being sucked on by a nasty stinkbug.

On the right as it happens is a volunteer that I think could be a Coyote. It's a monster plant loaded with small cherry fruits.

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A new fruit cluster is developing in the photo to the right. They have long calyces that gives a hint that the size of the fruits are larger than small cherry.

The fruit clusters on the left are from another cross -- Whippersnapper x Faelan's First Snow lv F3.

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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

I'm excited to see three different fruit characteristics on these different plants of M.ZM.F2.4B {MagliaRosa x ZlutaKytice+Matt'sWild} F2 #4B Though some are similar in shape to the 1F above, these are elongated small cherry size.

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(Right-click Open Image for full size view)

Hmmm.... Now that I'm looking closer, that one on bottom left with a bug hole might be a 1F cluster -- I didn't think it was because of the multi-fruited large truss, but I do have a second plant. I need to verify later.

...oh! but having ruled out Zluta Kytice in 1F because of the fruit color, there wouldn't be a Multiflora potential for 1F, right? So maybe it IS another 4B type -- I have 5 or 6 plants.
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

I'm excited to see three different fruit characteristics on these different plants of M.ZM.F2.4B {MagliaRosa x ZlutaKytice+Matt'sWild} F2 #4B Though some are similar in shape to the 1F above, these are elongated small cherry size.

Image

Hmmm…. Now that I'm looking closer, that one on bottom left with a bug hole might be a 1F cluster – I didn't think it was because of the multi-fruited large truss, but I do have a second plant. I need to verify later.


...oh! but having ruled out Zluta Kytice in 1F because of the fruit color, there wouldn't be a Multiflora potential for 1F, right? So maybe it IS another 4B type -- I have 5 or 6 plants.
Yep. The cluster is growing on this plant marked 4B:
Image

.
.
.

First of the 4B segregates to blush (views from both sides) I'm loving the sort of teardrop shape of the fruits.

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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

MRxCF.F2.1F -- today's fruits were slightly larger than those from the first truss as you can see in comparison to today's Coyote fruits, and the color with less damage by the TRM looks even more of a match to Coyote. Those first sorry-looking ones tasted a lot like Coyote, so anticipating to taste these:

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MRxZM.F2.4B -- these had split from the heavy rains yesterday. I'll have to remember to pick them earlier next time. There were two fruit types today -- the lightly orange-yellow marbled exterior of the teardrop-shaped ones is reminiscent of the F1 fruits but the round ones that split without even blushing are new. I think the heavy russetting had made the skin lose elasticity and prone to cracking, so looking forward to seeing how the less affected truss in the bottom left photo matures.

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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Whew! I don't know how you keep up with all that! Nice worm Ma'am! Nice work!
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Thanks Lindaay :D (worm=work I assume :> ) haha don't worry about it. :wink:
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

M.CF.F2.1F {Maglia Rosa x Coyote+FFSlv} F2 #1F - Plant #1
This truss is mostly free of TRM russetting and the fruits are bigger. They seem to have lost the pointy end that I think was seen on lower truss fruits of the same plant, but that can be environmental -- pointy fruits occur more frequently in cooler weather. I wrote 9 but I think there are actually 10 fruits on this truss (the heavily russetted one at bottom right I know is on a lower truss)

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Small cherries are Coyote. The larger round cherry is from the mislabeled plant that I think may be Raymondo's Australian Mist. Runty russetted 4th fruit is one of this cross from a lower truss. (And the heavily russetted pink heart is a Fish Lake Oxheart -- first indeterminate this season -- so it's obvious that a heavy TRM infestation can significantly reduce fruit size)
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

I like worm better!! I shall keep it! :()
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

As you can see in this photo -- White grape cherry MRxCF.F2.1B.P1 (Maglia Rosa x Coyote+Faelan's First Snow F2 1B Plant #1) size and shape are somewhat variable on the same plant. I think I'm going to lay all the fruits I have so far on a graph paper or something and take a picture so difference is obvious. I'm kind of excited that the fruit size is going to be larger than initially indicated -- it makes a more tasty mouthful. :D

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Clock-wise:
Red cherry MRxZM.F2.4B.P1 (Maglia Rosa x Zluta Kytice+Matt's Wild), White currant Coyote, green striped mystery volunteer plant died while fruits were green, red currant unID'd volunteer most likely Matt's Wild, green Berner Rose accidentally snapped off while trying to support. One green chickpea pod.

(First Gochugaru Yong Gochu pepper 고추 가루 용 고추, 2nd Kamo eggplant and 2nd Fish Lake Oxheart)
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

MRxZM.F2.4B (Maglia Rosa x Zluta Kytice+Matt's Wild F2-4B)

Plant 2 on the left, Plant 1 on the right. There is also a Plant 3 not labeled in the front around this spiral tomato stake, and I believe three more plants around another spiral stake)
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Plant2 fruits which have not ripened yet are elongated with a point. :()
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

WSxFFS F3.WWL (Whippersnapper x Faelan's First Snow lv F3-Winter Wonderland)

Image

...on the F1, the fruits took a long time to ripen after reaching this solid pink stage...
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

MRxCF.F2.1F.P1. For comparison, most of the small cherries to the left half of the container are Coyote, one larger white cherry with calyx is the suspected Raymondo's Australian Mist, and two yellow cherries on the rim with green jalapeños are Gold Pearl Bonsai.

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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

MRxZM.F2.4B Plant 1 (round fruits), Plant 2, Plant 4

For comparison, small red cherries in the top right quadrant are Matt's Wild Cherry. The yellowish fruit at top left got knocked off off accidentally, but it's a Plant 4 fruit.

In the yellow/white container, most of the small cherries to the left half of the container are Coyote, one larger white cherry with calyx is the suspected Raymondo's Australian Mist, and two yellow cherries on the rim with green jalapeños are Gold Pearl Bonsai.

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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

WSxFFSLv.F3.WWL

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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

MRxZM.F2.4B Plant 1 (red, round fruits)
MRxZM.F2.4B Plant 2 (muddy red, grape shaped, some are more elongated with a point), (orange grape shaped with point?)
MRxZM.F2.4B Plant 4 (pronounced swirly red and yellow, teardrop shaped )

Image

For comparison, small red cherry is a Matt's Wild Cherry. Small white cherries are Coyote.

...I'm thinking even Plant 1 fruits are not quite solid red like Matt's Wild.
...I checked several times and those orange, grape shaped with point fruit truss is coming from a side shoot vine near the bottom of Plant 2. Maybe they are going to ripen from this to the muddy red and yellow?
...the appearance of the Plant 4 marble/swirly red yellow teardrop fruits are my favorite. Haven't tasted it yet though.

...white grape fruits are from MRxCF.F2.1F Plant 1 and they can be slightly larger (taller but thinner) than MRxZM.F2.4B Plant 2 fruits which are slightly more rounded.

...larger pingpong ball sized, pink pointed heart shaped fruits are from WSxFFSlv.F3.WWL
Image
...some have more pronounced point than others. Haven't been able to ascertain whether they are growing on different plants.
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

A new segregate has ripened -- designated MRxCF.F2.1F-P2 -- Plant#2 of Maglia Rosa x Coyote+Faelan's First Snow lv F2.1F

Plant#1 has the excellent flavored white grape. First three fruits of Plant#2 (front and to the right of the 1F-P1 fruits in the white bowl) were round pink cherries that are larger than Coyote but smaller than the round red cherries of MRxZM.F2.4B-P1

Image

I tasted one and it had very thin skin and excellent sweet, rich flavor but milder than the Coyote (which my DD described as "in your face" :lol: )

I noticed last time, and confirmed again this time that 1F-P1 fruits are somewhat more peachy pink tinted than Coyote. The color is closer to Raymondo's Australian Mist which had a couple of fruits with slightest Blossom end blush among the many harvested yesterday. Maybe these have the potential to develop a blush as well?


Image Raymondo's Australian Mist with BE blush
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Another segregate started fruiting from the MRxZM.F2.4B line. I guess I'll call it Plant 3 since the other Plant 3 hasn't done anything and may even have died off -- can't tell for sure in the jungle.

The fruits are grape shaped like Plant 2 but have distinct stripes when green and are ripening yellow. I hope this one tastes good because I like the color. I decided I'm not thrilled with the red round, thick skinned Plant 1. My favorite so far has been red-yellow marbled tear-drop shaped Plant 4.

Image

The pink grape on the right is actually another segregate from the MRxCF.F2.1F line. I guess this will be Plant 3 as well. Both the white grape Plant 1 and pink round Plant 2 have been tasty. Let's hope this segregate is as well.

This season is like opening a mystery box of chocolates. :()
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

I really like the color of this new segregate. :D

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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Image
MRxZM.F2-4B.p1 (red round),p2 (red grape),p3 (yellow striped pointed grape),p4 (red/yellow blended tear drop)
MRxCF.F2-1F.p1 (white grape),p2 (pink round),p3 (large pink tear drop)
WSxFFSlv.F3 (pink egg)
Image

Vernissage Yellow, Raymondo's Australian Mist, Amethyst Cream, Coyote
Sun Thai, Gochugaru yong Gochu, Hanoi Market g2
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

[Whippersnapper x Faelan's First Snow less variegated] F4 pointed egg/heart

My poor seedlings. Between the mite attacks, which however was fortunately not as severe as last year thanks to the predatory mites, the stupid see-saw weather that shot up into the 90's then plunged too often into the lower 40's during the hardening off process when I couldn't drag them back inside, never-accurate weather forecasts, and any number of other excuses, they look quite pitiful as they are going in the ground ...so much later than normal.

I have 6 of them planted here. Their variegation have faded (are hard to discern) due to the cold-stress yellowing plus some sunburn. I don't know if any of them are dwarf/short -- I think I lost those last year so haven't carried them forward. (will have to try the mass seed sowing again next year from previous generation seeds).

Image

Hopefully, they will recover and show us what they got. I planted some of the the overgrown peas next to them to hopefully help nurse them along. Image
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

{Maglia Rosa x (Coyote+Faelan's First Snow lv)} F3 -- several segregates:

Image
Image

I'm bummed not to see any variegation. I'm guessing these were from the Coyote pollinated seeds, though it might help if I did several generations of mass sowing starting with the F1 seeds.
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

These are some of my Maglia Rosa x (Coyote and Faelan's First Snow) F3 segregates. Early to mature.
So excited to see the different shapes in the baby fruits, but I must remember that the fruit characteristics were those of the F2 and what these will look like --and taste like-- still remains to be seen....

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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

I am excited to see ALL THESE fruit shapes in the MRxCF F3 segregates. A little surprise, too, which I'm not sure how to interpret -- I will followup about that later. (Click for enlarged, zoomable view)

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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

I emasculated a few blossoms this morning. I meant to only practice, but it was just like riding a bicycle. :()

I did bruise the stigma of the very first one by accidentally pinching with the forceps, and had to remember the trick of holding the sepal close to the base to keep the flowerbud steady.

Image
Marz Pulcent, Maskotka, WSxFFS F4, MRxCF F3 white cherry, Sgt. Pepper's.

I got impatient with one of the tiny MRxCF buds and accidentally pulled the stigma off. But after doing all the little flowers, Sgt. Pepper's huge flowerbuds were a breeze.
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

I'm going to post an update after the cross-pollinated flowers start to show fruit development. Anyway, here's another one -- this one is a megabloom of Dwarf Blazing Beauty:

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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

This one came from some abandoned fruits from last year. I had them in a container to process, they started to "ferment" on their own... past prime and fruitflies got thick and ugly in there, and I didn't want to deal with them at the time so I pushed the container out the back door. It eventually got shuffled under the patio table -- frozen and forgotten...all winter. :oops:

When I discovered them in spring, they looked ...fine. So I recovered some of the seeds and started them. :>
So glad I did too because I'm getting such varieties in shapes from different plants, and this one is intriguing me. These are larger than grapes or even elongated grapes. Almost but not quite as big as Maglia Rosa I think ...yet... but those stripes must be from Maglia Rosa.
IMG_4019.JPG
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

WS.FFS F4 heart 8.16.16 ChLn
Image

The plant on the left has the most extremely variegated stems. It is very short and is looking like a determinate.
I hope it will get a little bigger. The gorgeous white splashed leaf to the right of it belongs to the plant loaded with all these green fruits.
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

M.CF.F3
16-1F.P3
elongated/pt pink grape cherry
Sept'16

This one deserves a photo by itself. It's very strange. I can't decide it's super wispy or something is wrong with it. I gave it a Spiral stake all to itself, but it is only this tall. It's from a different elongated/pt pink grape cherry, not one of the abandoned fruits.

Image


--- edited to add ---

The color of this plant seems a bit blue-ish to me. I noticed similar effect on on of the WS.FFS F4, like it was organizing colors so yellow color is more in the variegation, making the rest of the leaf looking a bit blue-ish. Does it seem like the near-left leaf in this photo has the slightest variegation? Maybe there was a bee cross happening last year.
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Image

We had a heat wave and many other tomatoes ended up dropping a lot of their blossoms without setting. Ha. Really gotta check the weather before attempting to make crosses.
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Image
...so it turns out closer examination revealed that those round cherry fruits I have been assuming was on a plant from a cherry segregate are actually growing on one of last year's white grape segregate – "5.22 M.CF.F3.P1 white grape Jul'16" – that was grown in a PT (paper tube). The other plant on the same spiralstake is also from white grape as expected.

Image

The harvest photo shows the lemon yellow at ripe fruits with translucent skin which will probably be clear epi when scraped -- defined as "white" in tomato color parlance. (Many so called "yellow" tomatoes ripen to yellow-orange color, such is the way of tomatoes.).

Only plant from a white cherry segregate is sharing spiralstake with a WSxFFS F4. That's the one that had the multi-truss... (I need to check and see what that truss is doing now).


And in an appropriate mirror show of reversal, a segregate growing from a small cherry -- "M.CF.F3 16-1F.P2 small pink cherry Sept'16" -- is growing grape shaped fruits this year:

Image
...hopefully it will still be pink.


I'm wondering if, at this point, can I just assume pollen donor for these particular segregates was Coyote? --- i.e. These are Maglia Rosa x Coyote F3?
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Image

Having harvested these today, I tasted the small two lowest truss "MR.C F3-1 white cherry" fruits and two of the larger next truss fruits previously harvested. Oooh they were YUM-MEE! :() The gel was full flavored -- tangy sweet front-end, full-bodied middle umami, and lingering flavor that was not acidic but memorable, and the flesh and the very thin, edible skin were very sweet and kind of fruity.

(Excuseme) I couldn't bear to chew up and swallow the seeds. I rolled them on my tongue to sort out the flavors, then spat them out -- they will be saved. :> (I do thoroughly wash the seeds when saving :wink: )
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Harvested the first two fruits from the Whippersnapper x Faelan's First Snow F4. It is continuing to exhibit the early-maturing Whippersnapper trait. I only grew the seeds from a heart-shaped segregate, and these fruits have very pointy, adorable heart-shape.

I decided to name this segregate WS.FFS F4 "Jack Frost's Early Love" for the frosty white splashes of variegation in the seedling and early cooler weather growths and the early-maturing, pink heart-shaped fruits. I'm looking for a sweet front-end flavor profile along with the full flavor middle umami and lingering tangy end note that I like, and will continue to select for strong leaf variegation.

This particular plant seems to be shorter than the one with indeterminate growths behind it, which would be a plus especially if I could grow it in the Winter Indoor Tomato line-up -- it may be a determinate as well.

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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Harvested these 2 white cherries and a white grape. I assumed they were from the same Maglia Rosa x Coyote F3 segregates as before, but when I was taking these photos, I noticed that one of the cherries has a slight pink/red blush that swirls from the blossom end up. I have to trace the vines and verify to morrow, but I'm tentatively designating this one MR.C F3-3.

The other, larger cherries that were harvested before seem to have developed this swirl as well. So the small white cherry (MR.C F3-1) and the white cherry blush are probably separate.

Image

I will also have to go back and verify the grape since it is completely round-bottomed and has no trace of a point. The point could be environmental but it might be from another plant since there are others with similar ovoid-grape shaped fruits.
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

One more from my cross that really made me happy today :D

This is the plant that was attacked by the stalk borer. I was afraid it was going to die without getting the chance to ripen the super cool-looking elongated, pointed, striped fruits ... but look at it now -- it has started to blush! Image

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I had a name picked out for this Maglia Rosa x (Coyot or Faelan's First Snow) F3 Abandoned Fruit segregate, but now I'm thinking this might be a determinate, which might make the name not fit -- I was trying to bag floral trusses today, and I can't find any that are not already setting fruits, and I couldn't find any growing shoots except for a very tiny sucker that might be starting to grow.

I left it alone in hopes that it WILL grow another shoot and floral trusses for me to bag....

Is there any chance THIS particular segregate might have been from Faelan's First Snow as the pollen donor?
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applestar
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Maglia Rosa x Coyote F3

MR.C F3-A1

I'll REALLY excited about this segregate (from the abandoned elongated pink grape fruits) with irregularly shaped, striped, elongated pointy fruits.

I've decided to call this one "Wild Rosa"-- partly because of the wild-type Coyote father and to contrast with "Maglia Rosa" that to me sounds like a quiet obedient girl. At first I was disappointed to see that this one looks like a Determinate, but may be "here today, gone tomorrow" kind of vibe would work.

Can you see how sort of iridescent and pearly it looks? I took so many pictures but it was really hard to capture. (I'll only make you suffer through four ...well 4th is a collage :P

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Maybe you can see the difference in this group shot, next to the familiar tomato red Maskotka.

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MR.C F3-A2

Her first sibling to blush and almost ripen turned out to be a smallish cherry -- I think bigger than typical Coyote, and very yellow but need to wait for the scraped epi -- it should be clear though. That first fruit looks ripe, but failed the "give to the touch" test so I left it on the truss for today.
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applestar
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

:idea: I think I changed my mind about the name almost as soon as I posted. I have another name I had reserved for a different segregate, pending its 1st fruit ripening, but I might give that name to this one.... I guess I'd better sleep on the idea before posting again.... Image
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applestar
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Wahhh -- I'm stuck. :|

I cut open the first two fruits of MR.C F3-A1 I harvested on 7/28 -- segregate that I was thinking of calling "Wild Rosa" but changed my mind and was considering giving it another name.

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It turns out to have yellow epi. At F3 and seeds from pink clear epi elongated cherry F2 fruit ... Does that rule out Coyote as the pollen donor?

It has a lovely salty-sweet -- not sugary sweet but no initial acid, mild tomato-y sweetness -- at the front end, then full of umami flavor from the gel that expands in the mouth. Just when you think you are not getting any acid tang, there it is, a lingering tingling sensation that lasts and leaves your mouth watering. I love it. Image


...I need a little input from those of you who are following this thread.
The special name I had on reserve for another segregate is based on "Eos Rhododactylos" which means "Rosie-fingered Dawn"-- I think the swirly, pearly, metallic colors on this segregate really do remind me of particularly gorgeous sunrises.

I thought about calling it "Eos" but there are commercial cosmetics and some other companies using that name so I don't want to use "Eos" by itself, as cool as that is in its own way -- i.e. short one-word name.

Do you think I should name MR.C F3-A1 segregate ---
- "Wild Rosa" -- as originally described
- "Eos Rhododactylos"
- "Rosie-fingered Dawn"

...not even considering "Dawn" -- that is etched in my mind associated with -- "dish 'soap', likely detergent"

Please tell me which you think is the best name for this segregate in your opinion and your reason why. ;)
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applestar
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

MR.C F3-A1 will be "Wild Rosa". Image

Here is a sister segregate to Wild Rosa which I am designating (MR.C F3-A3) and calling it "Molten Sky".
Have you ever seen a photo of sunrise or sunset when the sky looks like it's on fire -- red with golden streaks and swirls?

"Molten Sky" looks like this at peak ripeness:
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It is sweeter than Wild Rosa. WIld Rosa at peak ripeness has an in-your-face tomato flavor and building salty umami and lingering tangy acid. But Molten Sky starts with sweet flavor at the front end and building fresh fruity flavor with no detectable acidity. I had swallowed and concluded that there isn't going to be the lingering acid that I like, then BAM! It hits you with a wash of really sharp sensation that tingles your taste buds.

My official tomato taster DD prefers Wild Rosa even though she usually likes sweet tomatoes.

Molten Sky fruit shape is mostly even, largish elongated cherry, whereas Wild Rosa is all over the place, skinny neck, even curved like an eggplant, small to large, and sometimes straight elongated cherry. I think they might both exhibit pointed blossom end when temperatures are cooler, although Molten Sky seems to tend to be rounded and Wild Rosa tends to be pointed.

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Here's another difference between the two --
applestar wrote:I also decided to scrape some more Molten Sky skin and compare with Wild Rosa skin to compare their epi because I wanted to see if they were different...
--- THEY ARE! :o

After scraping until they seemed to have disappeared on my cutting board -- The pink-tinted skin are from Wild Rosa and yellow-tinted skin are from Molten Sky. Now are they clear or yellow epi?
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applestar
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

One of my goals this season was to find dwarf/short segregate in the Maglia Rosa x Coyote F3 line so they can be grown in containers like Maglia Rosa. I think these two might be what ai am looking for. At first l was disappointed that they seemed to be both white grape shape, but it looks like one is more elongated than the other with potential to become larger fruited. Hopefully these will have similar flavor profile as the others. So far they have not disappointed. :-()

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