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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

SOOOO EXCITED!!!

I noticed this F2 seedling of WS x FFSlv from the #7 plant is showing variegation on its leaves :-()
image.jpg
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

...and now WS x FFSlv F2 has a first floral truss -- very low on the plant and showing multiple suckers early on, which may be trait inherited from Whippersnapper, which is a sprawling type variety good for growing in hanging baskets. Just need it to grow a little more to see if this one will be, too. Also keeping an eye on the internodes to see it this is going to show more of an indeterminate growth like the Faelan's First Snow (variegated Cherokee Purple possible cross). 8)
image.jpg
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

image.jpg
...couldn't help posting this morning's picture with first blossom to unfold. :>
It's a little hard to tell with all that going on, but the variegated leaf in the bottom left is one of its leaves.

(And yes, there are actually TWO floral trusses :-() )
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Here are some F2 seedlings from Maglia Rosa x ZCMWF F1 Plant #4B (these F2 seedlings will be designated MRxZCMWFlv F2-4B). It's interesting to note the obvious differences in leaf shapes. I'm not good at telling the indeterminate growth patterns apart from possible Maglia Rosa type wispy short (not genuine dwarf) growth patterns, but I'm hoping to see them segregate into distinct patterns. So far, I'm not sure if the shorter ones are just slow....
image.jpg
To make it easier to compare, I'm growing some Maglia Rosa seedlings:
image.jpg
Biggest plant still in the garage (2 views of a same plant)
image.jpg

During the winter, the number of seedlings I can grow are limited. But I wanted to get a jump on the next generation. It will be possible to try to grow more during the main growing season next year.
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

MR x ZCMWF -- Here are two other lines of this cross I'm going to pursue -- F2-1F, from the #1F plant with small pink cherries, and F2-5B, from the #5B plant with small red cherries:
image.jpg
...another picture of #1F fruits:
image.jpg
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Still scrambling to cobble together and organize my notes on this one. :oops:

MR x SFM -- Maglia Rosa x (mixed pollen from Stump of the World HBR, Faelan's First Snow less variegated, and Manö)

I was MOST intrigued by these fruits on #2F plant. I'm not growing the F2-2F seeds this winter, but will be growing them for the main season next year.
image.jpg
image.jpg (47.7 KiB) Viewed 4998 times
...but looking back at the photo I posted of 1F, I need to go back and find those, too. I believe 1F was the earlier and more productive plant (the cluster of four fruits in front of 2F's *may* have been 1F's.... But 2F fruits were much bigger on a shorter plant, I believe... And had the prominent nipple/point. For comparison, the two elongated cherry in the photo (one split) are Maglia Rosa.
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

WS x FFSlv F2-7
image.jpg
...looks like I need to uppot to a final container :shock:
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Dwarf Arctic Rose x Utyonok F1

...this one was started early -- in fact on schedule for Winter Indoor growout. But it seems like that was actually its undoing, because this one and another variety I started on time were rapidly overcome by severe TRM (tomato russet mite) infestation.

I can't tell if the stress was the reason that all of the seedlings ended up with a single fruit before deteriorating. First one barely managed to ripen its fruit.
image.jpg

Consider the history of the Dwarf Arctic Rose mother -- It originally grew a terminating floral truss with a mega fruit, then was overrun by TRM, then grew new side shoots and grew on with normal growth structures and masses of loaded floral trusses.

Subject: 2014-15 Winter Indoor Tomatoes... + sugar snaps and cucumber
applestar wrote:Here's another look at the two Dwarf Arctic Rose plants. One put out a megabloom while still small and set a single fruit very early on, then stayed out in the cooling garage V8 Nursery and took a long time to mature the fruit, but when the garage temp fell into 40's it was brought inside while the large fruit still green. The other plant was brought indoors relatively early on, but became infested by TRM and struggled to mature the first cluster of three fruits.

They are both still in the 1/2 gallon rice milk cartons.
Image
The three smaller fruits are 1.5", 1.75" and 2" at widest diameter. The mega fruit is 3"
Subject: 2014-15 Winter Indoor Tomatoes... + sugar snaps and cucumber
applestar wrote:Can you believe this is the Dwarf Arctic Rose that had the mega fruit on terminating main trunk?
Image
I kept it in an isolated but less ideal location, so it's a bit spindly but the new sucker is free of TRM. I buried the rootball that was in the 1/2 gal rice milk container all the way at the bottom of this 2 gal bucket, so I think it will sit and take stock, then take off in this new location in the upstairs SE facing window. I'll top the container with additional fresh potting mix in another month or so.

You can also see the double-OJ containers planted with Utyonok which has replaced the Coyote. It has two tiny floral trusses starting to grow.

...and perhaps you can also see that the outer window is frosted this 14°F morning and there is snow on the ground outside. :o
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Subject: 2015-2016 Winter Indoor (Tomatoes, etc.) Garden
applestar wrote:Whippersnapper X Faelan's First Snow F2 -- although it had many more fruit clusters that started to form on the 4-5 upper branches, none of them opened enough to set fruits. I'm not sure if that was because of the sudden dip in temperature we experienced, the darkest days of the year, or what.

Now the lower cluster of fruits are finally starting to blush and the entire plant is starting to yellow, but this looks more like Determinate senescence that the Whippersnapper mother went through when I grew them last year. So it might just be that its time is up. :|

Image

These pink (clear epi) fruits were distinctly sweet even though they were grown in the Winter Indoor Garden :D

One other possibility that I can think of is that one of my DD's has been using the nearby computer every night and staying up until the morning sometimes, leaving the plant lights on all night -- I wonder if that could affect a determinate variety tomato to burn through its lifespan faster...?
Subject: 2015-2016 Winter Indoor (Tomatoes, etc.) Garden
applestar wrote:
Whippersnapper x Faelan's First Snow F2

Image
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Now I'm growing the F3 seeds of Whippersnapper x Faelan's First Snow lv, and three of the seedlings are showing first hints of variegation on their 2nd set of true leaves :-()
image.jpeg
image.jpeg (46.68 KiB) Viewed 4808 times
Since the F2 had variegated leaves, this is as expected. I'm growing a whole bunch of seedlings to select the best variegated offsprings. :()
image.jpeg
...these won't be showing variegation for a while though....
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

This is not my cross, but the breeder is trying to get a combination of variegation and antho expression.

Paddymc's Blue Variegated Tiger F2

I wasn't going to look at them tonight -- I already looked glanced at them this morning Image...but the tomato tots are at that difficult age when they keep touching the light bulbs no matter how many times you tell them "NO" and restrict them. :roll:

(Sing-song) ~Do you see what I see?~
Image



*** ACTUALLY, I would love to hear from people with more experience looking at antho and variegated expressions. What DO you see? I got the macro lense out to get close ups of these leaves:

Image

But don't get excited about the extra antho leaf's pale spots -- this one might have been touching light bulbs. :| But I will keep an eye on it. Image
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

What you do with all the tomatoes? You must either sell them or eat them daily! As for the variegation i don't know much about it but i think they may look pretty. But must have good tasting fruit if im gonna grow them. There are alot better ornamental plants other than tomatoes.

Didnt know the word Antho so i looked it up and its from greek and means flower? That threw me away even more all i see is leafy looking leaves. I see some odd leaf shapes tho.
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

First variegated tomato seeds I ever obtained was from Faelan's First Snow. This was a tomato plant discovered among a flat of Cherokee Purple and wisely snatched up I believe by an employee of the garden center. He grew it out and saved seeds from a fruit that looked every bit like the other Cherokee Purple he was growing. He grew the saved seeds the following year and realized that he was getting variegated plants again. At this point, he grew out the best ones he had and offered the seeds from the resulting fruits on a tomato forum and I jumped at the chance. The finder with screen name Lochlain(n?) was encouraged to name his find, and Faelan's First Snow was the name he chose.

I was fairly new at this so I just grew as many seeds as I could and had decent results. But more experienced growers and hobby breeders grew hundreds and selected the best variegated plants with which they made crosses with other varieties, some with pre-existing variegated varieties that were known to have excellent variegation but mediocre fruits.

So there are quite a few on-going and segregating crosses that are being stabilized now.

But mine are self pollinated and still have that Cherokee Purple type fruits -- clear skinned, dark, luscious, lingering great flavor as well as decent beefsteak size though not huge. I don't know if the tomato experts have concluded that the original find was a Cherokee Purple sport (Spontaneous mutation). Apparently, the circumstances and influencing factors were not sufficiently controlled to make a definitive determination, although the story has been told and re-told and discussed on several tomato and gardening forums by the individuals involved.

I'm getting ready to uppot the seedlings from the more variegated plant in 2014 (Last year, I only grew the less variegated due to seedling failure). Some of these are looking very nice. I'll post better photos later on.
Image
---

antho was my shorthand for anthocyanin. Here's a good article: https://horticulture.oregonstate.edu/purple_tomato_faq
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Subject: Applestar's 2014 Tomato Gardens
applestar wrote:Took this picture at the last minute so please excuse the sloppy presentation.
We ate the First Faelan's First Snow

Image
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Thanks for the background applestar it sounds very interesting indeed. It looks like a perfect slicer i would make thick slices and put them on a sandwich. Very nice looking tomato i really like the color!

Thanks for the links and clearing out my misunderstanding! Google aint always that helpfull ha! Im slightly familar with the anthocyanin and its called antocyanin in Swedish. Sometimes you just need help to get things right!
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Tomato, W.Flv.F3 {Whippersnapper x FFSlv} F3 WWL
image.jpeg
-- I need to uppot these variegated selections into separate containers Image
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Now they look really nice with that purple veins along with the variegation!
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Whippersnapper x Faelan's First Snow less variegated F3
(WSXFFSlv F3)
Image

They are showing the shorter internode characteristics of Whippersnapper, so we are looking at a short indeterminate or short determinate, making it different from FFS which is a medium indeterminate like Cherokee Purple. The amount of variegation is close to, or in some cases more intense than the Faelan's First Snow more variegated that I'm growing this year, though FFSmv is also displaying variegated stem and leaf veins which is way cool). Now to see what kind of fruit we get in this generation :-()
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

We have 6 CP this year! It's one of our faves, so if you are looking for someone to grow out and trial this year's seed!!!!....WE VOLUNTEER AS TRIBUTE!!! This is SO NEAT! We've never grown a variegated tomato! A fish pepper, once..
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Slow going here due to the TRM infestation setback, but these few have survived and are almost completely recovered :() We WILL have those next generation fruits (and seeds) yet! :-()

MRxCFlv F2-1F
Image


MRxZM F2-4B
Image


...I might have this wrong, but Im assuming that if the fruits were pink, then that rules out the yellow epi Zluta Kytice or Matts Wild Cherry, leaving Coyote or Faelan's First Snow as possible pollen donors for 1F.

....By the same reasoning, if the fruits were red with yellow epi, the n that rules out clear epi Coyote or Faelan's First Snow, leaving Zluta Kytice or Matts Wild Cherry as possible pollen donors for 4B.



WSxFFSlv F3 (WWL '16)
Image
...variegation is still expressing occasionally, especially on interior new leaves that are hard to photograph :?
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

M.CF.F2.1F {Maglia Rosa x Coyote+FFSlv} F2 #1F -- these fruits show elongated and pointed characteristics of Maglia Rosa :-()

Image
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Subject: Applestar's 2016 Tomatoes (& peppers & eggplants)
applestar wrote:I finally have blushing maters :-()

On the left is my cross of Maglia Rosa and mixed pollen from several varieties. Last year's fruit was pink/purple, indicating the pollen donor was clear-skinned and either Coyote or Faelan's First Snow. This F2 generation looks to me like a clear skinned yellow/white like Coyote, but with Maglia Rosa shaped fruits, only smaller (elongated cherry with a rounded point). looking very sad with the TRM-induced russetting and zippering on the still-green fruits. The blushed fruit has a spot on it like it was even being sucked on by a nasty stinkbug.

On the right as it happens is a volunteer that I think could be a Coyote. It's a monster plant loaded with small cherry fruits.

Image

A new fruit cluster is developing in the photo to the right. They have long calyces that gives a hint that the size of the fruits are larger than small cherry.

The fruit clusters on the left are from another cross -- Whippersnapper x Faelan's First Snow lv F3.

Image
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

I'm excited to see three different fruit characteristics on these different plants of M.ZM.F2.4B {MagliaRosa x ZlutaKytice+Matt'sWild} F2 #4B Though some are similar in shape to the 1F above, these are elongated small cherry size.

Image
(Right-click Open Image for full size view)

Hmmm.... Now that I'm looking closer, that one on bottom left with a bug hole might be a 1F cluster -- I didn't think it was because of the multi-fruited large truss, but I do have a second plant. I need to verify later.

...oh! but having ruled out Zluta Kytice in 1F because of the fruit color, there wouldn't be a Multiflora potential for 1F, right? So maybe it IS another 4B type -- I have 5 or 6 plants.
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

I'm excited to see three different fruit characteristics on these different plants of M.ZM.F2.4B {MagliaRosa x ZlutaKytice+Matt'sWild} F2 #4B Though some are similar in shape to the 1F above, these are elongated small cherry size.

Image

Hmmm…. Now that I'm looking closer, that one on bottom left with a bug hole might be a 1F cluster – I didn't think it was because of the multi-fruited large truss, but I do have a second plant. I need to verify later.


...oh! but having ruled out Zluta Kytice in 1F because of the fruit color, there wouldn't be a Multiflora potential for 1F, right? So maybe it IS another 4B type -- I have 5 or 6 plants.
Yep. The cluster is growing on this plant marked 4B:
Image

.
.
.

First of the 4B segregates to blush (views from both sides) I'm loving the sort of teardrop shape of the fruits.

Image
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

MRxCF.F2.1F -- today's fruits were slightly larger than those from the first truss as you can see in comparison to today's Coyote fruits, and the color with less damage by the TRM looks even more of a match to Coyote. Those first sorry-looking ones tasted a lot like Coyote, so anticipating to taste these:

Image


MRxZM.F2.4B -- these had split from the heavy rains yesterday. I'll have to remember to pick them earlier next time. There were two fruit types today -- the lightly orange-yellow marbled exterior of the teardrop-shaped ones is reminiscent of the F1 fruits but the round ones that split without even blushing are new. I think the heavy russetting had made the skin lose elasticity and prone to cracking, so looking forward to seeing how the less affected truss in the bottom left photo matures.

Image
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Whew! I don't know how you keep up with all that! Nice worm Ma'am! Nice work!
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Thanks Lindaay :D (worm=work I assume :> ) haha don't worry about it. :wink:
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

M.CF.F2.1F {Maglia Rosa x Coyote+FFSlv} F2 #1F - Plant #1
This truss is mostly free of TRM russetting and the fruits are bigger. They seem to have lost the pointy end that I think was seen on lower truss fruits of the same plant, but that can be environmental -- pointy fruits occur more frequently in cooler weather. I wrote 9 but I think there are actually 10 fruits on this truss (the heavily russetted one at bottom right I know is on a lower truss)

Image

Small cherries are Coyote. The larger round cherry is from the mislabeled plant that I think may be Raymondo's Australian Mist. Runty russetted 4th fruit is one of this cross from a lower truss. (And the heavily russetted pink heart is a Fish Lake Oxheart -- first indeterminate this season -- so it's obvious that a heavy TRM infestation can significantly reduce fruit size)
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

I like worm better!! I shall keep it! :()
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

As you can see in this photo -- White grape cherry MRxCF.F2.1B.P1 (Maglia Rosa x Coyote+Faelan's First Snow F2 1B Plant #1) size and shape are somewhat variable on the same plant. I think I'm going to lay all the fruits I have so far on a graph paper or something and take a picture so difference is obvious. I'm kind of excited that the fruit size is going to be larger than initially indicated -- it makes a more tasty mouthful. :D

Image
Clock-wise:
Red cherry MRxZM.F2.4B.P1 (Maglia Rosa x Zluta Kytice+Matt's Wild), White currant Coyote, green striped mystery volunteer plant died while fruits were green, red currant unID'd volunteer most likely Matt's Wild, green Berner Rose accidentally snapped off while trying to support. One green chickpea pod.

(First Gochugaru Yong Gochu pepper 고추 가루 용 고추, 2nd Kamo eggplant and 2nd Fish Lake Oxheart)
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

MRxZM.F2.4B (Maglia Rosa x Zluta Kytice+Matt's Wild F2-4B)

Plant 2 on the left, Plant 1 on the right. There is also a Plant 3 not labeled in the front around this spiral tomato stake, and I believe three more plants around another spiral stake)
Image

Plant2 fruits which have not ripened yet are elongated with a point. :()
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

WSxFFS F3.WWL (Whippersnapper x Faelan's First Snow lv F3-Winter Wonderland)

Image

...on the F1, the fruits took a long time to ripen after reaching this solid pink stage...
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

MRxCF.F2.1F.P1. For comparison, most of the small cherries to the left half of the container are Coyote, one larger white cherry with calyx is the suspected Raymondo's Australian Mist, and two yellow cherries on the rim with green jalapeños are Gold Pearl Bonsai.

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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

MRxZM.F2.4B Plant 1 (round fruits), Plant 2, Plant 4

For comparison, small red cherries in the top right quadrant are Matt's Wild Cherry. The yellowish fruit at top left got knocked off off accidentally, but it's a Plant 4 fruit.

In the yellow/white container, most of the small cherries to the left half of the container are Coyote, one larger white cherry with calyx is the suspected Raymondo's Australian Mist, and two yellow cherries on the rim with green jalapeños are Gold Pearl Bonsai.

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applestar
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

WSxFFSLv.F3.WWL

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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

MRxZM.F2.4B Plant 1 (red, round fruits)
MRxZM.F2.4B Plant 2 (muddy red, grape shaped, some are more elongated with a point), (orange grape shaped with point?)
MRxZM.F2.4B Plant 4 (pronounced swirly red and yellow, teardrop shaped )

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For comparison, small red cherry is a Matt's Wild Cherry. Small white cherries are Coyote.

...I'm thinking even Plant 1 fruits are not quite solid red like Matt's Wild.
...I checked several times and those orange, grape shaped with point fruit truss is coming from a side shoot vine near the bottom of Plant 2. Maybe they are going to ripen from this to the muddy red and yellow?
...the appearance of the Plant 4 marble/swirly red yellow teardrop fruits are my favorite. Haven't tasted it yet though.

...white grape fruits are from MRxCF.F2.1F Plant 1 and they can be slightly larger (taller but thinner) than MRxZM.F2.4B Plant 2 fruits which are slightly more rounded.

...larger pingpong ball sized, pink pointed heart shaped fruits are from WSxFFSlv.F3.WWL
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...some have more pronounced point than others. Haven't been able to ascertain whether they are growing on different plants.
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applestar
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

A new segregate has ripened -- designated MRxCF.F2.1F-P2 -- Plant#2 of Maglia Rosa x Coyote+Faelan's First Snow lv F2.1F

Plant#1 has the excellent flavored white grape. First three fruits of Plant#2 (front and to the right of the 1F-P1 fruits in the white bowl) were round pink cherries that are larger than Coyote but smaller than the round red cherries of MRxZM.F2.4B-P1

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I tasted one and it had very thin skin and excellent sweet, rich flavor but milder than the Coyote (which my DD described as "in your face" :lol: )

I noticed last time, and confirmed again this time that 1F-P1 fruits are somewhat more peachy pink tinted than Coyote. The color is closer to Raymondo's Australian Mist which had a couple of fruits with slightest Blossom end blush among the many harvested yesterday. Maybe these have the potential to develop a blush as well?


Image Raymondo's Australian Mist with BE blush
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

Another segregate started fruiting from the MRxZM.F2.4B line. I guess I'll call it Plant 3 since the other Plant 3 hasn't done anything and may even have died off -- can't tell for sure in the jungle.

The fruits are grape shaped like Plant 2 but have distinct stripes when green and are ripening yellow. I hope this one tastes good because I like the color. I decided I'm not thrilled with the red round, thick skinned Plant 1. My favorite so far has been red-yellow marbled tear-drop shaped Plant 4.

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The pink grape on the right is actually another segregate from the MRxCF.F2.1F line. I guess this will be Plant 3 as well. Both the white grape Plant 1 and pink round Plant 2 have been tasty. Let's hope this segregate is as well.

This season is like opening a mystery box of chocolates. :()
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applestar
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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

I really like the color of this new segregate. :D

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Re: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

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MRxZM.F2-4B.p1 (red round),p2 (red grape),p3 (yellow striped pointed grape),p4 (red/yellow blended tear drop)
MRxCF.F2-1F.p1 (white grape),p2 (pink round),p3 (large pink tear drop)
WSxFFSlv.F3 (pink egg)
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Vernissage Yellow, Raymondo's Australian Mist, Amethyst Cream, Coyote
Sun Thai, Gochugaru yong Gochu, Hanoi Market g2
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