Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

[applestar]

I *think* I’m seeing Striped/variegated calyx on the blossom upper left —

[applestar]

This is Shimofuri#1-2 F5 — I’m in love!

A close-up —


Variegated/striped calyces, too —


Gorgeous colors!

(Bottom-right — Shimofuri#1-1 F5 is also showing some of the wild colors.)

[applestar]

Best striped/variegated fruit stems and calyces on some of the Shimofuri F5 fruits —



Close up of my favorite fruit truss so far with the nearest leaf —

[applestar]

First Shimofuri #1 F5 harvested!
- Pink
- Cocktail sized rounded “heart” although this one is blunted and has a barely discernible point
- I forgot to measure and weigh it — will add later



This one is from a previously numbered plant which I will number as #1-5 — I want to save seeds and start them right away as this winter’s first (and possibly only) Winter Tomato Candidate. Although it did not grow as spectacularly variegated leaves, you can see it has very nicely striped/variegated main stem and even has some white in the calyces. In addition, this is the one that has been showing the determinate bunched fruiting trusses on each branch, with some tendency to sweep down/sprawl, which may make it grow well in a a hanging basket. Great potential and looking forward to seeing what it does in the next generation.

[applestar]

Jack Frost’s Early Love F5 is a segregate of same Whippersnapper x Faelan’s First Snow cross as Shimofuri #1 and #2 F5. I saved the lines separately because last year, all of JFEL F4 fruits had a point and looked like hearts and Shimofuri F4 had been separated out because they had intense variegation and striped stems that weren’t there on JFEL F4

But in this generation, Plant #2 of Jack Frost’s Early Love has pretty significantly variegated stems and even the calyces. The one I harvested had some nice striping on one side of the calyx, but look at that still-green one. Oooh!



... I wonder if in this case, do I rename the F6 seeds from these fruits to join the Shimofuri segregates, or do I keep this as special line along the JFEL segregate?

[applestar]

I’m excited by this new development in the Molten Sky line. At least two of the F4 plants are producing what looks like clear yellow with gold streaks instead of red with gold streaks. The yellow version appears to be slightly earlier, too. I only have one good Molten Sky F4 fruit harvested so far. These red elongated fruits which I thought are Molten Sky are not showing any/significant striping/streaks....

— you can see the difference in the color of Molten Sky variant F4 when compared to other white and yellow tomatoes here. I’m naming the variant Molten Sun F4


— bottom-right fruit trusses are Afternoon Rosé F4

[applestar]

More Molten Sun F4 —



...also
- another Molten Sky F4 variant with no gold streaks
- Ladyfingers F4
- Coyote Rosa Bébé F4

[applestar]

- Molten Sky F4 — still green with stripes evident
- Molten Sky F4 - unstriped variant
- Molten Sun F4
- Molten Sun F4 with blossom end blush!
- Ladyfingers F4
- Afternoon Rosé F4

[wisconsindead]

So cool applestar. What is your favorite variety that you have bred? This looks like fun.

[digitS']

AppleStar,

. these are ..

. Beautiful!

Steve

[applestar]

Bumping this thread for anyone who wants to review how to collect tomato blossom pollen and hand pollinate one or more prepared blossoms to try cross breeding.

Note that you need to do this when environmental conditions are ideal and other tomato blossoms are setting fruit.

— In my garden, this week is OUT because we’re experiencing a sudden heatwave with temps in the 90’s, Also it gets too hot by mid-morning when the new tomato blossoms open -and you can differentiate good blossoms to emasculate- to stand in the sun futzing with tiny blossoms and minuscule delicate floral petals and anther cones.

[TomatoNut95]

Why the thanks? Ok, quick question- I was just checking my 'tomato jungle'. My Micro Tom has an unopened blossom on it, which I thhhiinkkkk...might be open tomorrow morning. My Black Beauty has unopened blossoms as well. I might attempt to cross. Can I use the pollen off one Black Beauty blossom, or should I use a few? And if the little fruit on the Micro Tom shows black shoulders, that should mean the cross took effect, correct? I will try to use my phone to collect the pollen, and dip the freshly opened Micro Tom blossom stigma into the pollen.

[applestar]

Nope. That won’t work.

You have to do a micro-surgery on the tomato blossom that will be the mother/female recipient by removing the anther cone while the blossom is still green with a hint of white in the bud. This involves carefully peeling and removing most of the still green/white flower petals* and then removing the anther cone (the cone separates into individual segments/sections. You will see that the anthercone is already yellow on the reason for this is that by the time the petals open, the anther cone is already producing pollen and dropping them on the same blossom’s stigma. This is how the tomato pollinates itself.

You need to remove the anther cone (called “emasculating” — hey, I didn’t name the procedure ) before that happens. Once the petals and anthercone are removed, the insects generally have no interest in the bare nekkid stigma (or so they say). Mark the emasculated blossoms. ** It’s important to remove any other potentially open blossoms in it’s vicinity so no stray pollen will be wind-carried to the stigma.

The pollen from the donor male blossom(s) should be collected approximately 12 and 18 hrs afterwards assuming you judged correctly — and applied while still fresh (directly) to the stigma which should then be bagged to prevent accidental exposure to any other pollen, and marked with the specific cross (female variety name x make variety name F1 — date {and time} of pollination if you wish)

* Remove half of the calyx petals when before emasculating and use the calyx and some of the petals to hold onto, then remove all of the petals and calyx when done. The lack of the calyx also makes it obvious for pollinating as well as identifying the fruit — unless the calyx becomes diseased and shrivel up by the time the fruit is ripe.

[TomatoNut95]

Hmm. I think I see why hybrid tomato seed is so expensive...crossbreeding sounds too hard to do! I wish you had some pictures for me to go by; I'm the type who likes pictures with their instructions. I learn quicker that way.....because I am dumb. Ok, to perform this 'surgery' on the itty bitty unopened female blossom to remove the itty bitty anther cone, what kind of itty bitty tool can I use?

[applestar]

I think you still haven’t read the this Learning to... thread? Ask me questions over there if not answered.

[applestar]

OK moved the last 4 posts HERE. (Oops we’re on the next page — the moved posts are on bottom of page 8 )

@TomatoNut95, fire away!

[TomatoNut95]

I have posted my own thread about my tomatoes called TomatoNuts tomatoes and peppers 2019!

[TomatoNut95]

Ok, now. I've read this, and taken notes. In order to cross, I am to carefully dig into the unopened 'female' blossom and remove the anther cone. After the female blossom opens, I collect pollen from the 'male' blossom by vibrating the open blossom with a battery toothbrush and dip the stigma of the 'female' into the pile of pollen. Am I correct so far? Do you have a close up photo of the female blossom with the anther cone removed? I'm the type who needs pictures with their instructions. I was thinking if possible I can cross a Black Beauty with my Micro Tom. And if the cross took, then the little Micro Tom fruit should show black coloring, right?


If I attempt the cross, I should do it in the morning, right? And the temperatures here have been in the mid-nineties. Is that too hot that the pollination may not take place? It hasn't rained for days, so no humidity I don't believe.

[applestar]

Ok, now. I've read this, and taken notes. In order to cross, I am to carefully dig into the unopened 'female' blossom and remove the anther cone. After the female blossom opens, I collect pollen from the 'male' blossom by vibrating the open blossom with a battery toothbrush and dip the stigma of the 'female' into the pile of pollen. Am I correct so far?

You have the procedure step by step. Only difference is the female blossom doesn’t “open” since you’ve already removed the sepals/calyces and petals. The idea is to separately mark a blossom at similar development as the one you operated on, and use that as the “indicator” of stigma readiness — when that one opens, the chosen female blossom stigma should also be ready to pollinate. (IIRC it’s about 8-18 hrs later — it really helps to just practice surgery on some blossoms — don’t just start cutting up the female blossoms you want to use unless you have plenty — but remember you also have to remove surrounding blossoms)

Do you have a close up photo of the female blossom with the anther cone removed? I'm the type who needs pictures with their instructions.

Subject: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

I emasculated a few blossoms this morning. I meant to only practice, but it was just like riding a bicycle.

I did bruise the stigma of the very first one by accidentally pinching with the forceps, and had to remember the trick of holding the sepal close to the base to keep the flowerbud steady.

Marz Pulcent, Maskotka, WSxFFS F4, MRxCF F3 white cherry, Sgt. Pepper's.
I got impatient with one of the tiny MRxCF buds and accidentally pulled the stigma off. But after doing all the little flowers, Sgt. Pepper's huge flowerbuds were a breeze.

Subject: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

I'm going to post an update after the cross-pollinated flowers start to show fruit development. Anyway, here's another one -- this one is a megabloom of Dwarf Blazing Beauty:

I was thinking if possible I can cross a Black Beauty with my Micro Tom. And if the cross took, then the little Micro Tom fruit should show black coloring, right?

...not quite unless you mis-described it. The resulting fruit should look like any other Micro Tom fruit, but without sepals/calyces since you removed them. You will mark this female blossom/fruit in any case in some way. It’s the saved F1 seeds from this fruit which may or may not show some recognizable characteristics. Antho, while dominant, may only be expressed slightly in the first generation, but can be selected for more significant expression from among the progeny in subsequent years/generations.

If I attempt the cross, I should do it in the morning, right? And the temperatures here have been in the mid-nineties. Is that too hot that the pollination may not take place? It hasn't rained for days, so no humidity I don't believe.

Optimum pollination temperature is 60’s to low 80’s. 90’s is probably too hot.

[TomatoNut95]

Why would I need to remove the other blossoms around the blossom I'm working with if I blossom bag or don't have any insect activity. I NEVER see insects mess with tomato blossoms. Honesty, I haven't seen many bees around here.

[applestar]

Subject: Applestar’s 2019 Garden

Molten Sun has volunteered in the same VGC/D bed F4 was growing in. This should make this year’s plant F5 with the fruits bearing F6 seeds.

It’s very difficult to capture on the iPhone cam, but compare the matte-white grape with the row of Molten Sun from the same plant — can you see the metallic/shiny streaks? The effect is enhanced in the sunlight by the clear/yellow striped epi and the translucent flesh underneath, as well as the faint blossom end blush.



...from July 18, 2018...

I’m excited by this new development in the Molten Sky line. At least two of the F4 plants are producing what looks like clear yellow with gold streaks instead of red with gold streaks. The yellow version appears to be slightly earlier, too. I only have one good Molten Sky F4 fruit harvested so far. These red elongated fruits which I thought are Molten Sky are not showing any/significant striping/streaks....

— you can see the difference in the color of Molten Sky variant F4 when compared to other white and yellow tomatoes here. I’m naming the variant Molten Sun F4

— bottom-right fruit trusses are Afternoon Rosé F4

[applestar]

I sorted through the Molten Sun F4/F5 and sister lines — harvested to date and now ripe, and discovered Molten Sun has a close branch sibling in the matte frosty/butter yellow Buttermints line — these are same size and shape as Buttermints, but like Molten Sun, are translucent and striped with faint pink blush. I’m calling them “Sun Mints F4/F5”

Harvested:


Ripe:

- it was really difficult to obtain the correct color under the fluorescent lights and I had to fiddle with photo editor. The result is a little more intense (darker yellow) than actual

— These are technically “white” with clear epi. The epi looks yellow to me where Molten Sun and Sun Mints are striped and/or pink blushed, but I have been instructed that epi pigment can‘t be truly distinguished without scraping the flesh completely, and I’m not sure if I’m doing that correctly.

— You might be able to see that part of the overall translucent appearance comes from the almost clear flesh. The striped appearance may be result of translucent yellow flesh vs. clear flesh that show up through the clear epi.

— I tried REALLY scraping some of the blushed Buttermints and Sun Mints — when all of the yellow and blushed pink flesh are thoroughly scraped off, the epi pieces became completely clear.



* Molten Sun fruit is an extra elongated, sometimes pointed, grape cherry with potential to develop larger fruits as the vine matures. It has the intense tropical fruit front end and umami similar to its parent Coyote, with full-flavored middle and lingering acid tang, although when tasted in direct comparison, it is somewhat milder and not as in-your-face roughness.

* Sun Mints fruit is an elongated, sometimes pointed, small/currant cherry with wider shoulders than the narrower blossom end. It is similar in flavor as Molten Sun, but has more of a pure acid burn that lingers on — sort of like cinnamon flavored “mints”.

* I need to taste more samples to be sure, but it seems like blushed Buttermints and blushed Sun Mints with tiny streaks of pink flesh have extra sweetness to them.

[lakngulf]

I surely do not know anything about cross breeding tomatoes, but I do know that if you have different varieties too close together they are likely to cross breed. (**Who does the scrapping in that case? ha ...just kidding).

Some time back the Webmaster offered seed from Boar Farms I believe. Included in the package was one variety I really like, called Amos Coli (based on guys name I believe). These are small to medium pear shaped, very tasty tomatoes. I decided to save some seed.

Well, well the next year I had some LARGE Amos Coli, still very tasty. I looked back at the planting chart and some Brandywine were very close to the Amos Coli......

So......I named the new variety Amos and Brandy......some of you older folks will get it!

[applestar]

That sounds delicious — how cool is that?

Amos and Brandy, huh? — I had to look it up, but the reference is a fun homage to the show(s) that must have been an amazing development in entertainment. If you keep saving seeds from subsequent generations and grow them out, you might start seeing small% of potato leaf seedlings and also pink (Clear epi) fruits. I’d love to see where this goes.

[applestar]

Today, I compared Shimofuri F6 fruits from VG.SIP-front left (FL) and VG.SIP- front right (FR). I cut up all the fruits I had so far — harvested during comparable time frame in the past week — and tasted the bottom quadrant of each fruit.



Overall, FR fruits were larger and were SWEET with tasty umami and lingering tang, while the FL fruits were watery and lacked the flavor complexity I’m looking for. FR plant had better variegation and slightly better disease resistance, and perhaps a bit more compact growth habit that I was hoping for, since I want try to select this line to be a patio container/hanging basket variety with sprawling determinate vines that would drape down from the edge of the container. I decided to save the FR seeds and not the FL seeds.



Representative FR fruits were mostly 1.4 oz and had slightly wider shoulders compared to the rounded blossom end. Equatorial cross section was often very slightly oval and there were more 3-locule fruits than 2-locule fruits.
1.6 in x 1.6 in x 1.7 in ~
1.6 in x 1.65 in x 1.7 in

SEEDS are at F7


.....

Here is an earlier detailed description of the FR — another point in its favor was that it had matured and started producing about 2 weeks earlier:

Shimofuri F6 VG.SIP-FR 2019

PLANT DESCRIPTION
- Good variegation in stems and calyces, Purple/pink stems
- keeps var in part sun location, but new growths in full sun lack variegation
- non-dwarf long internodes (*would love to try crossing with a micro-dwarf*)
- determinate heavily loaded trusses with sprawling vine habit may be trained to hang down
- SUSCEPTIBLE TO SEPTORIA AND EARLY BLIGHT especially after loaded with green developing fruits


FRUIT DESCRIPTION
- pink cocktail 1.1 oz ~ 1.5 oz, 1.25” x 1.5” ~ 1.5” x 1.75”
- oblong heart shape with pointed blossom end when cool, but loses point in heat
- tender clear epi
- Fresh front end, mildly sweet umami, lingering acid
- Tendency to split when overwatered — better to harvest at full blush and ripen indoors
- Skin-deep split will heal over but deteriorate faster
- Not a long keeper when split and loses sugars when overripe — better just ripe
- Unsplit, whole fruits can keep longer and develop more complex umami as long as not damaged by sucking insects

SEEDS are at F7

[applestar]

So, here they are at F7, and I have been growing them as my 2019~20 Winter Indoor Tomato project —

Shimofuri F7 VG.SIP-RF segregate, showing signs of determinate floral trusses (2 views with red arrows indicating terminating branches)

Even with the limited indoor lighting, they are growing with shorter internodes that I had hoped for, so under more intense outdoor light exposure, they might be even more compact? I’ll have to wait until next year to find out.

As you can see, they are not displaying a whole lot of variegated foliage, but they have been tantalizing with glimpses of the variegation POTENTIAL in the leaflets:

[TomatoNut95]

That is beautiful! If you don't mind my asking, what breeds did you mix to get the Shimofuri? It was a shame I did not get to attempt my own cross this year, the weather was so unagreeable. Maybe next year.

[applestar]

Haha. If you want to read the full history about Shimofuri, all you have to do is read this thread from the beginning. I have been posting ad nauseum ...I’m not sure if anybody is reading — I wouldn't be surprised if everybody has gotten tired of me jumping up and down, trumpeting, waving, and blathering on

...but to answer your question, Shimofuri is Whippersnapper x Faelan’s First Snow.

[TomatoNut95]

Lol, I just CANNOT get over the beautiful variegation of the Shimofuri! I own a Variegated tomato(FINALLY) and may attempt to cross it with a dwarf, such as Micro Tom or Tiny Tim. But the first main thing I was going to shoot for in crossing was dark fruit on a dwarf, such as crossing a Black Beauty or Blue Berries(if I get that variety) with Micro Tom or Tiny Tim. What I really need, is a list of the dominant and recessive traits of tomatoes to help me better on what the outcome of my crosses may be. I recall you said dwarf genes are recessive? Meaning the cross I MAY get, probably will not be a dwarf?

[applestar]

...

As for the genetics and basic concept of what kind of progeny these may produce, this is always a good guide:

Tomato Gene Basics
(in an eggshell)
kdcomm.net/~tomato/gene/genes.html

...you may have seen it before.

—ETA—
(…oh darn it! Tomato Gene Basics
(in an eggshell)
www.kdcomm.net/~tomato/gene/genes.html is not a secure https site so I can’t create a link. It’s a really good representation though…)

[TomatoNut95]

Thanks a million! That is VERY helpful information for me!

[applestar]

Soooo excited! I am ready to try crossing a Shimofuri (霜降り) segregate with a micro-dwarf

Two emasculated Shimofuri (霜降り) F7 HBR-FR flower buds and the intended pollen donor micro-dwarf Aztek floral cluster with nearly ready to open flower buds. The 2 Shimofuri (霜降り) buds were at approximately the same developmental stage. I believe I can expect to be able to attempt first pollen collection and pollination tomorrow night or Thursday morning.


- Aztek wasn’t my original intended pollen donor for this cross — I was trying to grow a pink fruited micro-dwarf for this Winter’s Indoor Tomato project. But all three seedlings failed early on. So Aztek it is.

... First Shimofuri (霜降り) F7 VG.SIP-FR tomato fruit is blushing

[TomatoNut95]

EEEEEEEEEE!!!
Let me know when you get a variegated micro dwarf, I will be DYING for seeds!! Or is that what you're aiming for? My 2020 annual Baker Creek shows a new release of an orange-fruited Micro Tom and I was like....awwwww, man; I want that! (But I say that about anything neat that I don't have...)

[applestar]

Aztek flower buds are still tightly closed. Maybe they take longer than the Shimofuri buds to open? Or maybe I misjudged. Hopefully the 2 prepared Shimofuri stigma will remain receptive. A couple more buds will be available to emasculate tomorrow.

[applestar]

One Aztek opened this morning, and I collected pollen and pollinated the prepped Shimofuri (霜降り) blossoms in the morning. At the same time, I emasculates another flower, but the Aztek had no more pollen.

But just now, I was able to collect a nice pile of pollen from the same Aztek blossom and pollinated all three.


I’ll attempt a third try in the morning for the first 2 blossoms and a second try for the 3rd. Technically 2 pollination attempts should be enough and sometimes 3rd is unnecessary or in advisable so as not to damage the stigma. I’ll take a good look in the morning first.

[applestar]

Succeeded in emasculating 2 Aztek blossoms this morning Botched a third one

Can’t decide which makes the process more difficult — the small stubby floral structure, short stubby pedicel (floral stem) in clustered truss, or the impossibly hairy fuzz


...I know when creating a cross, it’s a good idea to attempt both varieties AxB as well as varieties BxA (mother x father) because some traits are sex-linked. I believe this has been established for some of the variegation genes ... can’t remember if micro-nizing genes are also affected?

[TomatoNut95]

Good luck, @applestar!

[applestar]

Thanks!

[applestar]

Looking promising




...2nd ripening fruit and 3rd blushing fruit

[TomatoNut95]