Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

[applestar]

Here are progress photos of this year’s growout for Shimofuri(霜降り)F9 and the new project — [Shimofuri(霜降り)F7 x Aztek] F3 :

[applestar]

Looking at the Shimofuri(霜降り)F9 more closely —



I think I see three shades of green (dark, medium, and pale) plus the variegation lack of color/white.

Strictly speaking, to me, depending on whether looking at the older bluish green leaf to the right or the newer yellowish green leaves at the top/center, the yellowish newer leaves seem to have butter cream-colored variegation and three yellowish green tones, and the bluish older leaves have the white/egg shell-colored variegation and three bluish green tones.

Then, as my dd has pointed out, the stems with the purplish (antho or cool response to cooler nights?) striping is causing the stem green shades to be duskier…. I love the purple magenta-purple expression. Not all of them get this, and I’ve been keeping seeds from those that do.

[applestar]

I found the first photos of Faelan’s First Snow I posted …from 2016!

---

I love variegated tomatoes. These varieties add a whole another level of anticipation during seedling stage.

Here are first three to show their first hints of variegation -- Faelan's First Snow from the more variegated selection from 2014. It's actually not the most anticipated in terms of level of variegation expected, but it's still a thrill when the variegation starts showing up on the second set of true leaves.



...since many of these are still segregating, unstable cross-breeding projects, fruit quality can be uncertain except for Faelan's First Snow strain that I have been growing since I was given some of the seeds from the first discovery a few years back. I was lucky in that this one has always produced good sized Cherokee Purple type and flavor fruits, which has been considered a confirmation that FFS is indeed a sport or a mutation of Cherokee Purple.

… and later on in the same thread —

This variety has seen more years than my crosses of dedicated selection by various hobby gardeners for beautiful variegation patterns. (And I can anticipate similar advancement in the variegation patterns in the lines for my own crosses.)

I can’t entirely take credit for this year’s progress since my stock became variable, and I received a sample of best selection seeds from a friend a couple of years ago (Sept’2017 seeds). Faelan’s First Snow I’m growing this year are a couple of generations of seeds saved from her line.

[applestar]

BTW I’m a little bit concerned about the narrowness of these leaves. I hope I haven’t muddied up my Faelan’s First Snow stock again. But these particular plants above are grown from seeds out of properly Cherokee Purple type fruits.

I guess we’ll find out once those first blossoms set and bear fruits (encouraged that they appear to be BIG sized blossoms).


Last year, I discovered FFSX (in the same grow out last year) which exhibited great variegation, was a bit wispy foliages, and ended up with medium sized red hearts on a productive short (4~5 ft tall) plant.

This year, I selected seedlings from those fruits that appear to have dwarf or possibly microdwarf characteristics. They have minor levels of variegation so far.

[applestar]

Update on [Shimofuri(霜降り)F7 x Aztek] F3:

Some of the S7xA.F3 segregates are starting to fruit. I cannot wait to see what they look and taste like! (…I’ll need to think about how to designate them individually so I can keep track of their fruits… A,B,C?)

This time, I tried to put together a collage that individually highlights them in terms of stature and growth habit, foliage shapes, etc.

— My F7xA.F3 crosses in the Spiral Garden are exhibiting the dwarf and microdwarf like characteristics I’m selecting for as well as the intensifying variegation in the genepool, although the better variegation is still being expressed by plants with taller but possibly sweeping characteristics inherited from Shimofuri(霜降り).

…

Here is a collage with more pics of FFSX as well as a couple of Captain Lucky with the fabulous butter -yellow splash on one of the leaflets.

[imafan26]

Always great to see the crosses you have made especially the variegated ones. I have never heard of some of these tomatoes. Good work Applestar!

[applestar]

This has been such a fun project

Here’s progress photo collage of the S2xA.F3. We’re starting to see the differences in fruit sizes and shapes in addition to plant height and growth forms — I’m going to pursue variegated segregates of each type, with emphasis on variegation patterns and fruit flavor/eating quality.

[imafan26]

How many of the crossed tomatoes are you growing to stabilize the cross? How many generations are you up to?

[applestar]

Yeah this thread is getting confusing if you’re trying to follow the crosses.

Right now, out of the Whippersnapper x Faelan’s First Snow lines, “Shimofuri(霜降り)” is the most advanced/mostly stable at F9 in my garden and F10 or F11 with my friend at Bunnyhop Seeds/Heritage Market.

She also fast-track developed and is offering “Ladyfingers” (I think as still ‘experimental’ and not ‘stabilized’ ) which was out of the Maglia Rosa x Coyote line. I’m growing some of the other (not yet declared stabilized) named F6/F7 stage segregates from the same line.

“Dwarf Arctic Rose x Utyonok” is at F4 in my garden — down to a single segregate line unless something new/different shows up among the three plants.

There are other crosses — two of which I’m growing F1’s for the first time — in various stages of stabilizing segregates with different characteristics.

There are intentionally overlayered new crosses like “Shimofuri(霜降り)F7xAztek” and a couple with unexpected emerging traits that may or may not be due to accidental bee cross.

Last two are too early to narrow down— still looking at traits and finalizing desirable characteristics to pursue and stabilize.

I haven’t actually counted how many there are in all — to me they are all fascinating and intriguing possibilities

I’d send you some seeds @imafan, if we could figure out how, because it would be valuable to find out if any of them can be acclimated to Hawaii’s environment.

[imafan26]

It is hard to send seeds without a sanitary certificate. It will be confiscated if they find it in the mail. Not to mention the import/export certificates.

I tried coyote. It is too hot here to grow it. So unless the crosses are made from crosses that tolerate a wider range of growing conditions. like Early Girl, the northern varieties that are "cold tolerant" don't like hot humid climates. This is true of other seeds as well like peppers and corn. I have the best luck with vegetable cultivars that will grow in Southern Florida or Texas that are subtropical and disease resistant.

[applestar]

My friend grows them on the Gulf coast. But yeah the regulations for seed sending makes it tough.

[applestar]

Preliminary excitement for the S7xA.F3 — {Shimofuri(霜降り)F7 x Aztek} F3 segregates!

One of the (FT3) line yielded the VERY FIRST tomato to be harvested this year.

It has swirly markings which may just mean its epi is clear, revealing subcutaneous veins, and this is a pink fruit.

The fruit is definitely larger than Aztek but smaller than Shimofuri(霜降り). Keep in mind the fruits may develop pointed blossom end when temperatures are cooler.

This plant has a medium stature among the three heights represented — Not quite the shortest micro-dwarf type in the front to the right (a BS6 line). You can see some foliage with variegation — not a lot but enough to work with.

Upper branching stems are longer and arching — a wispy line — so may still turn out to be “sprawling” and suitable for hanging basket cultivation.

Although tallest plant type among them, I’m super intrigued by the plant with fruits that are ripening yellow (a BS6 line). This will introduce a completely different fruit color from Shimofuri(霜降り) to a plant that is showing promisingly variegated patterns (This one was the best out of all of them.)

The taller growth pattern and size/shape of fruits so far are reminiscent of Shimofuri (霜降り) and may offer a yellow fruited selection.

[applestar]

First S7xA.F3 to be harvested are literally my first TOMATOES to be harvested this season.

FT3-f —
*harvested yesterday and today (7/16, 7/17)
*probably pink (TBD)
*rounded ovoid (likely potential to develop pointed blossom end in cooler than 90’s°F = mini heart?)
*average weight 25.4g

BS6-t —
*harvested today (7/17)
*probably yellow (narrower ovoid, one with point = mini heart? pointed ovoid?)
*average weight 27.3g

[applestar]

Reaching back in my stash to pursue the two other cross breeding projects from 2014, which is when Shimofuri(霜降り) project was also started

Plant of each in the front is shorter and possibly determinate.

Plant(s) in the back are growing like indeterminates.

Both types offer many exciting possibilities.

[applestar]

Whippersnapper #2(WWLw) x Stump of the World? F1 HBR’14.9

Whippersnapper #2(WWLw) x Stump of the World? F1 HBR’14.9

—

Maglia Rosa #1(WWL) x Stump of the World?HBR + Faelan’s First Snow LV + Manö) F1 2014

Maglia Rosa #1(WWL) x Stump of the World?HBR + Faelan’s First Snow LV + Manö) F1 2014

[applestar]

It’s Christmas in July!!

This is just a screen captured photo library collage. Will report in detail later — mustn’t jump to conclusions — !!BUT!! it looks to me like the third S7xA.F3 BS6 just might be

(1) a micro dwarf type
(2) and bicolor fruited
(3) with variegated foliage

— all three characteristics — that I was hoping to capture.

[applestar]

‘Molten Sky (紅蓮の空)’ F6/F7 (Maglia Rosa x Coyote+Faelan’s First Snow) — still trying to figure it out along with sibs. (‘Ladyfingers’ has been released by Bunnyhop as experimental variety already. And some folks have reported success growing in hanging baskets).

Some sibling segregates are true indeterminate cherry type, but this one seems to be settling down to a shorter — about 4.5~5 ft — semi-determinate growth pattern. Everything terminates, then new side shoots start growing (until frost in the past seasons — we’ll see how it goes this year). Foliage is droopy/wispy.

Fruits on large full trusses (10 minimum) are elongated ellipsoid — with point in cooler temps — with some variations in shape and size between and within trusses.

Fruit will not come off the vine until ripe, with or without callix (pedicel elbow joint will not break off until ready),

Drought followed by overwatering will result in split fruits. Harvested hot-dry then plunged in cold water will cause splits.

Benefits from a couple more days on the counter to fully cure. Thin edible skin. Juicy with sweet umami front end, rising rich umami middle, and lingering tang.

Deceptively long keeper but will start to lose sugars and complex flavors after a week.

F6/F7 now, so seeds will be F7/F8. I’m trying to make sure that these metallic gold sheen and distinct flaming sky red-orange-yellow stripes consistently show up.

[applestar]

I knew something had happened to de-stabilize some of the MRxCF lines — Last year, there were several surprises.

This year, planted in VGB (Vegetable Gardenbed B) and having matured enough to start blushing and ripening fruits, I’m seeing unexpected fruit sizes, shapes and colors in the segregates that had seemed to have stabilized enough to be named with associated characteristics. Even the determinate/indeterminate growth patterns were not quite as expected and mixed among same names segregates.

I’m not sure if I should interpret this as new cross had been introduced the year before, and these are more or less F3’s of that new cross with added variables.

VGB’23 MRxCF segregates

… will report in more detail later …

[applestar]

OK these threw me for a loop!

I had tentatively decided to call a MRxCF segregate and a closely related sister segregate “Moona Mints” and “Kiki’s Sunny Spot”.

Last year, they looked like the larger of the small gumdrop shaped white (not the round one — I’ve been avoiding the round whites as being too close to the Coyote type), and one was pink and the other was white — pink was the surprise but the growth habits and fruit shape, even their flavors were very close.

This year, two plants of the “Moona Mints” so far, are producing fruits that look like the original from two generations ago, but Kiki’s Sunny Spot has drastically changed — large round fruits — AND ONE OF THEM HAS RIPENED INTO GREEN-when -ripe!

I was only growing 3 of each type, thinking these are mostly stabilized at F6/F7 … and then I lost one of Kiki’s Sunny Spot to a stem borer attack early on.

WHAT WERE THE COLOR GENETICS THAT WHEN COMBINED PRODUCE GRERN-WHEN-RIPE again?

Also, what is the official name of the color when epi is clear and flesh is green? Lime?

I almost missed them and let them get overripe because I wasn’t expecting GWR, although I did think those fruits were odd-colored.

One was slightly bruised and split in the rinse bucket so I tried tasting it, and it has thin edible skin like all of its sibs, and the sweet umami and lingering mouthwatering flavor that have been characterizing the keepers in this cross.

DD1 has offered “Kiki’s Afternoon Snack” as working name for this segregate. She want to continue calling the larger sized white round ones “Kiki’s Sunny Spot”. They both developed blushed blossom end when ripe.

I hope these can be stabilized down the line.

[applestar]

Among the S7xA.F3 grow out, the BS6 segregate with extra impressive variegated foliage and stems that grew taller than others but stayed more compact than the original Shimofuri(霜降り), and produced round (not flattened) circumference yellow “heart” shaped fruits seems to be the first one to ripen all at once in determinate way. There’s just one fruit left on the plant and the tired foliage is rapidly deteriorating from aggressive septoria. If the infection had been staved off, then it’s possible the new side shoot growths might have grown and the pkk look ant might have gone through another cycle?

The earliest harvested fruits started to spoil after about a week.

The weight of 5 cured fruits averaged 26.3g and 3 biggest averaged 27.2g.

Evaluating the fruits, I’m having a serious issue with an unfortunate characteristic it seemed to have inherited from Aztek along with the strong yellow color — a very thick, inedibly tough skin that leaves pieces almost like bits of plastic in my mouth.

It’s that classic “crunchy skin” that is often associated with cherry tomatoes. Some people have said they like this, but I don’t.

This type of skin is not easily peeled when raw, and is attached pretty firmly to subcutaneous layer of flesh that is also crunchy. (It occurs to me I should try plunging in boiling water to peel skin while I still have done fruits left)

I took the biggest fruits and tried peeling them. DD2 and I did a tasting, and we were pleasantly surprised to find the fruits with crunchy outer flesh (which stands out from others with thin edible skin), sweet front end, mouthwatering umami flavor with a touch of salty while chewing, and mild lingering tang after swallowing.

S7xA.F3 B❤️S6-ty

[applestar]

[…]
Here are my best surprise among my cross breeding projects this year. ‘Kiki’s Afternoon Snack’ and ‘Kiki’s Sunny Spot’ — a completely unexpected appearance and fantastic flavor profile. Not by any means guaranteed to be reproduceable, but I’m going to try.

— will discuss in detail in my Cross thread. Stay tuned.

A little more details about their growth habits, and fruit descriptions including flavor profiles —

‘Kiki’s Afternoon Snack’

Tall Indeterminate regular leaf.
Fruit trusses are sturdy and can be long and sweeping with potential for 9~11 fruits per truss.

Fruits are Quail-egg shaped and flattened, bluntly heart shaped, clear epi green when ripe, with pink blush that colors the sub-dermal interior flesh, averaging to 18.25g each when suckers are pruned and two-main stalks are maintained.

Thin skin, V Sweet, Umami, Rich, Creamy?
texture that is NOT mushy, very tasty

‘Kiki’s Sunny Spot’

Tall Indeterminate regular leaf.
Fruit trusses are sturdy in clusters of 5 fruits per truss.

Fruits are not quite round-shaped, clear epi butter-yellow, with pink blush that colors the sub-dermal interior flesh, averaging to 22g each when suckers are pruned and two-main stalks are maintained.

Thin skin, Citrusy Sweet, Salty, Umami, Spicy lingering tang.

[applestar]

These segregates are descended from the same original {Maglia Rosa x (Coyote+Faelan’s First Snow)} cross as ‘Kiki’s Sunny Spot’, ‘Kiki’s Afternoon Snack’, and the ‘Moona Mints’ siblings.

These seemed more stable at F6/F7 with generally recognized traits. I’m trying to differentiate them based on appearance and flavor profiles and give them their final names—

* ‘Molten Sky(紅蓮の空)’
SEMID MOLTEN SKY (紅蓮の空) = Well defined irregular streaks. Gold metallic sheen. Green streaks turn into gold metallic streaks. Large Boat-tail bullet shaped, Leaf-blade knife or teardrop/pointed teardrop shaped. (NOT sweet front end) TANGY-salty umami-lingering sharp tang.

* ‘Li’l Wild Rosa(お茶目なローザ)’
DET 3ft~4ft L’IL WILD ROSA (お茶目なローザ) = Amorphous swirls. Ripens to swirly dark pink. Variably sized. Leaf-blade knife or teardrop/pointed teardrop shaped. Thin skin. SWEET-Sweet UMAMI-Lingering tang.

However, there WAS a surprise fruit size and shape change here as well. (It has been suggested by someone who is more knowledgeable about tomato genetics that a sudden appearance of a recessive trait is not totally unexpected at this stage. Maybe a similar recessive combination happened in these segregates as well?) —

* ‘Wild Rosa(オテンバ娘)
IND WILD ROSA (オテンバ娘) = Matte, pink mini-oxheart with round equatorial cross section. Ripens dark pink. Thin skin. SWEET-Sweet/salty UMAMI-Lingering tang.

It’s interesting to note that the sweetness and flavor of ‘L’il Wild Rosa’ and ‘Wild Rosa’ are similar to ‘Kiki’s Afternoon Snack’.

Seeds from these will be at F7/F8.