What's wrong with these tomato seedlings?

[applestar]

This Sweet n Neat pink is exhibiting weirdness that I don't recognize. 2nd seedling (not shown) was doing the same thing so I tried cutting off the affected top growth.

Not as obvious but I think this Tatjana is doing the same thing....


...and I maybe seeing the same on two other seedlings.

[valley]

Hi applestar, Could it be very humid conditions and/or the soggy medium? The lower part or the plants look pretty good.

Richard

[applestar]

Thanks Richard. I don't think it could just be overwatering, they they were soggier than expected -- I think that's because the plants are not taking up water like they should because of these symptoms rather than the cause.

It's been suggested that they look like herbicide damage and I had the same inkling... Except they have been in the house or garage the whole time so no outside airborne contamination. This leaves the soil mix.

I'm thinking I'm seeing symptoms in all the ones repotted that day (I mark all my pots with date of potting). The potting mix used for these were Espoma organic potting mix, parboiled rice hulls, and some dolomitic lime. I've been using both potting mix and rice hulls in others, I think, though I trying to remember if I used a new bag of rice hulls in these because I couldn't find the already open bag. (This new one was marketed as a "growing medium" not for brewing like the last purchased rice hulls) Can excess dolomitic lime cause this? Maybe I forgot I already added some and grabbed another handful?

I've repotted the Sweet and Neat shaking off most of the new potting mix and replacing with pure Espoma potting mix, and Dwaef Arctic Rose that has slightly moderated symptoms with 1/2 existing mix and 1/2 Espoma to "dilute".

I reserved the soil from Sweet and Neat and want to grow seeds that would be readily affected by herbicide. I'm trying to remember if that was peas or beans. I remember reading about this in the aftermath of the UK "herbicide in the horse manure" disaster -- next year, some articles mentioned that a test sowing of the seeds and seedling growth will indicate whether the herbicide is still in the soil. Any one remember/know?

[applestar]

https://compostingcouncil.org/admin/wp-c ... ryover.pdf

But some of these herbicides can be persistent and may remain active in the hay, straw, grass clippings, and manure, even after they are composted. Some of these herbicides have a half life of 300 days or more and aminopyralid has been reported to remain active in compost for several years. A problem sometimes arises when these materials, particularly manure and compost, are applied to fields and gardens to raise certain vegetables and flowers. The herbicides of greatest concern are picloram, clopyralid, and aminopyralid. The garden plants that are most sensitive to this class of herbicides are tomatoes, potatoes, lettuce, spinach, carrots, peas, beans, dahlias, and some roses.

[rainbowgardener]

Now that you mention it, that does kind of look like herbicide damage.

Did you get the rice hulls idea from me or were you already doing that? Mine do come from a brewing supplies company. Do yours sprout little rice plants? How do you like working with the rice hulls in your soil?

[applestar]

The rice hulls was your idea, rainbowgardener.
And yep some of the ones from the brewing supply sprouted. The parboiled ones shouldn't though. I think they work well and the plants seem happy. I think rice hulls is definitely going to be my choice for growing seedlings and starts.

Only problem is that they do break down. I'm having to reconsider my options for year round container plants, especially ones that don't get repotted every season. I just bought a big bag of chunky DE to try. I really liked pumice gravel. But still may have to consider perlite after all as the weight is a BIG problem with the extra big containers. I also have to go back and find those mini chip bark mulch. For some reason I haven't seen them anywhere.

On the other hand, I uppotted the coffee and one of the big avocados in rice hull only potting mixture and they keep falling down when there's a bit of wind. First time the soil was starting to dry, but second time was in a rainstorm AFTER the soil had been soaked. So now I may have to go back and somehow add weightier material.
....

There was a report found at another forum that aspirin water can strengthen plants immune system, with a cited UK research article. The tomato grower said he was spraying his plants just before late blight season and his plants didn't get late blight. Discussion ensued and was decided that the appropriate substance could come from willow bark.

I had just recently dried some willow bark shavings and growing tip twigs/leaves to save (growing tip contains substance that encourage root growth or natural "rooting hormone")

So I made a decoction/tea steeped for about 8 hrs and sprayed and watered the affected seedlings in case that would help. I also up/repotted some more.

[rainbowgardener]

Cool! I've gotten so many ideas from you, applestar, it is fun to see one go the other way!

Yes, the rice hulls are a very light weight material. And they do break down. Which is fine for my seed starting operation, because before they are breaking down, the plants are going in the ground, but probably not as good for permanent containers. I thought it was kind of fun that some of mine sprouted. I did plant a few as rice plants and even harvested something like 1/4 cup of rice!

It sounds like you must be buying them in bulk. Where did you find a reasonably priced source for lots of them?

[applestar]

Not sure they were reasonably priced -- first batch I bought from Pinetree Gardens, the second one was just best priced one from Amazon. But often Amazon price is more than the website of the company... But Amazon might offer better shipping, etc.

...I had another idea...
In the last week, our kitties have caught 4 mice in the garage. This is the time of year when mice start moving in from the cold, so our indoor kitties are sent out to patrol the garage with the doors closed. Initially it ws primarily so they would leave their scent, but over the years, they've learned to catch the mice.

So my crazy idea is that the mice could have been in herbicide treated area, then ran scurried among my seedlings. They would have eaten tiny seedlings especially if crucifers.

[imafan26]

Could it just be cooking from being too close to the window of your tent? It kinda looks like my plants when they have been too near a sunny window in summer.

[applestar]

The plants are inside and it's getting cooler here so not heat I think?

...I'm going to mention now... One of the kitties was staggering four days ago, just for one day. At first I thought she fell... Head injury ...spine... back legs.... She didn't have good control of her hindquarters, and would wobble occasionally, couldn't jump up to her usual perch. But she didn't have any injuries when I examined her thoroughly. I concluded maybe ear mites because she did have yellow mucus in her ears though not black.

After the herbicide contaminated mice idea came to me, I looked it up and DOGS would exhibit weak hindquarters from exposure to 2,4-D...?

-- I didn't want to say before because I wasn't sure of the outcome, but she was better next day, and killed and ATE a baby mouse day before yesterday (in front of the kids in two bites, they said... In the kitchen <she brought it inside > We thought this was her first time eating a mouse, but maybe not?

She seems OK now though, so if herbicide, the baby mouse wasn't contaminated. ...and prognosis for cats after 2,4-D contact/ingestion is better than for dogs especially after 72 hrs according to one vet website.

I'm still going to do the contamination test on the soil mix, though I haven't got around to it yet.