2014-15 Winter Indoor Tomatoes... + sugar snaps and cucumber

[applestar]

So it's already August 8th and I'm a week behind in starting them, but I'm going to drop the seeds for my winter indoor tomatoes today. From last years revised schedule, I know beginning of August worked out better for getting ripe fruits before the end of the year than beginning of September as in the year before.

Basic criteria for My winter Indoor growing are -- perform well in under 3 gallon containers, early, cool setting, productive, low light tolerant *and* 30" tall or under varieties that taste good to excellent despite these adverse conditions.

I already have Whippersnapper (hanging basket) and Dwarf Arctic Rose that I started on a whim from this year's candidates list. New Big Dwarf has been attacked by russet mites and prone to disease, but if the plant I have now recovers and is still in good condition by frost, I'll bring it in. I believe it will mean this plant will have immunity or even predatorial protection from russet mites for the others to share.

The rest of the candidates that I will start now so I will have them to choose from later are --

Previous years winners --
Sweet n Neat Pink (not the Red F1 or Yellow F1. My seeds were from wintersown)
Kootenai (grew productively even in 1-2 gal)

Manö
(I liked Manö better than Kootenai for flavor in the summer growout last year, but had seedling failure for last winter)

Sophie's Choice had auspicious start first year but didn't do well last winter. I do like the larger fruit size though.

Yellow Dwarf (Tiny 10-12" plant good in small containers and good flavor reviews from other growers during the summer -- mine was nearly killed by russet mites but is recovering and blooming now so I'll get to taste them a little later)

Coyote -- Coyote is normally a HUGE rambling indeterminate mini cherry. I tried growing this in a 3 gal container this summer, and it grew well until it became root bound, only growing to about 3 feet. Now it's going down fast. But It did produce extra early. So I might try this in a tub on the floor.

Maglia Rosa -- intriguing shape. trying to decide on flavor. I think this needs good light due to wispy foliage -- not as productive as reported in current less sun location.
Lime Green Salad -- good flavor reviews
Orange Pixie -- said to be small and loaded

I'm not sure if I want to grow more golfball-racketball sized red spheres but I *may* consider --
42 days -- being considered after the summer's excellent performance... (But I would rather grow a pink or purple instead. I need to think about this one.)
Extreme Bush Dwarf -- amazing productivity last summer. Flavor did not seem as good as Manö or Kootenai.
.
.
.
Utyonok -- I was going to try this again, but since it doesn't grow with dwarf-type internodes and it's known to grow a bit taller than I want, I think I'll leave it out of this winter list (it will be back for next summer's main list )

So, if you are planning to grow Winter Indoor Tomatoes this year, I recommend you get your variety selections ready and start them. Post your lists and let's discuss.
-- you would have more variety options if you have more head room and growing space for 5 gallon buckets. I may or may not be able to manage one or two 5 gallon containers, but my available space is limited which narrows the varieties that could be grown.

[Juliuskitty]

Tatjana would fit the criteria nicely. It is a dwarf to about 2&1/2 feet, reg rugose foliage red 4 oz fruit in abundance with old fashioned not sweet taste.

[applestar]

Ooh Tatjana! Yes! I'll add it to my starting line up! Thank you.

[Juliuskitty]

You are welcome!

[Lindsaylew82]

Have you had and success with micros that grow in 8" pots or less?

I have 2 brand new, extra wide sills that I built in our bonus room JUST for potted plants. But I literally have 8"x36". 3 gallon pot is a no go. Floor placement is a no go. Hanging basket.......maybe go.

I saw an advertisement for the micro tom hybrid. I don't know anything else about it, other than it's really tiny.

[applestar]

Yellow Dwarf could be a micro. My Yellow Dwarf, Hahms Gelbe Topftomate, and Tiny Tim are recovering from the russet mites and covered in blossoms (and probably green fruits, too -- haven't looked in the last three days) right now. (I'm afraid Tatjana didn't make it under the onslaught or I would have remembered about it) I should take some new pictures but they looked like this a couple of weeks ago:

Yellow Dwarf is starting to bloom here

They obviously don't need these 3 gallon pots.

You should be able to grow Kootenai in 8" pots. Probably Sweet n Neat, too.

[applestar]

The micro dwarfs are getting septoria.
Hahms Gelbe Topftomate is going down. But the others seem to be doing OK so far....

New Big Dwarf is dealing with early blight but is staying ahead of it as of now.

I'm thinking maybe I should add Tiny Tim to the candidates because this variety seems to be fighting off the fungal issues, but for the time being, I've started these 2014-15 Winter Indoor Tomato Candidates

(2" mini soilblocks)
1 Dwarf Arctic Rose (2)
2 Coyote (2)
3 Maglia Rosa (2)
4 Manö (2)
5 Orange Pixie (2)
6 Sweet n Neat (Pink) (2)
7 Tatjana (2)
8 Yellow Dwarf (2)

(1 pt. Berry container)
+Whippersnapper (4)

Depending on the size of the containers I have room for 8-12 plants in ideal lighting locations. Other locations are not as suitable and have not produced satisfactory results. It's a tricky situation since I can't easily give them away. Only intentional "gift" variety I'm going to try growing this year will be Whippersnapper in hanging baskets.

The seedlings I started earlier are struggling. I forgot that starting them outside at this time of the year is actually not a good idea since the fungal issues are rampant right now. I'm not counting on any of those, and have started these new ones under lights indoors. Hopefully those russet mites I had indoors in spring are gone.

[Lindsaylew82]

Do you think they came from soil, or one of your plants you brought in the house for the winter?

Are they tomato specific?

[applestar]

I would guess that they came inside with plants. I suspect they originally came to the garden a couple of years ago when we had abnormally warm winter and hot summer with unusual for this northern climate pests. They could have hitched a ride with one of the migrating pests or even birds. Outside there are Garden Patrol that can control their numbers and our normal winter lows may be too cold, but indoors they got out of control which allowed them to survive the winter.

Hopefully I will be able to bring in the russet mite predators with the plants this winter.

They can infest other solanacea though I don't think the hot peppers were affected. They DID significantly weaken the eggplant I was experimenting with, and also got to some of the petunia seedlings.

[applestar]

(2" mini soilblocks)
1 Dwarf Arctic Rose (2)
2 Coyote (2)
3 Maglia Rosa (2)
4 Manö (2)
5 Orange Pixie (2)
6 Sweet n Neat Pink (2)
7 Tatjana (2)
8 Yellow Dwarf (2)

(1 pt. Berry container)
+Whippersnapper (4)

At least one of all 9 varieties except Yellow Dwarf is up and some are already starting to grow true leaves. I re-seeded the two Yellow Dwarf, two Whippersnapper, one Tatjana and one Orange Pixie yesterday.

I don't think I'll start Tiny Tim after all because some of the indeterminate dwarfs from the summer growout are starting to come back from the russet mite induced near-death, and I may end up wanting to bring them inside. New Big Dwarf seems to be doing well. I think most or all of the micros are determinate -- the ones that have recovered are starting to fruit so they probably won't live to be brought inside.

[applestar]

These photos clearly illustrate why the dwarf/micro varieties are more suited for growing in height challenged winter indoor garden

Coyote, Maglia Rosa, and Whippersnapper had to be moved out

[gixxerific]

Seeds dropped, more to come. You will just have to wait to see.

[applestar]

Here are my babies now:

Orange Pixie in the back, reseeded Orange Pixie
and Yellow Dwarf in the two miniblocks, Tatjana and
Sweet n Neat Pink, Manö and Dwarf Arctic Rose

Coyote, Maglia Rosa, and Whippersnapper

...and I realized there is a different growing technique involved with growing the Winter Indoor Tomatoes as compared to the late winter/early spring seedlings for the main season, which are grown slowly in cool to almost too cold conditions with aid of heating equipment, but the slower development is preferred so they don't get too big before they can be set out on warmer days for hardening off (they need to still fit under the lights while there are frosty days and nights). Most of these are intended to be ultimately planted in the ground so a certain amount of elongated internodes due to inadequate lights are not an issue. Once the frost-free weather arrives, they are planted as they get overgrown and begin to become rootbound in their small containers (usually 12-20 oz by then).

I remember filing this for further consideration last year, and now, with these seedlings growing, I'm running into the same question.

Any container tomato growers, and I think also Florida and southern growers who need to get their seedlings growing fast to beat the heat before they get shut down. My question is this:

For Winter Indoor growing, I also want them to develop and mature quickly so they bloom and set fruits before the winter arrives and the cold and the short days shut them down. Height limitation is a premier concern, so I need them to be stocky and dwarf internodes supply the necessary characteristic. I can't rely on cold temp growth suppression so I keep them very close to the lights. (I found out last year that this time of the year through fall, the fungal disease pressure is too great if I put them outside and allow them to get stressed.)

I decided not to stress/setback the seedlings like I do for the main season, and started with sowing in 2" miniblocks, and have uppotted as soon as the roots outgrew the sides of the blocks.

So, Whippersnapper -- they look like this now and were just uppotted to this 1/2 gal rice milk box. At what point should I plant them in their final individual baskets? Is it better to plant them in their final containers early and avoid them getting rootbound?

[Juliuskitty]

I would do it sooner than later as long as they look to be strong. Some that are more knowledgeable than I say that they adapt to their new surroundings and grow better stronger root systems when smaller, they don't like to let the plants get too tall before transplanting. Darrel Jones is a big advocate of smaller transplants.

[meshmouse]

I've enjoyed reading this thread and am thinking of giving it a try.

My question is - if I can get them outside on a sunny day in winter, what is the minimum temperature that could be considered safe for a tomato plant? I'm sure different types have different requirements, but is there a safe minimum temp? Or is it not a good idea to increase their sun at cost of cooler air?

Thanks.