hornworm pictorial

[JayPoc]

So, I found my first hornworm today...walking out to the car I saw some tell-tale damage. looks like somebody plucked off all the leaves (pics should enlarge on a click):



you can also see the castings in the pic above, or check out the pic below. Truthfully, I usually spot the poop before the damage:



I couldn't find the offender, but I sent my 9 year old out to find him. He has amazing focus and an eye for finding these suckers. I looked for 20 minutes, he found it in about 2:



fortunately, I haven't seen anywhere near my normal load of these pests. My hypothesis is that this brutal winter wiped a lot of them out. I've also noticed a huge decrease in stink bug nymphs, which also plagued me last year...

[rainbowgardener]

I agree that I have not (so far!) seen stinkbugs in my garden this year. We did have a number of them in our house in the late winter and early spring, but they got disposed of. Last year stinkbugs were one of the worst bug pests in my garden. So maybe the winter did reduce their numbers some. In general, this is not being a bad year for bugs. Something good came of going through all that!

[applestar]

Wow I was going to say, "those are some big poop!"
Big poop = Big caterpillar

Little caterpillar would have left smaller poop and

Tiny caterpillar might have left what would look like ground black peppers

[mattie g]

Yeah...that must have been a huge hornworm.

I've seen two hornworms - both pretty small. One looked healthy and had eaten a ton in about a day, while the second had already been parasitized when I found it. I think the flowering dill may have helped with that one! I haven't noticed any new ones since then, which was nearly three weeks ago.

I've also seen a massive reduction in stinkbugs, which decimated my peaches last year. I've probably seen five all season. Then again, a late cold shot zapped my peach buds this year, so there's not much in the tree to bring them in!

[valley]

I found 6 giant hornworm on the same potato plant, gave them to the chickens. The hen acted cautious with them.

Richard

[grwrn]

I have only found one hornworm and he was on my pepper plant. I have seen the castings (glad you posted pics to confirm my suspicion) on my tomato leafs but no worms. I have only seen one damaged tomato and felt it was a hornworm and I looked and looked but never found it. My raised bed garden is near my chain link fence and birds like to sit there so I am hoping they having been plucking them from my plants.

[JayPoc]

I have only found one hornworm and he was on my pepper plant. I have seen the castings (glad you posted pics to confirm my suspicion) on my tomato leafs but no worms. I have only seen one damaged tomato and felt it was a hornworm and I looked and looked but never found it. My raised bed garden is near my chain link fence and birds like to sit there so I am hoping they having been plucking them from my plants.

FWIW, in my experience it seems they like the foliage more than the fruit. Even during times where there have been a lot of the caterpillars around here, I rarely see damage to any fruit...

[valley]

When I was maybe ten years old, I took and extension cord with wire extending form the female end both power and ground. I touched these to the hornworms. They twisted and complained but it didn't kill them.

[rainbowgardener]

Hornworms often do eat some of the fruit. Hornworm damage on the tomato looks something like this:




https://www.bluemelon.com/photo/2773/176017.jpg

You can often tell what has been eating your tomatoes by what the damage looks like. Cutworm damage;


https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-qAlV_ATASEo/U ... damage.jpg

stinkbug damage:


https://extension.umd.edu/sites/default/ ... 38x271.jpg

this will eventually turn in to hard scars:


https://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/vege ... y_spot.jpg
(with a picture of the culprit)


tomato fruitworm:


https://www.missouribotanicalgarden.org/ ... rm1241.jpg

[Lindsaylew82]

Hornworms make larger poops than you think they are capable. Those casting look consistent with the smaller 1" caterpillars. The HUGE ones I have been finding have HUGE castings! I'm talking like nearly a centimeter!!! I guess that explains how they can do that much damage! Everything that goes in, DEFINITELY comes out! I've had quite the hornworm problem this year... But karma is coming back around! I'm finding them parasitized very frequently. Birds have found my "nursery plant". They keep snatching the new members! Although I was very CLOSE to bombing them with BT, I'm glad I didn't. I felt like I was losing control, but I think I really just needed to take a step back and let my controls do what they're meant to do.

Applestar suggested Blacklight to find them. I tried a cheap bulb, and it didn't work, but I borrowed a black light/UV flashlight from my mom, and it WORKED! Found some that I missed earlier!

[JayPoc]

Yeah...this one was by no means a monster...maybe about the size of my pinkie finger. I found one bigger one and two about the same size this evening. A couple years ago I got two whoppers...over 3 inches long each!

[Lindsaylew82]

They are ACTUALLY starting to slow down. I've gone from finding 5-6 OR MORE every single evening, to none for the past 3 days. I need to get the UV/black light flashlight back out and check the plants at night. Much easier to see them that way... I found some new damage last night, but no worm.

[valley]

No need to show pictures, you know what hornworms look like, I found 8 today on tomatoes and potatoes. The chickens like them.
I saw one great hornworm from across three rows of veggies, but when I got there I had to sit down and put my glasses and search, great camouflage.

Richard

[digitS']

I credit sunflowers and the possessive nature birds have towards them with the absence of horn worms in my tomato patch. This is going on 10 years .

The chickadees may be the best with this job but there are gold and other finches in the garden often. There are still no mature seed on the sunflowers.

Most birds take insects to their nestlings. The seed is for the adults. I've never set a feeder out there, just the sunflowers.

Steve

[Lindsaylew82]

Just saw my very first goldfinch this morning! And he was on the sunflowers!

My sunflowers are just now setting seed though. I've been having hornworm problems for months!

[digitS']

We have resident Song Sparrows (Melospiza melodia) and the Gold Finch may be nesting there this year .

The plants are visited by Chipping Sparrows and the House Finches will show up in good number when there is seed.

As I say tho', I think it is mostly the Chickadees. Although, the Song Sparrow spends lots of time down on the ground, searching through the garden. We have both the Black-cap and the Mountain Chickadee here .

Steve

[rainbowgardener]

Just saw my very first goldfinch this morning! And he was on the sunflowers!

My sunflowers are just now setting seed though. I've been having hornworm problems for months!

If you do have bird feeders, then you will have birds year around. And digitS is right, even the seed eaters feed insects to their babies.

[Lindsaylew82]

I'm not doubting anyone... Or trying to prove anyone wrong. I'm just not having the same experience.

I have feeders. I have water, I have perches. I recently added another feeder, and the house wrens (or they may be finches) are very territorial..... Still there are lots of birds here! There are also lots of caterpillars.

[digitS']

I don't know how to account for the lack of horn worms otherwise. The last ones (I almost) saw was in 2005. I had begun to grow lots of tomatoes by then and had a few sunflowers.

Some of each of these were very close together. One day I noticed those telltale signs on some tomatoes close to a group of sunflowers. "Uh oh, I'd better bring the Bt out here!"

A couple days had passed and I'd forgotten about the Bt spray. I'm over looking at those tomatoes and they are healing! No new damage! Then, I notice the continual bird activity in those sunflowers only about 6' away.

Not all birds are likely to be interested. I'd like to blame the House Finches because I have a soft spot for them but I'm not sure. They are one of the few Passerine birds that feed seeds to their young. I don't know how many bugs they eat.

I have trouble imagining that the House Sparrows (Passer domesticus) are good for much of anything, but there aren't many in that country garden usually. The Chipping Sparrows arrive in small flocks whereas some of the others are only in pairs.

I hardly know what is going on with the Chickadees. They are in and out, in and out, like demons!

About 60 tomato plants each year should make a pretty good horn worm (sphinx moth) target. ... There are quite a few more sunflowers ... lots of sunflowers .

Steve

[applestar]

So I didn't tell my male Cardinal story here?

From my garden watching windows, I've seen the male cardinal actually stalking and pouncing on hornworms -- twice I could clearly see the green limp form against his scarlet plumage AFTER he dashed it to the ground and pecked it to death.

Since then, I've watched the male cardinal hopping through the tomatoes as well as the rest of the garden many times. Just a little while ago, a male cardinal with a juvenile in tow was hopping through my container tomatoes -- by this I mean he was hopping from container to container, looking up and around in each tomato foliage.

[Lindsaylew82]

In previous years, I've seen 1, maybe 2 hornworms. I've been in and around gardens since my toddler years. This year...at least 100!!! Maybe more! It's been a constant battle. So, this isn't a regular occurrence (thank goodness).

I'm interested in what could cause an increase so profound!
Do y'all think that their natural predators suffered great losses in the severity of last winter?

[valley]

You know, never had hornworms at the mountain ranch. I thought it would be nice to see one. Down here there are so many.

Richard

[mattie g]

In previous years, I've seen 1, maybe 2 hornworms. I've been in and around gardens since my toddler years. This year...at least 100!!! Maybe more! It's been a constant battle. So, this isn't a regular occurrence (thank goodness).

I'm interested in what could cause an increase so profound!
Do y'all think that their natural predators suffered great losses in the severity of last winter?

I doubt that's the issue. Birds love big, fat caterpillars, and the winter had very little (if any) effect on the birds here this summer. And one of the two hornworms I've seen this year was already parasitized, so the Braconids are obviously around.

Maybe the hawk moths simply thought your area was a good egg-laying location, so you reaped the "benefits" of that. You never know...

[Lindsaylew82]

Refilled the bird feeders tonight. The cedar bird feeder had a whole newly laid cluster of armyworm eggs. RIGHT ON THE FEEDER!

No kidding! I hope they hatch and the birds tear them to pieces.

[DDMcKenna]

Refilled the bird feeders tonight. The cedar bird feeder had a whole newly laid cluster of armyworm eggs. RIGHT ON THE FEEDER!

No kidding! I hope they hatch and the birds tear them to pieces.

Do you have squirrels that attack your bird feeders?

[Lindsaylew82]

Not yet..... I don't think they've figured it out. There are 4 pecan trees as well as two large oaks, and 20 or more sunflower seed heads that they are currently enamored with right now.

It's been raining pretty much non-stop the last few days, so maybe that overhang was the only dry thing she had to lay them on...idk. I thought about scraping them off, but I figured the birds would probably really enjoy that treat!

[imafan26]

I am glad I do not have many caterpillars in my garden. I have seen horn worms in the herb garden on the sweet potatoes but not in my home garden. I saw some cabbage butterflies a couple of times this year, but they have not stuck around either.

I do have a lot of wild birds that frequent my yard and resident geckos so maybe they are taking care of them. I certainly have some very fat geckos around so they must be getting enough to eat.

[Lindsaylew82]

I haven't seen a tomato horn worm in a week!

I DID pull a cucumber with 7 pickle worms in it today...

[valley]

I was wondering why there is a deluge of Hornworms here at the desert ranch. That Charcoal colored moth that was into and onto everything earlier this year: That was the devil that is at the other end of the live cycle of this monster.

I've been trying to post a picture, MAYBE YOU CAN, of the moth.

Every day Hornworms are carried from the garden to the chickens. I've never had to deal with this creature.

I'm going to spray with a soap solution, if you've a better answer please speak now.


Well, now for the High Desert Weather Report: Rain lots of it!

Richard

[DDMcKenna]

Not yet..... I don't think they've figured it out...

We gave up on birdfeeders a couple hours after we first tried it. It didn't take them long and my wife found them very entertaining. They would do these jumps and summersaults, all kinds of amazing feats that I have to admit can consume a bit of time if you start watching them. But they could clean out a birdfeeder in minutes. At first, it was horrifying, and then we just accepted that is the way things are down here. We try to blend in and not make a point of being different. No matter how many ways you try to figure out how they can't get to it...

My wife actually set up a birdfeeder pole at work filled with squirrel food. She and her coworkers spent hours watching the antics of their residents. It wasn't until the company started freaking out because they were getting overrun by these rodents that they made my wife take her birdfeeder down.

[rainbowgardener]

McKenna: Back here https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/vi ... 22#p339122 I posted some info and a picture for you of squirrel proof birdfeeders. They really do work and you really can have bird feeders without the squirrels cleaning them out.

[JayPoc]

Well, after growing tomatoes for the last 8 or 9 years (not to mention a bunch of years as a kid in the garden with dad), I've finally seen this in person:



Sorry for the blurry pic...the twilight made photography tricky. I've actually found 2 like this in the last two evenings. Look at all those eggs!

[Lindsaylew82]

Yeeeeeees! Look at all the little baby waspies!

[JayPoc]

Yeeeeeees! Look at all the little baby waspies!

The other side of the caterpillar was covered in the same fashion. There must be well over a hundred eggs there. The caterpillar was in the exact same place this morning...hadn't moved an inch or eaten anything else....

[applestar]

Pupae not eggs, but yeah -- LOTS of next generation Garden Patrol.

Within the next week you see see the tops of those opening like little lids and winged adults emerging.

...if you want to, you could cut off the entire leaf (the caterpillar is not likely to eat much or move, if at all) and stick the leaf stem in one of those little water vials that fancier roses come in, put it in a large jar or aquarium with a paper towel or cloth rubber banded/tied on or even clear plastic wrap poked with bunch of holes for air. Then watch for the little wasps to emerge.

But they don't all come out at once, so as soon as you had the chance to see first few come out, you should put the caterpillar leaf or the entire container back outside with the top open. You can put it where you WANT THE WASPS TO START HUNTING, though there needs to be nectar rich flowers for them to feed from as well or they will not stay in the particular area.

[JayPoc]

Pupae not eggs, but yeah -- LOTS of next generation Garden Patrol.

Within the next week you see see the tops of those opening like little lids and winged adults emerging.

...if you want to, you could cut off the entire leaf (the caterpillar is not likely to eat much or move, if at all) and stick the leaf stem in one of those little water vials that fancier roses come in, put it in a large jar or aquarium with a paper towel or cloth rubber banded/tied on or even clear plastic wrap poked with bunch of holes for air. Then watch for the little wasps to emerge.

But they don't all come out at once, so as soon as you had the chance to see first few come out, you should put the caterpillar leaf or the entire container back outside with the top open. You can put it where you WANT THE WASPS TO START HUNTING, though there needs to be nectar rich flowers for them to feed from as well or they will not stay in the particular area.

hmm...maybe if he's still there this evening when I get home I'll put him in a jar...would be neat for the kiddos to watch...

[Lindsaylew82]

I haven't seen any hornworms since the one being attacked by the tachinid fly. We are having cool temps though. And the new bird feeder is helping also.

What a *struggle* I had with them earlier in the summer...

[rainbowgardener]

It may just be getting late in the season for them. Probably they have all turned in to sphinx moths by now.

[applestar]

...or they are snuggled under the mulch looking like this:

[Lindsaylew82]

I've been rummaging around. I found 1 much earlier. I'm hoping I was just very thorough and got them all!

Optimism!!!