Organic booster for heirloom tomatoes?

[HeirloomToms]

Hi there,

I'm growing some heirloom tomatoes in containers with soil as the medium, and a granular feed with an NPK ratio 12-12-12 with iron.

Can anyone please recommend a good organic booster to increase the phosphorus and potassium levels now that the fruit is starting to form?

I've grown in hydroponics before and used a PK booster to great effect, but not grown organics before and would like to try something.

My location is Italy btw


Many thanks and all the best

[MaggieMD]

I've been using Fish Emulsion, which has a higher P ratio than N or K. The tomatoes seem to really like it since I've been applying it. I disolve it in water and put it on the roots, then I mix a foliar spray and put that on too.
Lucky you, in Italy!

[tomstrees]

For me I grow only organic so a good fall "tilling" is in order for a good crop of tomatoes. I also do not rotate my crops and tomatoes are heavy feeders so the soil has to be ammended well.

Every fall, I dump my entire compost bin into my garden, finished compost or not. Then come spring I mulch with straw, grass clippings, and fresh seaweed from my beach.

I don't know if you are close to a beach, but I've found collected
seaweed to be an excellent source of nutrients for tomatoes.
I have washed it, and I haven't wash it. Its up to you.
But I mulch with it, and let ferment in a few 3-5gallon buckets for 2 weeks for a great "liqui-seaweed" watering 2 times a month !

The plants really take off within a couple days.
Make sure your mulch does not touch the stems of plants, is my only other suggestion.

Hope all is well,

~ Tom

Collected seaweed ready for mulch and brew:

[img]https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e94/tomstrees/Tomatoes%202007/Start2007Cont-123.jpg[/img]

Healthy Dwarf Plants in pots:
[img]https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e94/tomstrees/Bashful%20Project%202007/Start2007Cont-72.jpg[/img]

My garden from a few weeks ago:
[img]https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e94/tomstrees/Start2007Cont-31.jpg[/img]

[HeirloomToms]

Hi and thanks for the helpful replies and great pics tom

Maggie - that's a great suggestion, many thanks & I'm sure where you are is nice too.

Tom - thanks for the good info and very interesting pics - I'm not near a beach and don't have a compost heap, or even garden at the moment - I'm growing in pots on the balcony.

Everything was going very well until a few days ago when we had some very strong winds here and one of the plant's main stems got broken. I tried to cut the damage off, cut 2 x 45 degree angled clean cuts on the stem and tie it back together, but it hasn't repaired properly - a few very small green fruit are still ok, but the leaves are shrivelling & dying. I took a clone of one of the dying tops, which is doing ok nearby (out of direct sunlight, which it did get caught in for a couple of hours yesterday and drooped a bit, but has recovered ok now), and also there are some lower side branches on the broken plant which have survived, and the plant is now focusing its energy on growing these side branches.

The other plants survived the winds and are thriving - I fed them more 12-12-12 granular feed this morning, and will start adding some fish emulsion very soon.

They are indeterminate heirlooms and therefore flower longer, so I don't expect to be harvesting them anytime soon (late season for sure), although one plant did produce one small ripe fruit last week, which I can honestly say was the tastiest tomato I've ever had - not just because it's homegrown, but because it's an heirloom variety too (not sure which at the moment - will have to check my notes, especially since when I got them as clones at a local garden fayre here in Italy, they removed all the name tags! - things should start to become clear when the fruit continues to form though!)


Another reason why the smallest plant produced a ripe fruit already may be because it has had a dose of the dreaded spidermite, and the plant is trying to produce prematurely because of this. I've made up a homemade wax pepper spray, and have been spraying under the leaves regularly to keep them at bay, but spidermites, especially in Europe where they are more resilient to moisture, are a real problem!

Surprisingly, they haven't spread to the other plants, which is very odd considering!


Thanks again for the great info - much appreciated.

Best regards and happy growing

[tomstrees]

Great ! No problem ~

Sounds like you have everything under control.
The broken branch may never repair itself. Its a guessing game at this point.
Good to hear you took cuttings and are starting new plants.

With pots, proper staking, watering and feeding is a must.
I've found this out the hard way, lol. Last season was just "ok"
for my pot projects, but this season everything is much better.
Watering, feeding, and muching are a must ! lol ~

It has been a heat wave over the past week with relief of
rain finally last night.

The only "early Heirloom" I'm growing is "Bloody Butcher"
which is a potato leaf, semi-det., round red. It was a 55 day tomato !

What varieties are you growing ?

~ Tom (in New Jersey, USA)

[HeirloomToms]

Hi Tom,

You're right about the correct watering in pots - I've been watering twice a day, as well as misting them.

All the best with your plants, and I've just seen your pics of your Bloody Butcher sandwich in your recent thread - very nice


I've tried to get some fish emulsion locally, but am struggling - will keep trying and hopefully get some soon.

The plants are a 'mixed bag' at the moment, some doing well and some not so well, but overall okay.

I'm not sure about the names of all of them, as the seller didn't label them, and I only caught the names of two of them, as the conversation was in Italian at my Italian was even worse back then! The names I do know are Yellow Pear and White Wonder. Another variety he mentioned, he said it was the 'sweetest tomato plant'. I've looked through some heirloom variety names, and can't find any others I recognise, so maybe they're local Italian strains.

I've taken some pics to show what's going on with them, as well as a pic of how they were about a week after getting them earlier this year (which was at the end of April).

[img]https://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb92/heirloomtoms/plants1.jpg[/img]
The plants as they were at the start of May this year


And here they are now, as of today - 18th July 2007:

[img]https://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb92/heirloomtoms/tomatoes18july07.jpg[/img]



The problem plants are:

- the spidermite infested one, which a lot of the sap has been sucked from the leaves. It's still producing fruit, and the fruit is extremely tasty - very sweet and rich in flavour, but I can't help thinking it's suffering quite a lot what with all the damage the mites have done.

[img]https://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb92/heirloomtoms/spidermite-damaged-plant.jpg[/img]
Leaves sucked almost dry by red spidermite


- the plant with long pointed fruit which look like peppers has recently developed brown/black tips. Please see the pics, and if possible advise what I can do about this. Of the 3 fruit currently on the plant, two show this symptom and one doesn't (as yet?!).

[img]https://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb92/heirloomtoms/problem-fruit1.jpg[/img]
Brown dried tip - what could be the problem?


[img]https://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb92/heirloomtoms/problem-fruit2.jpg[/img]
Another problem fruit - brown/black tip, which will no doubt turn dried and brown shortly - is this maybe a form of mold/disease?


[img]https://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb92/heirloomtoms/ok-fruit1.jpg[/img]
One fruit okay for now, but for how long?


The plant which broke, which may or may not be Yellow Pear, has not repaired itself with regards to the main stem, but the fruit are still looking ok, despite the branches and leaves dying. I don't think they'll mature successfully however, as there is no real means to get water and nutrients to them via the branches. However, as plants do, it's focused its energy of developing the in-tact lower side branches and with a few flowering tips around, I'm hoping all is not lost and I'll get some good fruit from it yet.

[img]https://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb92/heirloomtoms/Damaged-tomato-plant.jpg[/img]
Main stem broke in very strong winds, but side branches are growing fast


The cutting, which I've also pictured is doing ok too.

[img]https://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb92/heirloomtoms/tomato-cutting.jpg[/img]
Single cutting to be used for the next generation, as well as seeds from the fruit of the others of course - hopefully all will be ok with this cutting since it was taken in early flower and not vegetative stage


The White Wonder, which I think I have 2 plants of, judging by the looks of the fruit (although I may be wrong about them both being WW!), are doing well. Here's a macro pic of one of the developing fruit:

[img]https://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb92/heirloomtoms/White-Wonder.jpg[/img]
White Wonder (?! - probably!)



Many thanks and best regards

[tomstrees]

Next season, you def. need to get bigger pots.
I'd go with either 3-5 Gallon pots. Also, I would buy a
commercial potting mix, and use an organic fertilizer
once every 2 weeks, and always water in the morning,
and every other day.

Your plant with the brown tip, looks like it has blossom
end rot. Nothing you can do about it now. You may
want to pluck that one off as it may just rot off the vine and
would be a waste of space for the plant.

Spider mites can be "shot" off plants
with a spray bottle and soapy water.

In your second pic (out of whole thread),
I'm really interested in
which variety that is the one
on the bottom of
pic ... Do you know which one that is ?

~ Tom

[HeirloomToms]

Hi Tom,

I hear you on the bigger pots advice - I'm aware they need bigger pots, but thanks for the heads up anyhow. Funds are very tight right now, so I had to compromise with 2 gal. pots. As they're long flowerers, it may well be a good idea to transplant the largest into larger pots, and I'm sure they'd appreciate the extra root space.

I've got the watering frequency down, but not got good enough fertiliser, of that I'm sure, but thanks again for the advice.

This really is a budget grow, and it's mainly for experimentation and interest purposes than a serious grow.

Thanks too for the 'blossom end rot' info - I've just looked it up at: https://www.gardenadvice.co.uk/howto/disease/rot-blossomend/index.html

and apparently it's due to a lack of calcium, of which liming can help, so that's certainly something to bear in mind if I manage to get any good fruit and therefore seeds from this particular variety. I'll cut off the damage as you suggest in order to hopefully cut short any further spread of it.

Regarding the spidermites, I've tried what you suggested. In fact I know a fair bit about spidermites and they're so resilient that usually only something like Abamectin, aka. Avid in the States, is an effective treatment, but Avid is not only banned in Europe, but also not something you really want to be using on plants which you intend to eat the fruit of, unless of course you use it very early in the vegetative stage.

It surprises me they've not spread to the other plants, really surprised me in fact - I thought I'd have a full infestation by now, but they seem to want to stay on that particular plant, which is fine by me!

When she fully gets 'used up' by them though, it may well be a different story and they might 'move home' so to speak! Fingers crossed it doesn't come to that though.

The weather here is also very conducive to their breeding development, as it's hot and dry.

I've been spraying under the leaves regularly and have used a soapy hot pepper spray a few times too, but their population is increasing a quite a rate and the plant's ended up almost overrun with them; no webbing yet however.


Regarding the plant you're interested in, unfortunately I don't have any info. It may well be one of the varieties I believe are local Italian strains, but I will conduct further analysis of the fruit, and compare to other pics of heirlooms online. If I can identify it, I will post the name for you, and if not, I will post you some seeds so you can grow it next season in your garden over there in the US.


Best regards

[tomstrees]

lol ~ No prob. ! I know budgets get tight ...
I'm getting married in Sept. so my budget is
REALLY tight, lol ~ I think all of my 5-gallon buckets
were "collected" (people throw them out and I say "mater-pot"!).

I only grow organic, so if a plant is too weak from disease,
and doesn't respond well to "feeding", it simply gets yanked.
I can't take the risk of putting some kind of fungicide on
something I eat ...

I had an aphid infestation on my eggplant this season,
but with the addition of a few ladybugs, I was able to
eliminate the problem "naturally".
Do any predators feast on spider-mites ? I wonder ...

If you can, could you take a photo of that plant I'm interested in the development of ? Looks really green and healthy, and I like the leaf shape a lot.

I'm currently working on my own tomato that resulted from a natural cross from seeds from a "Wonderlight" tomato.
After saving seeds it produced a large beefsteak, tastey, productive, disease tolerant, yellow tomato, that I have a working name of
"Toms Yellow Wonder".

I'd be more than happy to share seeds with it from you in trade ...
Have a great weekend ~

Tom

Toms Yellow Wonder (working name):
[img]https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e94/tomstrees/Toms%20Yellow%20Wonder/P7140109.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e94/tomstrees/Toms%20Yellow%20Wonder/GSlice.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e94/tomstrees/Toms%20Yellow%20Wonder/PictureTomMisc-5.jpg[/img]

[HeirloomToms]

Thanks for sharing the interesting pics, and for the seed trade offer Tom All the best for your wedding in September too

It's been a while, and I've been very busy, but it's time for an update!

I'm not overly happy with the way things have gone, but it has at least helped my learning process.

The problem has been down to inadequate fertiliser - I.e. not enough calcium causing blossom end rot, and too much nitrogen causing a lack of fruit, and also adding to the blossom end rot problem.

That part is my fault as I didn't spend enough money on fertiliser; trying to do it on the cheap and hoping it would work!

I have also looked in all the local shops and garden centres, and can't find an organic booster, or dolomite lime or calcium chloride to combat the blossom end rot - there are just basic products around here it seems

The small pot size the plants are in hasn't helped either, but that's not been the main problem.

The other problem I've had, as I've mentioned before, is red two spotted spider mite. They have spread around the plants now, and although they've not got really bad ( I.e. no webbing), their population has grown steadily and caused quite a bit of damage.

It's not a major disaster as there's not much fruit anyway, due to the excess nitrogen, and the fruit that is there mostly has blossom end rot anyway.

However, red spider mite are never a good addition to a garden...


Here are some pics of the situation as of today:


Here's a group shot as of today (18 August):

[img]https://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb92/heirloomtoms/Group18aug.jpg[/img]



This is the unknown plant which you're interested in Tom:

[img]https://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb92/heirloomtoms/unknown-18aug.jpg[/img]



Here's a closer shot showing the fruit:

[img]https://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb92/heirloomtoms/Unknown_Mid_Shot.jpg[/img]



Unknown plant fruit, semi/fully (?) ripe, with blossom end rot

[img]https://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb92/heirloomtoms/Unknown_Fruit_BER.jpg[/img]



Unknown plant fruit, unripe, and no blossom end rot (as yet)

[img]https://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb92/heirloomtoms/Unknown_Fruit_Not_Ripe.jpg[/img]



Spidermite damage on the top of the leaves of the plant damaged in the wind:

[img]https://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb92/heirloomtoms/Spidermite_Leaf_Top.jpg[/img]



The underside of the leaves with the spidermites themselves

[img]https://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb92/heirloomtoms/Spidermite_Leaf_Under.jpg[/img]



White Wonder Plant

[img]https://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb92/heirloomtoms/WW_Plant_18aug.jpg[/img]



White Wonder fruit harvested (sliced slightly with knife prior to photo, as was collecting seeds - see below) - it looks very similar to your cross Tom: Toms Yellow Wonder, albeit a darker shade of yellow

[img]https://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb92/heirloomtoms/WW_fruit_18aug.jpg[/img]


Some blossom rot, but not too serious on this one - seems more resilient:

[img]https://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb92/heirloomtoms/WW_BlossomRot-18aug.jpg[/img]


Another shot of the same fruit

[img]https://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb92/heirloomtoms/WW_Side_18aug.jpg[/img]


Upon tasting, the White Wonder is very tasty and sweet - outstanding flavour ---- here are the harvested seeds, drying, for next season:

[img]https://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb92/heirloomtoms/SeedsWW_drying-18aug.jpg[/img]



Here's a pic of a plant which is dying, for unknown reasons - the fruit is pepper shaped and red when ripe - I harvested one tom off it a few days ago - very tasty too and will harvest this one today, and collect the seeds from it too --- I've treated this plant the same as the others, so if anyone has an idea as to why it's dying, then please let me know, thanks

[img]https://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb92/heirloomtoms/Pepper_Shaped_Fruit_Dying.jpg[/img]

[cecilsgarden]

Hi. The picture where it is referred to as mites sucking leaves dry, I notice you are also suffering from "Chlorosis" ie: A yellow whittish discoloration between the leaf veins. You are most likely lacking a mineral like Magnesium, Calcium or Manganese.

CECIL

Hi to Tomstress, fancy meeting you here