2013-14 WHO'LL BE GROWING WINTER TOMATOES INSIDE THIS YEAR?

ReptileAddiction · Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:18 am

I honestly don't know how you guys do not get sick of growing tomatoes. In my garden by the time I yank them I am so sick of them. Right about now I start to want to plant them again and by the time to plant them I can not wait. I would not be able to grow them all year long.

applestar · Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:23 am

We -- or at least *I* am weak. Cannot take the deprivation until planting time -- seed starting for summer tomatoes isn't until mid Feb at earliest, and actual planting not until late April/early May.

...can't wait to take a pic of the ripening fruit and show you all. Looking good I can almost taste it.

applestar · Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:37 am

...and tah dah! ...almost ready to pick -- a couple more days at most

: First to ripen Kootenai

It's about 1" across viewed this way but it's actually elliptical and is more like 1-3/4" at widest. Once this is harvested, the larger fruit which is about 2" across at widest should color break and blush. In the garden at maximum growth (28-30" high) some Kootenai fruits got to be maybe 2-1/2" in diameter so there isn't a whole lot of fruit size reduction in the container so far, and this is still a very small plant.

Northernfox · Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:39 pm

I cant wait for mine to be ready!

gixxerific · Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:38 pm

Forgot to mention I have some ripe fruit as well. JA Yellow X Hippie Zebra F2 first ripe winter tomato. Pics to follow.

applestar · Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:31 pm

Cherokee Tiger Large Red update:

: Biggest mega bloom fused fruit is currently about 1" across and growing....

applestar · Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:09 pm

1st to ripen red Kootenai with what should have been Coyote -- these turned out considerably darker yellow and larger than the summer fruits so maybe it was bee crossed -- Jaune FlammÃ©e was the only yellow nearby and that would have been the right color and could account for the increased size?
(2 Fish peppers and a small JalapeÃ±o)

rainbowgardener · Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:19 pm

Beautiful! It is just amazing to me that you can grow all that indoors, in winter, without high intensity lights or any really fancy equipment.

I'm still not trying it. Pretty much all available window space is taken up with all my house plants and all the ornamentals that get over-wintered. That's even more true right now, because the best window space with an almost floor to ceiling picture window facing mostly west and 2 windows on the other wall of the corner, facing mostly south, is now taken up with the Christmas tree. All the plants and trees that were there have been relegated to other (less light) spaces.

I don't want to put anything under the lights in the basement, because in just about a month seed starting starts again. And I must say, I enjoy a little break from gardening in Nov/Dec while I do holiday stuff. Makes me more ready to start again...

applestar · Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:48 pm

Haha I *used* to have all those house plants... Somehow, over the years, they have been superseded by edibles or other + alpha. Truly non-producing/ornamental "house plants" I have left are 2 Chenille plants, a couple of orchids and African violets, and a Norfolk Island Pine... Oh and a Ficus elastica though that's technically an useful plant... Oh I have the poinsettia, Thanksgiving cactus and night blooming cereus too.... and a couple of zebra plant succulent that really doesn't produce anything... Oh and some stick/pencil cactus that I begged cuttings from my daughter's dentist to propagate... Maybe I have quite a few house plants still after all....

...I dunno... This is more fun --- and you get to eat them, too.

(Close up of prolific Sweet n Neat -- 1/2" small cherries
-- with 2nd to ripen Kootenai and more to follow)

Juliuskitty · Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:55 pm

Beautiful. Nice job!
My apologies ahead of time if you have already answered this, as I haven't read the whole thread, but that looks to be a dwarf growing with the rugose dark green foliage. What variety is it please? Just curious because this is my first year growing dwarfs, and they are impressive.

applestar · Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:01 pm

Edited the post above to indicate varieties

I'm seeing most action from the Family Room Winter Wonderland. Maybe it's because DH was cranking the heat in there, making the room even warmer than upstairs bedrooms... maybe it's because we spend more time in there, filling the room with CO2... or most likely it's because that's the room that overall gets most sun and biggest (4-tube. T-8 fixture) longest duration supplemental light

...but today, I noticed that the upstairs striped fruit that doesn't look like Jaune FlammÃ©e as labeled ---Maybe more like Tigerella with these stripes? -- is stirring in DD's bedroom

<<< still picking off tomato leafminer caterpillars as soon as I find them (obviously I'm missing some and they are morphing into adult pregnant moths

)
<<< and the week of warm before this snowstorm decended on us brought in more pesky ants and aphids

. -- happy to see the outdoor thermometer registering at 24Â°F

GardenFresh · Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:53 am

Just wanted to follow up and say that my growing is doing quite well and I have a number of cherry tomatoes on and getting bigger. My only concern at this point is since my growing area is in the unfinished basement, the recent cold snap outside is really putting a damper on the temp. Right now I am only averaging a high of like 70 to 72 and the low goes down to about 59 with the lights off.

I'd really like to get that temp up a little and stay constant around 75-78 but not sure if I should add a little heater or what....

Any suggestions.....?

applestar · Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:03 pm

The family room where winter wonderland is was only 56Â°F this morning and The cool gang on the floor is still sitting at 57Â°F. I think your 70's high and 50's low would not keep them from blooming and fruiting as long as you are diligent about e. toothbrushing the blossoms.

Mine will be very slow to ripen.

GardenFresh · Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:22 pm

applestar wrote:The family room where winter wonderland is was only 56Â°F this morning and The cool gang on the floor is still sitting at 57Â°F. I think your 70's high and 50's low would not keep them from blooming and fruiting as long as you are diligent about e. toothbrushing the blossoms.

Mine will be very slow to ripen.

Thanks for your reply...I have been e-toothbrushing the blossoms every couple of days or so. I also have been trying to remember to mist with water bottle. Last night I did and the humidity went up from the 40's to the 60's in no time flat:)

I'm ready for some maters.....

applestar · Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:32 am

Good luck and have fun! I'm harvesting the 2nd ripe Kootenai today (and a third is on it's way

)

: 2nd and third ripening Kootenai

The upstairs fruit is ripening red and with the already present striping, it looks like this was a Tigerella and not Jaune FlammÃ©e as I thought.

: Looks like Tigerella

I think they were originally together in a community seed starting ice cream tub -- JF on one side and T on the other, and it was the T that survived not JF

This first fruit is about 17 inches up the vine -- maybe typical for an indeterminate and a trait that may be unsuitable for my criteria.

Juliuskitty · Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:40 am

Applestar, is this Tigerella potato leafed, asit looks in the photo?Do you think it may be a cross? Tatiana's wiki page mentions regular leaf for it. It is a pretty little tomato though. She has photos of it too, yours looks a little different.
Here's the link:https://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Tigerella

applestar · Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:41 pm

Hmm. Tigerella should be regular leaf. I'm still not good at recognizing the leaf shapes on mature plants, but now that you mention it, these leaves look "normal" -- i.e. They don't stand out -- next to the other two plants in this area -- Rainbow Dwarf and Redhouse Free Standing which are both potato leaf varieties ...I was also thinking this morning that the summer Tigerella fruits were somewhat taller than their width unlike this one which is more squat.
-- so maybe you are right.

I guess I should plan on saving these seeds to see what happens when they are grown out again.

applestar · Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:20 am

Winter Wonderland

: (2 fire engine red fruits all the way to the left are Peppadew peppers, and the bright red fruit all the way to the right is a Corno di Toro pepper )

Close up of the 3 currently ripening Kootenai fruits

Upstairs mystery (not quite Tigerella)

: Stripes/streaks have yellowed and this fruit is ready to pick

Including the NOT Tigerella, tomatoes harvested to date:
Kootenai: 4
NOT Coyote: 2
NOT tigerella: 1

...so the novelty is (finally

) wearing off and I won't be reporting every ripening fruit henceforth

but I think you get the idea. I'm pleased that the harvesting has started before Christmas as intended by starting the winter tomato seeds at beginning of August, and will most likely continue with this schedule in the future.

Oh, I WILL start making note of the flavors. ...and... I should mention that these two Kootenai that have been producing ripe fruits are already showing signs of wear with yellowing leaves. It may be that their determinate lifespan is already ticking away, or they are running out of nutrients in the small containers and I should have been feeding them more. Another possibility is that the recent aphid outbreak also introduced some kind of disease. But I think I'll be getting at least six 1.5-2.5 inch fruits from each plant in the 6.5 inch nursery containers.

Actually, the other Kootenai plant in the double decker udon-cup already has 12 green fruits growing.

applestar · Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:29 am

Couple more photos

Kootenai with over dozen fruits:

: Cherokee Tiger Large Red

: Cherokee Tiger Striped Plum

: L to R: Kootenai, Sweet N Neat (pink), Kootenai

Northernfox · Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:51 am

Looking good my friends!

I just re-potted all of my tomatoes last night when it is a little lighter ill take some pictures of my babies

I have green tomatoes on there!

Juliuskitty · Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:20 pm

Really a nice job Applestar, very impressive for NJ in winter!

GardenFresh · Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:23 pm

All

Just wanted to post an update on my tomatoes and some pics with questions.

Here are my cherries doing quite well and prob ready to turn red any day now:

Next are my San Marzano's not doing to bad and starting to get some fruit:

I have noticed that some of the San Marzano's are developing brown spots or areas at the bottom of the fruit and I am not sure what that is all about....any assistance would be appreciated:

Juliuskitty · Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:30 pm

It looks like blossom end rot. Paste types are notorious for getting BER. It is a calcium distribution problem, most often comes from uneven watering, and is very prevalent also in container gardening. The good news is most of the time, the plant outgrows it, so it becomes a non- issue.
Gardenfresh, if you are growing in containers, as I do, you might want to try giving them some Calcinit ( calcium nitrate) as a snack( insurance!). I get mine at Kelp4less.com and it is water soluble and very inexpensive. They ship free. No, I don't own stock in them.

GardenFresh · Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:09 pm

Juliuskitty-

Thanks for the info on BER. Can I use ground up egg shells for a calcium boost instead of buying something? If so, how many shells per plant would you use?

applestar · Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:03 pm

Take a look at the blossom end rot sticky. Be sure you're not putting them through drought/flood cycle.

I like spraying with milk solution which provides fungal issue resistance -- I don't know if the aerosol milk can or can't supply foliar calcium, but I understand foliar calcium feeding is what is needed to quickly turn them around. Eggshells will take too long to break down in the soil and the plants are already having trouble with their calcium uptake via the roots by the time BER shows up.

GardenFresh · Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:22 pm

Applestar-

Thanks for the info and link to the sticky for BER. From what I have read it seems very seldom the result of low calcium. I also read a few posts saying it was most likely a result of watering issues like you stated in your previous post.

With that in mind, can you elaborate on proper watering for potted tomatoes like mine which are in 5 gallon buckets? I have a feeling my watering schedule isnt quite up to par. I have a tendency of waiting at least 2 or 3 days before watering and the soil is really dry. Then I prob over water with a lot of water. Maybe I should be watering a little every day or every other instead of a lot every 3 or so.

Thanks for any assistance you can provide.....

Juliuskitty · Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:56 am

I am not Applestar, but if it is OK, I can illuminate on that issue somewhat. In general, you should never let the aggregate get completely dry. Drip irrigation systems offer consistant watering, can be set up for containers, but might not be necessary for your needs.
Some questions before answering, please. First, what is in your potting mix? Is it potting soil, or potting mix? Did you add any dolomite lime, or garden lime( basically same thing)? What type of fetilizer, and whats your schedule for it, or did you place a "strip"at the beginning? Is your 5 gallon bucket a single bucket, or a self watering type of system?
A lot of the BER writing pertained to planting in soil, which is very different than container gardening.

applestar · Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:41 am

Yep. Thanks juliuskitty

-- or anyone else -- please do post answers to any questions posted if you know the answer.

Watering IS the issue. I usually do the "stick finger in the soil" test. But actual amount and frequency to water will depend on the size of the container, how moisture retentive the growing medium is, and the number and size of drain holes in the bucket -- how well the water drains out.

In a tall container like 5 gal buckets, the bottom can remain wet/moist while the top has dried out. There would be a gradual level of dryness from top to bottom. I would let the surface dry (putting finger on the surface of the mix feels dry) and water when a finger pushed into the mix about 1 inch still feels little or no moisture (for me that's first two joints of the forefinger) --- but I wouldn't want to let the 2nd inch layer to become dry (first two joints of *my* middle finger).

I have started drilling holes in the SIDES of containers. My two gal buckets get a series of holes at the bottom rim and halfway up. I would drill holes at bottom then 1/3 and 2/3 of the way up the sides of 5 gal buckets.

Temperature and humidity will affect how quickly the mix dries out. Also, when it's colder OUTSIDE, the heater runs more often to maintain the thermostat temp, so the air dries out more.

INDIVIDUALLY, the plants will need water more or less depending on their developmental stage. Once they start setting fruits, they drink a lot more than when they are just foliage. So you need to check them individually and water accordingly. Unlike outside on the ground where the moisture levels will even out somewhat, each container is it's own little world.

I have heard, though not confirmed, that although the term is "foliar" (leaf) feeding, the developing fruits can absorb calcium through their skin while they are still small/tiny. But by the time you actually notice BER on larger green fruits, it's too late.

You do need some calcium in the growing medium to begin with and commercial potting mix --especially peat and perlite type potting mix-- are not likely to have any (or very little). I like organic potting mix that contain compost and mycos (mycorrhizae) when I'm buying them, and use my own home made compost, vermicompost and under the woodpile or leaf pile topsoil when mixing my own. Other stuff I add also provide macro and micro nutrients and minerals -- rock phosphate, greensand, dolomitic lime, Kelp meal, pelleted alfalfa, and sand. I do sometimes add eggshells at time of planting in the bottom of the container, but rarely later on.

Whenever possible, I also add earthworms to the plant pots. On Christmas, I came home with two 1/2 pt containers of "baby crawlers" after visiting with BIL who went fishing and got me extra from the baits shop. ("Whatcha getting your SIL for Christmas?" ... "A couple of boxes of worms."

) He's promised to get me redworms (red wigglers) for my vermicomposter next time -- which may be today since he and DH went fishing for lake trout early this morning

applestar · Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:07 am

BTW I have started supplementing with my little indoor AA(C*)T set up

: 2 gal bucket, 4" air disk and an air pump

* At the moment, it's bubbling about 1/3 cup of alfalfa pellets and organic potting mix containing myco plus a dribble of molasses. At various times, I may add used coffee grounds (UCG), rinse out water of last dregs from milk, juice, soda, etc cartons and bottles, bokashi, vermicompost, etc. It's like a witches cauldron

Right now, it's pretty concentrated stuff and the thing actually bubbled over yesterday. I continue to add water as I take some of this out so the concentration is variable, but I mix 1/5, 1/4 to 1/3 of this with 4/5, 3/4 to 2/3 de-chlorinated water -- so diluted 1:4, 1:3 to 1:2 -- for every 2nd or 3rd watering or so (I'm guessing about once a week). Nothing is carefully measured

applestar · Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:58 am

Sweet N Neat is starting to blush:

GardenFresh · Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:41 pm

Juliuskitty wrote:I am not Applestar, but if it is OK, I can illuminate on that issue somewhat. In general, you should never let the aggregate get completely dry. Drip irrigation systems offer consistant watering, can be set up for containers, but might not be necessary for your needs.
Some questions before answering, please. First, what is in your potting mix? Is it potting soil, or potting mix? Did you add any dolomite lime, or garden lime( basically same thing)? What type of fetilizer, and whats your schedule for it, or did you place a "strip"at the beginning? Is your 5 gallon bucket a single bucket, or a self watering type of system?
A lot of the BER writing pertained to planting in soil, which is very different than container gardening.

Juliuskitty-

Sorry about that...I did not mean just Applestar specific...and yes I appreciate your assistance or anyone's for that matter:)

Just to answer some of your questions:

First, what is in your potting mix? (I simply use topsoil and mushroom soil...trying to keep things as organic as possible)

Did you add any dolomite lime, or garden lime( basically same thing)? (No)

What type of fertilizer, and whats your schedule for it, or did you place a "strip"at the beginning? (No, figured the mushroom soil would give it enough fertilizer for now).

Is your 5 gallon bucket a single bucket, or a self watering type of system? (I use a 2 bucket system..I drill holes in the top bucket and let it drain into the second bucket.)

GardenFresh · Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:45 pm

applestar wrote:Yep. Thanks juliuskitty -- or anyone else -- please do post answers to any questions posted if you know the answer.

Watering IS the issue. I usually do the "stick finger in the soil" test. But actual amount and frequency to water will depend on the size of the container, how moisture retentive the growing medium is, and the number and size of drain holes in the bucket -- how well the water drains out.

In a tall container like 5 gal buckets, the bottom can remain wet/moist while the top has dried out. There would be a gradual level of dryness from top to bottom. I would let the surface dry (putting finger on the surface of the mix feels dry) and water when a finger pushed into the mix about 1 inch still feels little or no moisture (for me that's first two joints of the forefinger) --- but I wouldn't want to let the 2nd inch layer to become dry (first two joints of *my* middle finger).

I have started drilling holes in the SIDES of containers. My two gal buckets get a series of holes at the bottom rim and halfway up. I would drill holes at bottom then 1/3 and 2/3 of the way up the sides of 5 gal buckets.

Temperature and humidity will affect how quickly the mix dries out. Also, when it's colder OUTSIDE, the heater runs more often to maintain the thermostat temp, so the air dries out more.

INDIVIDUALLY, the plants will need water more or less depending on their developmental stage. Once they start setting fruits, they drink a lot more than when they are just foliage. So you need to check them individually and water accordingly. Unlike outside on the ground where the moisture levels will even out somewhat, each container is it's own little world.

I have heard, though not confirmed, that although the term is "foliar" (leaf) feeding, the developing fruits can absorb calcium through their skin while they are still small/tiny. But by the time you actually notice BER on larger green fruits, it's too late.

You do need some calcium in the growing medium to begin with and commercial potting mix --especially peat and perlite type potting mix-- are not likely to have any (or very little). I like organic potting mix that contain compost and mycos (mycorrhizae) when I'm buying them, and use my own home made compost, vermicompost and under the woodpile or leaf pile topsoil when mixing my own. Other stuff I add also provide macro and micro nutrients and minerals -- rock phosphate, greensand, dolomitic lime, Kelp meal, pelleted alfalfa, and sand. I do sometimes add eggshells at time of planting in the bottom of the container, but rarely later on.

Whenever possible, I also add earthworms to the plant pots. On Christmas, I came home with two 1/2 pt containers of "baby crawlers" after visiting with BIL who went fishing and got me extra from the baits shop. ("Whatcha getting your SIL for Christmas?" ... "A couple of boxes of worms." ) He's promised to get me redworms (red wigglers) for my vermicomposter next time -- which may be today since he and DH went fishing for lake trout early this morning

Applestar-

Thanks for the detailed post. I will start practicing the finger soil test. Usually when I water the top is fairly dry. I have about 5 holes in the bottom about 7/8 in diameter each I think (if I remember correctly). I just figured the bottom layer was dry as well. I hear it drain after I get done watering.

I might start drilling holes in the sides like you mentioned. Of course that will have to wait until next year. I went ahead and picked off the tomatoes with BER and hoping that new fruit may turn out ok.

Not sure what else to do at this point...maybe adding some lime...I assume that is organic (trying to keep things as natural and organic as possible).

Thanks.....

Juliuskitty · Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:30 pm

Gardenfresh, I sent you a PM.

applestar · Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:29 pm

Quick update pics:

Sweet N Neat is looking good. I'll pick one or more fruits tomorrow:

: Sweet N Neat pink

This Kootenai is going down, but the fruits can be saved:

: Sorry looking Kootenai

GardenFresh · Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:15 pm

Juliuskitty wrote:Gardenfresh, I sent you a PM.

Sorry for the late response...yes I got your PM and will reply when I get a chance....with the holidays and a 7 month old, time is def not on my side....LOL

Applestar-

Nice pics...I may need to drive up there and buy some tomatoes from you...mine are not looking to hot!

rainbowgardener · Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:52 am

Applestar, just because I'm curious and I so admire what you are doing, why is the Kootenai going down, what is killing it? I looked back at the beginning of this thread and it was planted the beginning of Aug. That makes it 5 months old now. When I start tomatoes in Feb and grow them in the ground, they (usually) have no trouble producing until frost killed in Oct.

Is it disease? Is it the difference between growing in ground and growing in buckets (e.g. roots too crowded, using up the soil nutrients)? OR?

thanks for your reply and your awesome example!

applestar · Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:30 am

Primarily, Kootenai is a determinate.

https://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Kootenai

But I did drown it

-- probably at a critical juncture. It was sucking up water really fast with so many fruits to support, then one day all of a sudden it stopped, and I didn't realize it so that it sat soaking in water filled drip tray for over 36 hours.

For what this may indicate, the other plant that has been following parallel growth rate has been yellowing as well even though it doesn't have/has not produced as many fruits.

I'll have to go back and check my notes, but I think in the summer Winter Trial garden, Kootenai grew to be about 28" tall and produced smatterings of small fruits even after the first numerous lump mass production until something like late July/early August. It was exceedingly drought and shade tolerant even growing in the willow oak root zone, though it was not as flavorful as ManÃ¶. (I was also going to grow ManÃ¶ this winter but the seeds failed at the very start).

gixxerific · Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:21 pm

nice to see you are still going Applestar. My plants are all gone they were taken down by the mysterous evil that took over. Now I think i have a mouse eating my drying seeds. I can't win for loosing.

Keep it going, won't be long till we shift gears for spring.

applestar · Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:44 am

Cherokee Tiger Striped Plum is starting to color break

: Cherokee Tiger Striped Plum; image.jpg (59.62 KiB) Viewed 2050 times

Another Coyote (?) almost ripe

Have been harvesting the Sweet n Neat as they ripen. Not really sweet like the summer harvest, but juicy and nice tangy good tomato flavor burst.

Juliuskitty · Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:41 pm

applestar wrote:Cherokee Tiger Striped Plum is starting to color break
image.jpg
Another Coyote (?) almost ripe
image.jpg
Have been harvesting the Sweet n Neat as they ripen. Not really sweet like the summer harvest, but juicy and nice tangy good tomato flavor burst.

Very much looking forward to a photo of CTSP when it colors up.