2013-14 WHO'LL BE GROWING WINTER TOMATOES INSIDE THIS YEAR?

[Juliuskitty]

Applestar, is this Tigerella potato leafed, asit looks in the photo?Do you think it may be a cross? Tatiana's wiki page mentions regular leaf for it. It is a pretty little tomato though. She has photos of it too, yours looks a little different.
Here's the link:https://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Tigerella

[applestar]

Hmm. Tigerella should be regular leaf. I'm still not good at recognizing the leaf shapes on mature plants, but now that you mention it, these leaves look "normal" -- I.e. They don't stand out -- next to the other two plants in this area -- Rainbow Dwarf and Redhouse Free Standing which are both potato leaf varieties ...I was also thinking this morning that the summer Tigerella fruits were somewhat taller than their width unlike this one which is more squat.
-- so maybe you are right.


I guess I should plan on saving these seeds to see what happens when they are grown out again.

[applestar]

Winter Wonderland

(2 fire engine red fruits all the way to the left are Peppadew peppers, and the bright red fruit all the way to the right is a Corno di Toro pepper )

Close up of the 3 currently ripening Kootenai fruits

Upstairs mystery (not quite Tigerella)

Stripes/streaks have yellowed and this fruit is ready to pick

Including the NOT Tigerella, tomatoes harvested to date:
Kootenai: 4
NOT Coyote: 2
NOT tigerella: 1

...so the novelty is (finally ) wearing off and I won't be reporting every ripening fruit henceforth but I think you get the idea. I'm pleased that the harvesting has started before Christmas as intended by starting the winter tomato seeds at beginning of August, and will most likely continue with this schedule in the future.

Oh, I WILL start making note of the flavors. ...and... I should mention that these two Kootenai that have been producing ripe fruits are already showing signs of wear with yellowing leaves. It may be that their determinate lifespan is already ticking away, or they are running out of nutrients in the small containers and I should have been feeding them more. Another possibility is that the recent aphid outbreak also introduced some kind of disease. But I think I'll be getting at least six 1.5-2.5 inch fruits from each plant in the 6.5 inch nursery containers.

Actually, the other Kootenai plant in the double decker udon-cup already has 12 green fruits growing.

[applestar]

Couple more photos

Kootenai with over dozen fruits:

Cherokee Tiger Large Red

Cherokee Tiger Striped Plum

L to R: Kootenai, Sweet N Neat (pink), Kootenai

[Northernfox]

Looking good my friends!

I just re-potted all of my tomatoes last night when it is a little lighter ill take some pictures of my babies I have green tomatoes on there!

[Juliuskitty]

Really a nice job Applestar, very impressive for NJ in winter!

[GardenFresh]

All

Just wanted to post an update on my tomatoes and some pics with questions.

Here are my cherries doing quite well and prob ready to turn red any day now:



Next are my San Marzano's not doing to bad and starting to get some fruit:



I have noticed that some of the San Marzano's are developing brown spots or areas at the bottom of the fruit and I am not sure what that is all about....any assistance would be appreciated:

[Juliuskitty]

It looks like blossom end rot. Paste types are notorious for getting BER. It is a calcium distribution problem, most often comes from uneven watering, and is very prevalent also in container gardening. The good news is most of the time, the plant outgrows it, so it becomes a non- issue.
Gardenfresh, if you are growing in containers, as I do, you might want to try giving them some Calcinit ( calcium nitrate) as a snack( insurance!). I get mine at Kelp4less.com and it is water soluble and very inexpensive. They ship free. No, I don't own stock in them.

[GardenFresh]

Juliuskitty-

Thanks for the info on BER. Can I use ground up egg shells for a calcium boost instead of buying something? If so, how many shells per plant would you use?

[applestar]

Take a look at the blossom end rot sticky. Be sure you're not putting them through drought/flood cycle.

I like spraying with milk solution which provides fungal issue resistance -- I don't know if the aerosol milk can or can't supply foliar calcium, but I understand foliar calcium feeding is what is needed to quickly turn them around. Eggshells will take too long to break down in the soil and the plants are already having trouble with their calcium uptake via the roots by the time BER shows up.

[GardenFresh]

Applestar-

Thanks for the info and link to the sticky for BER. From what I have read it seems very seldom the result of low calcium. I also read a few posts saying it was most likely a result of watering issues like you stated in your previous post.

With that in mind, can you elaborate on proper watering for potted tomatoes like mine which are in 5 gallon buckets? I have a feeling my watering schedule isnt quite up to par. I have a tendency of waiting at least 2 or 3 days before watering and the soil is really dry. Then I prob over water with a lot of water. Maybe I should be watering a little every day or every other instead of a lot every 3 or so.

Thanks for any assistance you can provide.....

[Juliuskitty]

I am not Applestar, but if it is OK, I can illuminate on that issue somewhat. In general, you should never let the aggregate get completely dry. Drip irrigation systems offer consistant watering, can be set up for containers, but might not be necessary for your needs.
Some questions before answering, please. First, what is in your potting mix? Is it potting soil, or potting mix? Did you add any dolomite lime, or garden lime( basically same thing)? What type of fetilizer, and whats your schedule for it, or did you place a "strip"at the beginning? Is your 5 gallon bucket a single bucket, or a self watering type of system?
A lot of the BER writing pertained to planting in soil, which is very different than container gardening.

[applestar]

Yep. Thanks juliuskitty -- or anyone else -- please do post answers to any questions posted if you know the answer.

Watering IS the issue. I usually do the "stick finger in the soil" test. But actual amount and frequency to water will depend on the size of the container, how moisture retentive the growing medium is, and the number and size of drain holes in the bucket -- how well the water drains out.

In a tall container like 5 gal buckets, the bottom can remain wet/moist while the top has dried out. There would be a gradual level of dryness from top to bottom. I would let the surface dry (putting finger on the surface of the mix feels dry) and water when a finger pushed into the mix about 1 inch still feels little or no moisture (for me that's first two joints of the forefinger) --- but I wouldn't want to let the 2nd inch layer to become dry (first two joints of *my* middle finger).

I have started drilling holes in the SIDES of containers. My two gal buckets get a series of holes at the bottom rim and halfway up. I would drill holes at bottom then 1/3 and 2/3 of the way up the sides of 5 gal buckets.

Temperature and humidity will affect how quickly the mix dries out. Also, when it's colder OUTSIDE, the heater runs more often to maintain the thermostat temp, so the air dries out more.

INDIVIDUALLY, the plants will need water more or less depending on their developmental stage. Once they start setting fruits, they drink a lot more than when they are just foliage. So you need to check them individually and water accordingly. Unlike outside on the ground where the moisture levels will even out somewhat, each container is it's own little world.

I have heard, though not confirmed, that although the term is "foliar" (leaf) feeding, the developing fruits can absorb calcium through their skin while they are still small/tiny. But by the time you actually notice BER on larger green fruits, it's too late.

You do need some calcium in the growing medium to begin with and commercial potting mix --especially peat and perlite type potting mix-- are not likely to have any (or very little). I like organic potting mix that contain compost and mycos (mycorrhizae) when I'm buying them, and use my own home made compost, vermicompost and under the woodpile or leaf pile topsoil when mixing my own. Other stuff I add also provide macro and micro nutrients and minerals -- rock phosphate, greensand, dolomitic lime, Kelp meal, pelleted alfalfa, and sand. I do sometimes add eggshells at time of planting in the bottom of the container, but rarely later on.

Whenever possible, I also add earthworms to the plant pots. On Christmas, I came home with two 1/2 pt containers of "baby crawlers" after visiting with BIL who went fishing and got me extra from the baits shop. ("Whatcha getting your SIL for Christmas?" ... "A couple of boxes of worms." ) He's promised to get me redworms (red wigglers) for my vermicomposter next time -- which may be today since he and DH went fishing for lake trout early this morning

[applestar]

BTW I have started supplementing with my little indoor AA(C*)T set up

2 gal bucket, 4" air disk and an air pump

* At the moment, it's bubbling about 1/3 cup of alfalfa pellets and organic potting mix containing myco plus a dribble of molasses. At various times, I may add used coffee grounds (UCG), rinse out water of last dregs from milk, juice, soda, etc cartons and bottles, bokashi, vermicompost, etc. It's like a witches cauldron

Right now, it's pretty concentrated stuff and the thing actually bubbled over yesterday. I continue to add water as I take some of this out so the concentration is variable, but I mix 1/5, 1/4 to 1/3 of this with 4/5, 3/4 to 2/3 de-chlorinated water -- so diluted 1:4, 1:3 to 1:2 -- for every 2nd or 3rd watering or so (I'm guessing about once a week). Nothing is carefully measured

[applestar]

Sweet N Neat is starting to blush:

[GardenFresh]

I am not Applestar, but if it is OK, I can illuminate on that issue somewhat. In general, you should never let the aggregate get completely dry. Drip irrigation systems offer consistant watering, can be set up for containers, but might not be necessary for your needs.
Some questions before answering, please. First, what is in your potting mix? Is it potting soil, or potting mix? Did you add any dolomite lime, or garden lime( basically same thing)? What type of fetilizer, and whats your schedule for it, or did you place a "strip"at the beginning? Is your 5 gallon bucket a single bucket, or a self watering type of system?
A lot of the BER writing pertained to planting in soil, which is very different than container gardening.

Juliuskitty-

Sorry about that...I did not mean just Applestar specific...and yes I appreciate your assistance or anyone's for that matter:)

Just to answer some of your questions:

First, what is in your potting mix? (I simply use topsoil and mushroom soil...trying to keep things as organic as possible)

Did you add any dolomite lime, or garden lime( basically same thing)? (No)

What type of fertilizer, and whats your schedule for it, or did you place a "strip"at the beginning? (No, figured the mushroom soil would give it enough fertilizer for now).

Is your 5 gallon bucket a single bucket, or a self watering type of system? (I use a 2 bucket system..I drill holes in the top bucket and let it drain into the second bucket.)

[GardenFresh]

Yep. Thanks juliuskitty -- or anyone else -- please do post answers to any questions posted if you know the answer.

Watering IS the issue. I usually do the "stick finger in the soil" test. But actual amount and frequency to water will depend on the size of the container, how moisture retentive the growing medium is, and the number and size of drain holes in the bucket -- how well the water drains out.

In a tall container like 5 gal buckets, the bottom can remain wet/moist while the top has dried out. There would be a gradual level of dryness from top to bottom. I would let the surface dry (putting finger on the surface of the mix feels dry) and water when a finger pushed into the mix about 1 inch still feels little or no moisture (for me that's first two joints of the forefinger) --- but I wouldn't want to let the 2nd inch layer to become dry (first two joints of *my* middle finger).

I have started drilling holes in the SIDES of containers. My two gal buckets get a series of holes at the bottom rim and halfway up. I would drill holes at bottom then 1/3 and 2/3 of the way up the sides of 5 gal buckets.

Temperature and humidity will affect how quickly the mix dries out. Also, when it's colder OUTSIDE, the heater runs more often to maintain the thermostat temp, so the air dries out more.

INDIVIDUALLY, the plants will need water more or less depending on their developmental stage. Once they start setting fruits, they drink a lot more than when they are just foliage. So you need to check them individually and water accordingly. Unlike outside on the ground where the moisture levels will even out somewhat, each container is it's own little world.

I have heard, though not confirmed, that although the term is "foliar" (leaf) feeding, the developing fruits can absorb calcium through their skin while they are still small/tiny. But by the time you actually notice BER on larger green fruits, it's too late.

You do need some calcium in the growing medium to begin with and commercial potting mix --especially peat and perlite type potting mix-- are not likely to have any (or very little). I like organic potting mix that contain compost and mycos (mycorrhizae) when I'm buying them, and use my own home made compost, vermicompost and under the woodpile or leaf pile topsoil when mixing my own. Other stuff I add also provide macro and micro nutrients and minerals -- rock phosphate, greensand, dolomitic lime, Kelp meal, pelleted alfalfa, and sand. I do sometimes add eggshells at time of planting in the bottom of the container, but rarely later on.

Whenever possible, I also add earthworms to the plant pots. On Christmas, I came home with two 1/2 pt containers of "baby crawlers" after visiting with BIL who went fishing and got me extra from the baits shop. ("Whatcha getting your SIL for Christmas?" ... "A couple of boxes of worms." ) He's promised to get me redworms (red wigglers) for my vermicomposter next time -- which may be today since he and DH went fishing for lake trout early this morning

Applestar-

Thanks for the detailed post. I will start practicing the finger soil test. Usually when I water the top is fairly dry. I have about 5 holes in the bottom about 7/8 in diameter each I think (if I remember correctly). I just figured the bottom layer was dry as well. I hear it drain after I get done watering.

I might start drilling holes in the sides like you mentioned. Of course that will have to wait until next year. I went ahead and picked off the tomatoes with BER and hoping that new fruit may turn out ok.

Not sure what else to do at this point...maybe adding some lime...I assume that is organic (trying to keep things as natural and organic as possible).

Thanks.....

[Juliuskitty]

Gardenfresh, I sent you a PM.

[applestar]

Quick update pics:

Sweet N Neat is looking good. I'll pick one or more fruits tomorrow:

Sweet N Neat pink

This Kootenai is going down, but the fruits can be saved:

Sorry looking Kootenai

[GardenFresh]

Gardenfresh, I sent you a PM.

Sorry for the late response...yes I got your PM and will reply when I get a chance....with the holidays and a 7 month old, time is def not on my side....LOL

Applestar-

Nice pics...I may need to drive up there and buy some tomatoes from you...mine are not looking to hot!

[rainbowgardener]

Applestar, just because I'm curious and I so admire what you are doing, why is the Kootenai going down, what is killing it? I looked back at the beginning of this thread and it was planted the beginning of Aug. That makes it 5 months old now. When I start tomatoes in Feb and grow them in the ground, they (usually) have no trouble producing until frost killed in Oct.

Is it disease? Is it the difference between growing in ground and growing in buckets (e.g. roots too crowded, using up the soil nutrients)? OR?

thanks for your reply and your awesome example!

[applestar]

Primarily, Kootenai is a determinate.
https://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Kootenai

But I did drown it -- probably at a critical juncture. It was sucking up water really fast with so many fruits to support, then one day all of a sudden it stopped, and I didn't realize it so that it sat soaking in water filled drip tray for over 36 hours.

For what this may indicate, the other plant that has been following parallel growth rate has been yellowing as well even though it doesn't have/has not produced as many fruits.

I'll have to go back and check my notes, but I think in the summer Winter Trial garden, Kootenai grew to be about 28" tall and produced smatterings of small fruits even after the first numerous lump mass production until something like late July/early August. It was exceedingly drought and shade tolerant even growing in the willow oak root zone, though it was not as flavorful as Manö. (I was also going to grow Manö this winter but the seeds failed at the very start).

[gixxerific]

nice to see you are still going Applestar. My plants are all gone they were taken down by the mysterous evil that took over. Now I think I have a mouse eating my drying seeds. I can't win for loosing.

Keep it going, won't be long till we shift gears for spring.

[applestar]

Cherokee Tiger Striped Plum is starting to color break

Cherokee Tiger Striped Plum

image.jpg (59.62 KiB) Viewed 3078 times

Another Coyote (?) almost ripe

Have been harvesting the Sweet n Neat as they ripen. Not really sweet like the summer harvest, but juicy and nice tangy good tomato flavor burst.

[Juliuskitty]

Cherokee Tiger Striped Plum is starting to color break

image.jpg

Another Coyote (?) almost ripe

image.jpg

Have been harvesting the Sweet n Neat as they ripen. Not really sweet like the summer harvest, but juicy and nice tangy good tomato flavor burst.

Very much looking forward to a photo of CTSP when it colors up.

[applestar]

Me too!

...also realized Cherokee Purple Variegated clone which had NO variegation when I brought it in this fall is starting to show a bit of variegation. So temp dependency may be involved?

not looking as good as it could be

[Juliuskitty]

Wow, interesting. Seems like variegation is showing up more and more. I have a variegated branch on my cherry roma plant. Someone on a different forum thinks it is a virus with an insect vector. I like the look though.

[applestar]

Cherry Roma? Is that seed grown and expressed variegation? Is it a determinate?

Here are update photos of CT Striped Plum and also CT Large Red

CTSP

CTLR

[gixxerific]

Amazing.

Nuff Said.

[Juliuskitty]

Cherry Roma? Is that seed grown and expressed variegation? Is it a determinate?

Here are update photos of CT Striped Plum and also CT Large Red

image.jpg

image.jpg

Yes, grown from seed. It is a regular leaf, indeterminate, red grape shaped cherry, open pollinated, DTM in my garden were in the 70s. PM me with your addy if you want some seeds.

[applestar]

PM sent. Thanks, Juliuskitty!

[applestar]

Just HAD to share this picture of the second ripening Cherokee Tiger Large Red

Cherokee Tiger Large Red behind the sofa

Jack'ss Yellow is finally starting to bloom at 40" above soil level in a 7" container. I buzzed them with the electric toothbrush and they generated a cloud of pollen so they should set fruit. But I think this variety is too tall and later maturing for ideal winter indoor grow. The flavor should be outstanding though, so it might be worth the effort if room to grow is available.

Jack'ss Yellow blossoms

[applestar]

Cherokee Tiger Striped Plum before harvesting:

Cherokee Tiger Striped Plum

image.jpg (47.32 KiB) Viewed 3324 times

Today's assortment
Cherokee Tiger Large Red
Cherokee Tiger Striped Plum ___ Kootenai
Sweet N Neat Pink

Note that the fruit sizes are small... But CTSP is growing in a 1/2 gal milk carton. CTLR is in a 3 gal container but it is behind the sofa -- an interior location 18" from the wall -- and is only getting light from a double CFL bulb utility light and what natural light (not direct sunlight) gets through from a window, one edge of which is about 18" to the side of it (18"x18" away from the side of the window) PAST the avocado, another tomato plant and a jasmine plant. Kootenai and SnN are growing in the double decker udon bowls.

I would say Sweet N Neat is true to its small cherry size, and Kootenai is maybe 75% of the true size.

[applestar]

Pit Vipers didn't want to grow for some reason. They STILL look like this and they were dropped in early October. I uppotted them today into these 4" pots to see if they will try to grow more.

[applestar]

Cherokee Tiger Large Red

[gixxerific]

nice pics but your killing me here smalls.

Though I do have 9 dwarfs all up just today, so it's on people.

[applestar]

Says you -- you'll be posting jungle pics of your own soon enough.

The Pit Vipers are feeling much better -- so weird that they didn't grow at all in that other container but was not exactly stunted or anything -- and have grown quite a bit. Now that they are growing more, you can definitely see they are dwarfs by the short internodes.

With any luck, these will be my first extra early harvests this growing season. The parent of these had green when ripe fruits with red bi-color flesh at blossom end and up the center. I believe it's still segregating so no guarantee that mine will fruit the same way, but one can hope.

Pit Viper

[applestar]

Here are first fruits on this Jackass Yellow -- at approx 4 feet above the soil level, growing in a 1 gallon container. It tried to bloom and set fruits a little earlier and lower to the ground on the vine but failed, probably due to the cold temp since it's sitting on the floor with the Cool Gang:

Jackass Yellow

...and some more Coyote:

Coyote

[GardenFresh]

Applestar-

Since we both are in similar zones (NJ and DE), when are you planning to start your outside tomato seedlings? I just started some cool crop early spring stuff in the beginning of Feb (broc, caul, lettuce, kale, etc).

[applestar]

I start sowing my main tomato seeds around end of February - beginning of March. Like last year, I'm going to start the slow to get going dwarfs and very late to mature varieties this week after sowing the peppers ("after Valentines Day" is how I schedule it)

I started and currently am starting the slow to germinate as well as the extra cold and cool temp hardy stuff right now as well. https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/vi ... 06#p323006