2013-14 WHO'LL BE GROWING WINTER TOMATOES INSIDE THIS YEAR?

[Northernfox]

I did read your post you must forgive me I have an 8 month old at home whom is having a lot of fun keeping me up at night!

your plants look great! you started them in August right? I got mine going in mid September so I am expecting a little bit of a delay!

I love the pictures keep them going! Enjoy the new iPad! I get my work iPhone 5 s I think in the next few days!

[GardenFresh]

applestar / rainbowgardener-

Any suggestions on what I can use for a good all around "organic" fertilizer for my winter indoor garden?

I was thinking about just picking up a bag of Espoma "Plant-Tone"......

Suggestions / Thoughts....

Thanks,
Michael

[Northernfox]

GardenFresh I just use a 2.2.2 liquid organic fertilizer. nothing to strong just easy food for them

[applestar]

I don't worry about it for the first couple of months since I use organic potting mix with compost and nutrients that tend to be slower releasing, the seedlings get uprooted as they grow, and in the cooler environment I think nutrient loss is slowed down as is the growth rate and usage by the plants.

You don't want to be too generous with fertilizing these plants because you want them to stay compact, and we don't have the luxury of exuberant growth.

I water with filtered or chlorine out-gassed water, and occasionally add used coffee grounds (UCG) as well as last dregs rinse out water for juice and milk cartons, soda bottles, etc. Once they are in their final size containers and the plants start fruiting, they need more water and I think would use up the soil nutrients faster, so I would probably start making AACT with the vermicompost and also weak "fertilizer tea" with tomato tone or dr! earth tomato fertilizer which will be added to the water every other watering or so.

[GardenFresh]

Northernfox-

Where do you buy this 2.2.2 liquid organic fertilizer from...local big box store or online?

applestar-

Yep, I understand I may not need it for a few months...just wanted to have something on hand in case they need it:)

[GardenFresh]

BTW, forgot to ask earlier....those that are currently growing winter veggies...what kind of light cycle are you currently on?

Right now I am doing about 16-18 hrs a day from about 4am to 10pm but was thinking about changing it to have the light on overnight since that is when it is the coldest...?

Thoughts on that or does it not really matter..?

Thanks.....

[Northernfox]

Garden,

it is a local product I use but I would assume you can find the same liquid fertilizer at any green house.

I have my garden growing inside and I have it on a 12 hour cycle which works best for me. I run the lights during the day as that is when my unregulated power is the cheapest When the seedlings were young I had mistakenly left my timer on the "on" mode which meant for the first month it was going for 24hours a day

[rainbowgardener]

I run mine about 16-18 hrs a day, from when I get up to when I go to bed. I think they do benefit from some rest period. If they are in front of a window, then if you have the lights on at night, they would never have a dark period. If they are not in front of a window, it probably doesn't matter when the lights are on.

[GardenFresh]

All-

Just thought of something else that has been on mind in ref to pollination. I read online that tomatoes are self pollinating plants because they have both male and female parts of the flower or something like that. It continued to say that you can help it along, even though not necessary, by using a fan or gently shaking the plant daily for indoor grown tomatoes.

I also read where folks have had a lot of issues with indoor tomatoes and pollination and fruit never developing. It was suggested that you should use a small paint brush or electronic toothbrush to stimulate the flower for pollination.

So which is it, will they pollinate by themselves or not.....I am confused on what I should do or buy to be prepared for developing fruit.

Thanks for your assistance.

[applestar]

I use an electric toothbrush. Tomatoes are different from the other flowers that have open blossom structure. The anthers are fused into a cone -- therefore called "anther cone" and when buzzed, pollen fall down en masse, helping to coat the pistil which is often INSIDE the cone. So there really no way to use a paintbrush or a cotton swab.

E. Toothbrush also works for peppers, and it seems to help pollen production in other flowers too, so I have been buzzing the flower trusses of the Meyer lemon before hand pollinating them.

I used to use a ($100) ultrasonic toothbrush, but am now using a Colgate electric 2 for $10 which seems to be working fine -- it buzzes/hums like a bee. To compare, I also bought a similarly priced CVs brand with a free replaceable brush head (about $10) and battery box, but that one is not as fine -- coarse and loud more like a power tool. If you end up getting a different brand, please post your reviews for comparison.

[Northernfox]

Well my Sweet N Neat are growing well and have started to flower



Not having a ton of time I planted directly and boy did it work !!

[youtudotbe]https://youtu.be/yhsd_Fv_qyM[/youtudotbe]

[ReptileAddiction]

I have a Brushpoint Oscillating Toothbrush. I use it outside when plants are covered etc though I usually try to pollinate most of the blossoms because I have noticed that it does help increase the percentage of blossoms that actually turn into fruit. It works great though and it is only 3.99 on amazon.

[staffeldt89]

I'm growing my tomatoes and peppers in my greenhouse this winter! I purchased a natural gas heater and had a professional hooked it up to my heater inside my house. We just had our first snowfall about a week ago here in Wisconsin and my temperatures stayed about 50 degrees with the heater on low. The other night with the wind chills it got down to -10 outside so I had to crank the heater up to medium and so far so good. I made a video about my heater if anybody else wants to try it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvSb9bXj2B0

Has anyone else tried this before?

[applestar]

One of the Kootenai fruits is starting to blush!

image.jpg (51.74 KiB) Viewed 1870 times

[rainbowgardener]

So staffeldt, what stage are your tomatoes and peppers in? Are they blooming? Setting fruit? I haven't done winter toms, but literature says they need temps at least 55 deg F to set fruit.

[GardenFresh]

All-

In reference to hand pollinating my tomatoes, I have a few more questions.

At what stage do you start assisting with pollinating the flower, when the yellow flower is completely open?

How many times or how often do you do the pollination, just once multiple times?

About how long until you know if your pollination efforts were successful?

I have several yellow flowers on my plants and have even used the e-brush once or twice by vibrating right behind the yellow flower part as I saw on an online video.

I will post a couple of recent pics when I get a chance.

Thanks......

[ReptileAddiction]

I start pollinating mine as soon as the blossom is open enough to get in there. I pollinate all the open flowers every day until they fall off and are replaced by the fruit. They usually end up getting buzzed a few times. It is usually a few days until you know whether it was successful or not. You know because the petals fall off and you can see the tiny fruit.

[Northernfox]

Wow those tomatoes look great! Mine are just flowering now!

[GardenFresh]

I start pollinating mine as soon as the blossom is open enough to get in there. I pollinate all the open flowers every day until they fall off and are replaced by the fruit. They usually end up getting buzzed a few times. It is usually a few days until you know whether it was successful or not. You know because the petals fall off and you can see the tiny fruit.

RA-

Thx for the feedback on pollination. I will include a pic below with black arrows indicating where I have been attempting to pollinate each flower (which is what was instructed on an online video)...Does this look correct?

[Northernfox]

I have a fan that rotates over my indoor garden area. I figure the wind blowing a few times a day will help keep disease down and should help pollination.

[applestar]

Those are the correct spots to touch with the electric toothbrush. When done at the proper time, you will see a fairly significant amount of pollen pouring out of the anther cone. You can see the pollen better in bright light or by holding a black plastic spoon under the flowers to catch the pollen. Some varieties will start releasing pollen as soon as the flower petals change color from green to yellow, even before the petals start to curl back.

I think I see better pollen release around mid day to late afternoon. In the summer time, I try to do this around mid-morning when dew has dried but before it gets too hot. Right now with the indoor winter tomatoes, I occasionally do this before misting in the morning if it's warm enough, but mostly mist in the morning, then wait until they are dry -- before or after lunch -- when temperature has warmed a little bit and more conducive to setting fruit, then often near sunset when I go around closing the curtains and blinds.

[GardenFresh]

Those are the correct spots to touch with the electric toothbrush. When done at the proper time, you will see a fairly significant amount of pollen pouring out of the anther cone. You can see the pollen better in bright light or by holding a black plastic spoon under the flowers to catch the pollen. Some varieties will start releasing pollen as soon as the flower petals change color from green to yellow, even before the petals start to curl back.

I think I see better pollen release around mid day to late afternoon. In the summer time, I try to do this around mid-morning when dew has dried but before it gets too hot. Right now with the indoor winter tomatoes, I occasionally do this before misting in the morning if it's warm enough, but mostly mist in the morning, then wait until they are dry -- before or after lunch -- when temperature has warmed a little bit and more conducive to setting fruit, then often near sunset when I go around closing the curtains and blinds.

AS-

Thx for the info and confirming that I am placing the e-toothbrush in the right spots for pollination. I was curious about how often I should be doing this and at what stage of the flower opening...I thought maybe you had to wait until the yellow flower was completely open for some reason. I have only pollinated once on each plant I believe...didn't know you had to do it multiple times. I did see the pollen float after touching one of the flowers because I did it while it was still under my lighting structure.

You mentioned about "misting" which I currently do not do. I just water them right now...wasn't aware that the plants needed misting?

I think I will try taking the e-toothbrush when I get home from work and trying it again on all flowers that are at least open a little.

[applestar]

You mentioned about "misting" which I currently do not do. I just water them right now...wasn't aware that the plants needed misting?

I have found that one of the most significant everyday environmental factors next to sufficient light is humidity.

During the warm months, every time I go outside at or shortly after dawn, everything is dripping with dew. Even in the midst of serious drought, the plants are covered with dew and the ground at the base of objects and drip lines of shrubs and trees are wet from excess moisture.

So when I bring plants in, I mist them until nearly or actually dripping every morning when I open the window coverings and turn the lights on. As the heat turns on more and more often and eventually nearly all the time, the humidity in the house will plummet from 60's eventually down to 40's and even occasionally to 30's in the dead of the winter. -- open invitation for indoor pests like spider mites. Even though misting doesn't raise the humidity permanently because it all dissipates so quickly, at least while they are being misted, the local humidity rises to near 90's. The plants also take in the moisture from the leaves and I believe their pores open up. The daily misting helps them to gradually adapt to the lower humidity.

I use filtered water in trigger and pump sprayers.

One year, I was in bad health and was unable to mist them daily. The plants visibly suffered and I was convinced. Even if you don't spray, it's important to closely inspect your plants 2 or 3 times a week at minimum.

[applestar]

Sweet N Neat is definitely a good variety for this, as is Kootenai.

It's 27 inches from the countertop to the light and these two are still on risers -- Kootenai on a blue bucket and Sweet n Neat on a black container with room to grow, AND I can raise the light higher.

If I had the room, I'd put them in larger containers, but they are doing pretty well despite the limited size.

[Northernfox]

Apple how can I swindle some kootenia from you

This year I hope to grow a bunch and find out when works well here and what my family likes !

[Northernfox]

Apple your tomatoes look great ! Are your grow lights just regular shop lights ?

[ReptileAddiction]

Looking great as always apple!

On the pollination issue, I literally put the toothbrush inside the blossom and vibrate it. I get a good burst and good fruit set so I assume that way works. I really do not think that it is as much where you buzz it as to that you actually buzz it. My line of thinking is that I am trying to replicate a bee and they go in to the blossom and buzz so to me that is the most logical place to do it. Though that is just my opinion and very possibly completely wrong.

[applestar]

You want be careful not to damage the style and stigma and some varieties have protruding stigma that extend outside of the anther cone....

This is the lighting for the Winter Wonderland pictured above and one of the shelves in the garage:
https://t.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Light ... /202968125

Thanks for the kind words --- Haha, you jumped in and posted before I could add these pictures to the post above

Two other Kootenai plants -- they are more productive but somewhat taller

This one is not as compact and is trying to push past the light

This one is somewhere in between

image.jpg (35.52 KiB) Viewed 2208 times

(I have - and will have - plenty of Kootenai seeds. I intend to save the seeds from the extra compact plant separately, though ultimately, the flavor might be the deciding factor.)

I'm really looking forward to these Cherokee Tiger Striped Plum fruits, but the plant is on the floor with the Cool Gang and it gets colder down there. Very slow to develop.

-- I have three (?) other plants but they are not fruiting yet, so this one gets a higher rating so far

[rainbowgardener]

I'm not doing tomatoes or other edibles indoors, but I do have a whole bunch of indoor plants, traditional house plants, large trees, coleus, geranium, rosemary and a bunch other stuff I bring in to over-winter. This year I have a moonflower vine I brought in among all the other stuff, just to see how it does. Everything benefits from being misted daily. As applestar notes, houses are very dry in winter.

I have seen the difference. One year in February, I got busy with all the little seedlings under grow lights in the basement and quit misting all the over-wintering stuff, that had been getting daily misting. Everything stopped growing, the angel trumpet that had been doing great, dropped all its leaves and went dormant, etc...

The misting (given that I'm not doing tomatoes etc), helps allow me to water very little, which is good because then I don't get fungus gnats or anything in the soil, since it dries out thoroughly between waterings.

[gixxerific]

Thanks for tip Gals, I will start misting mine. I have never done this before.

[ReptileAddiction]

I honestly don't know how you guys do not get sick of growing tomatoes. In my garden by the time I yank them I am so sick of them. Right about now I start to want to plant them again and by the time to plant them I can not wait. I would not be able to grow them all year long.

[applestar]

We -- or at least *I* am weak. Cannot take the deprivation until planting time -- seed starting for summer tomatoes isn't until mid Feb at earliest, and actual planting not until late April/early May.

...can't wait to take a pic of the ripening fruit and show you all. Looking good I can almost taste it.

[applestar]

...and tah dah! ...almost ready to pick -- a couple more days at most

First to ripen Kootenai

It's about 1" across viewed this way but it's actually elliptical and is more like 1-3/4" at widest. Once this is harvested, the larger fruit which is about 2" across at widest should color break and blush. In the garden at maximum growth (28-30" high) some Kootenai fruits got to be maybe 2-1/2" in diameter so there isn't a whole lot of fruit size reduction in the container so far, and this is still a very small plant.

[Northernfox]

I cant wait for mine to be ready!

[gixxerific]

Forgot to mention I have some ripe fruit as well. JA Yellow X Hippie Zebra F2 first ripe winter tomato. Pics to follow.

[applestar]

Cherokee Tiger Large Red update:

Biggest mega bloom fused fruit is currently about 1" across and growing....

[applestar]

1st to ripen red Kootenai with what should have been Coyote -- these turned out considerably darker yellow and larger than the summer fruits so maybe it was bee crossed -- Jaune Flammée was the only yellow nearby and that would have been the right color and could account for the increased size?
(2 Fish peppers and a small Jalapeño)

[rainbowgardener]

Beautiful! It is just amazing to me that you can grow all that indoors, in winter, without high intensity lights or any really fancy equipment.

I'm still not trying it. Pretty much all available window space is taken up with all my house plants and all the ornamentals that get over-wintered. That's even more true right now, because the best window space with an almost floor to ceiling picture window facing mostly west and 2 windows on the other wall of the corner, facing mostly south, is now taken up with the Christmas tree. All the plants and trees that were there have been relegated to other (less light) spaces.

I don't want to put anything under the lights in the basement, because in just about a month seed starting starts again. And I must say, I enjoy a little break from gardening in Nov/Dec while I do holiday stuff. Makes me more ready to start again...

[applestar]

Haha I *used* to have all those house plants... Somehow, over the years, they have been superseded by edibles or other + alpha. Truly non-producing/ornamental "house plants" I have left are 2 Chenille plants, a couple of orchids and African violets, and a Norfolk Island Pine... Oh and a Ficus elastica though that's technically an useful plant... Oh I have the poinsettia, Thanksgiving cactus and night blooming cereus too.... and a couple of zebra plant succulent that really doesn't produce anything... Oh and some stick/pencil cactus that I begged cuttings from my daughter's dentist to propagate... Maybe I have quite a few house plants still after all....

...I dunno... This is more fun --- and you get to eat them, too.

(Close up of prolific Sweet n Neat -- 1/2" small cherries
-- with 2nd to ripen Kootenai and more to follow)

[Juliuskitty]

Beautiful. Nice job!
My apologies ahead of time if you have already answered this, as I haven't read the whole thread, but that looks to be a dwarf growing with the rugose dark green foliage. What variety is it please? Just curious because this is my first year growing dwarfs, and they are impressive.