2013-14 WHO'LL BE GROWING WINTER TOMATOES INSIDE THIS YEAR?

[gixxerific]

Green mantis don't say you can't grow big ones. There are quite a few dwarfs that put on big fruit, even in containers. You are growing these inside, correct? Cherries can really get out of hand like a good 'ol Missouri crabgrass on steroids. Though with trimming they can be tamed.

Just don't count out dwarfs, if you are growing indoors that is the best choice bar none. Even in good conditions they may only get 2-4 feet. Indy's are another story, get it another story like 10 feet or more.

[Green Mantis]

gixxerific..........What kind of Dwarfs grow big tomatoes? Put it this way, no tomatoes would ever get totally

ripe around here. I love them not quite ripe, as soon as they are colouring up, they're in my mouth.

I could eat tomatoes everyday. Same with tomato soup. Yummy.

I guess I'd have to let some get ripe, or I wouldn't be able to get seeds.


gixx.....Do you just grow mainly tomatoes? You sure have lots of plants.

[6sparkpug6]

Gixx: yes they will be inside. It's too bad CT growing season is basically only summer for outside.


Wow apple that's quite a big container! Can't do that! I will have to rethink the plants I can bring in!

[6sparkpug6]

I guess I'd have to let some get ripe, or I wouldn't be able to get seeds.

I just have to hope the people in my family don't throw them all out! I had some saved and drying on a napkin today. There was the a leakage to our ice machine thing and next think you know I couldn't find my seeds.. Oh well there will be more on the way.

[applestar]

I want to concentrate on only advancing crosses.

That's great! More better varieties speeding our way -- can't wait to see them selected and stabilized and available on the market.

Cherokee Tiger SP -- red/green(orange?) striped saladette? plum
Rainbow Dwarf -- yellow pink bicolor size? Flattened
Shadow Boxing -- Antho shoulder red saladette? globe?
Utyonok (Little Duckling) -- yellow pointed cherry?

Utyonok is a saladette and in my eyes it's orange, did you get that description from Tat's? Shadow Boxing is striped with antho not solid red. Rainbow Dwarf is more of a white with clear skin and a blush on the bottom. Cherokee Tiger Stripe PLUM F6 is a plum. The Striped Plum looks and taste almost identical to Cherokee Tiger Black which is a saladette on a chartreuse plant.

Forgot to thank you for the descriptions. I've added them to my notes.

[applestar]

they're up and growing

[applestar]

...and here we are, almost time to bring them all inside...
These are the dwarfs. Some of them have septoria or blight and I may not be able to keep them, though I sprayed with peroxide, baking soda solution, then 40% milk solution for good measure.

Two smallest Kootenai that were left neglected under the lights. These are disease-free.

Rainbow Dwarf -- I really wanted to keep them, but they are hit pretty badly with septoria/blight.

(I actually shook most of the soil off and uppotted each of them in 1/2 gal milk cartons to bury the stems after taking this photo.)

Jack'ss Yellow seedlings have been very vigorous and I have at least 4 plants....

Cherokee Tiger Striped Plum:

Jack'ss Yellow...Cherokee Tiger Large Red
Sweet 'n' Neat...Cherokee Tiger Striped Plum...Kootenai

Non-dwarfs look like this:

Tigerella, Gajo de Melon, Jaune Flammeé, Kamatis Tagalog, Coyote

Snow White, Faelen's First Snow (no variegation so technically Cherokee Purple), Red House Free Standing, Jack'ss Yellow in the back corner.

I started 2 seeds each of Pit Viper and Sophie's Choice 3 days ago -- if they sprout, I'm keeping them
...yeah these are more than I have room for -- time to make some hard decisions though I may try giving some away....

[applestar]

I wasn't going to mention them, I might as well -- it might mean something....

Shadow Boxing and Utyonok were stunted for some reason. Maybe the dip into upper 30's a couple of times earlier in Sept? They got dried out while I was out of commission? Some oddball soil mix formulation in the container they were all planted together in?

...I was ready to cull them but decided to see how the roots were, and it turned out they had really well developed root systems nearly filling the container, so I separated and uppotted them into two containers and brought them inside under the lights. If they don't recover, THEN I'll toss these. I ran out of peroxide and baking soda solutions, but I drenched them with the 40% milk solution just for the heck of it.

Utyonok

-- I pinched the flowers off to give the "Little Ducky" a chance.

Shadow Boxing

-- though these are stunted and unhealthy, the purplish color in itself is "normal" since Shadow Boxing expresses antho in the stems and foliage. Gixx has a photo of a healthy Shadow Boxing at the end of this post.

[Northernfox]

At first I was not going to grow tomatoes in the house and then I fell in love with the Sweet N Neat dwarf I ha outside! So I took 4 fruit inside to plant. One I left hole and buried two I cut in half and left one upside down and the other upside right an the fourth I squeezed out into the soil.the squeezed one is doing great. I even transplanted some of them into another pot. They are small but doing well.

I am going to try to make pepper bushes as well

[applestar]

Looking good! I had STARTED more Sweet N Neat because I loved the tasty sweet pink mini cherries and I really like the way the plant stays small in a container, but the other seedlings didnt make it, so I only have one plant left. I had the idea that they would be good as started plants in 2 gal buckets for gifts since they won't outgrow the container.

Downside as gifts is that they were definitely determinate in my garden this summer (though determinate characteristic works out for winter growing if you will be needing the space under the lights later on at the end of winter/early spring for growing new season plants).

[PennyG]

Good luck with them all

[Northernfox]

That is what I thought about the sweet n neat! I also did not have enough time to seed save so I figured if I can get one ripe fruit I can replant it and start again for my 2014 outdoor garden!!

The parent plant was great! Compact and loaded with fruit! That said you are right one day there was an off switch. The plant nose dived

I hope they do well this year. I love messing around with new challenges

[applestar]

Both Sophie's Choice and one Pit Viper are up

...OK ALL FOUR seedlings have sprouted

[gixxerific]

Very good Apple, I have Pit Viper going as well. a few others but not many. I'm taking it easy this winter. I overdid it this summer and am paying the price.

All good I just a somewhat break so I can overdo it again next year, that's all.

[thomas.r.silverman]

I brought my two tomato plants indoor about a month ago (I live in London, getting very cold as you can imagine) I had started them late in the season, so they had only produced 3 tomatoes between the plants.

I was wondering what I may need to do now they are inside? They get light all day, but direct sun (when there is sun) only in the afternoon.

I am a complete beginner, these are my first plants!

Thomas.

[Green Mantis]

What do I do now???? I put tomato seeds in a jar with water to separate etc. Well they got left for a long time.

So one day I decided that they couldn't be any good, threw the water and seeds in my Prayer plant, that is on the kitchen counter. Well they all came up

They are getting a bit long now, do I put them in individual potting pots with potting soil? If so where?

In other words, "help" please.

[applestar]

I think what rainbowgardener posted here https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/vi ... 42#p316542 will help.

Post if you have specific questions about how you plan to set it up.

[rainbowgardener]

Love it! We have created a self-referential loop You referred to my post, which refers back to this thread


(However, there is other info intervening on both sides, I just thought it was funny )

[DoubleDogFarm]

Love it! We have created a self-referential loop You referred to my post, which refers back to this thread

Pinky linking.


Now where is Tomc

Eric

[applestar]

^^^


Here are some haphazard and incomplete (not every plant) update photos:

My most developed Kootenai:

Fastest Kootenai

Another Kootenai:

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Indeterminates - need to be uppotted

Coyote

[applestar]

Chartreuse foliage in the back ground are Cherokee Tiger Striped Plum. These plants are under two 24" 6500K T-5 tubes on top of the "Winter Paradise" described below. They are out in the open so they don't get the exta insulation and humidity like inside the enclosure.

Sweet n Neat in the middle

These two are still in the uninsulated, unheated, no window "Garage Seed Starting Area" equipped with a 2-tube and a 1-tube T-12 shoplight fixtures fitted with 6500K tubes -- low temp environment promotes stocky and sturdy growth. One on the left has flower buds:

Kootenai still in garage

These are still alive (also in the "Garage Seed Starting Area")

Utyonok and Shadowboxing

Even though Sophie's Choice only grows to 18-24" it doesn't have the dwarf gene. You can see the growth difference when compared to the true dwarf Pit Viper on the left. These are under the 24" 2-tube T-5 6500K's inside the "Winter Paradise" PVC covered plant shelves in front of the NW window where they are still getting the last rays of the setting sun, though in deep winter, the sun sets south of true West and will no longer reach this window. I'm not closing the front flaps yet, so the temperatures are no higher than room temp.

Pit Viper and Sophie's Choice seedlings

[applestar]

So, close up of the baby fruits so far:

The two Kootenai's (extra close up of the bigger fruit is attached two posts up) in "Winter Wonderland" which if you remember from last year is a surface 34"H above the floor equipped with a 4-tube T-8 light fixture and in front of a SE window with rising morning sun which reaches in pretty far (during the bare leaf winter -- right now the trees are still green so barely dappled sun). It's in the Family Rm so the lights stay on until everybody goes to bed.

Two Kootenai plants with baby fruits

image.jpg (41.81 KiB) Viewed 3014 times

Jaune Flammée (uppotted in 3 gal sq pot) -- only one in upstairs bedroom (so far). Last year, the tomatoes did better overall in the cooler downstairs rooms. The window faces SE and the sun clears the trees faster for the upstairs windows, but the tomato is necessarily on the right side (the bigger and smaller Mango trees occupy most of the left side of the window, and the middle is taken up by the Mandarin Orange) so doesn't get very much. I added an extra bulb to the clamp light so it may do better light wise (I.e. "better" production). I positioned it next to the H-19 Littleleaf Cucumber so I can compare their light requirements.

Jaune Flammée with baby fruit

This was the only Faelan's First Snow seedling to make it but unfortunately, it showed no variegation. So technically, it may be Cherokee Purple. Uppotted in 3 gal sq pot and placed with "Cool Gang on the Floor" which is also in the Family Rm. but in a secluded corner farthest from the central thermostat and coldest zone. SW window provides some sunlight and is supplemented by a 2 tube T-12 shoplight positioned vertically and a Y-splitter equipped clamp light with double CFL bulbs as well as some overflow light from "Winter Wonderland".

Faelan's First Snow (no variegation = Cherokee Purple?)

These are two Kamatis Tagalog uppotted in a 3 gal sq pot. I may yet cull one but both have tiny fruits. "Cool Gang on the Floor"

Two Kamatis Tagalog

You saw this before but for sake of complete grouping, Coyote. Originally in a Turkey Hill ice cream tub, it has been "uppotted" with a second tier of bottomless ice cream tub topped with new potting mix. Each tub is 1.5 qts. The container is technically among the "Cool Gang on the Floor" but is sitting on top of the soil in a 4 gal tub for my biggest Avocado tree. So it's 9-10" above the floor level (but I don't think will create a significant thermal difference -- it will probably grow taller and reach the warmer thermal layer though.). I intend to use the tree as support and allow the roots to extend into the avocado container.

Coyote with baby fruits

No visible fruit set yet and in fact dropped their first floral truss, but are blooming again are: Jack'ss Yellow, Rainbow Dwarf, and Cherokee Tiger Striped Plum. Cherokee Tiger Large Red may have set fruit on the first truss. Some or all of them plus Redhouse Freestanding have dropped their first truss and haven't bloomed again yet, and the two Kootenai in the garage as well as a Snow White clone and an unID'd PL (midlabeled as Coyote) are barely growing their first floral truss. (These super slow clones may have an unknown disease/virus and may need to be culled.)

Part of the blossom drop is my fault because I somehow lost the electric toothbrush and have not jumped to go get a new one, so the blossoms are not getting thoroughly buzzed and are only getting finger flicked.

*This may be an indication that electric toothbrush is a NECESSARY tool for the job*

[rainbowgardener]

You are amazing! They are looking great. I love the garage grown ones. People laugh at me, how early I put my tomatoes out, but they are hardier than we think.

Until you and gixx started posting about winter tomatoes, I used to tell people here that it couldn't be done to get tomatoes to fruit indoors without high intensity lighting. I was mostly wrong, but I still think it isn't something beginners should take on. You make it work because you are so good at caring for them, looking at them and knowing what they need, etc. And you have done all this research and experimentation to know what varieties work best under low light indoor conditions.

[applestar]

Thanks! Hopefully, as I muddle on, a basic list of equipment needed, simple set of techniques, and a reliable list of tasty, early, relatively foolproof for winter indoor growing tomato varieties will emerge so the process will be less daunting as a project. (Realize that right now, I'm putting them through their paces in different and sometimes inadequate conditions and giving them anywhere from devoted to haphazard care. This year, all of them that were growing as seedlings outside came in with signs of diseases -- I believe septoria and early blight)

Those garage Kootenai started pushing against the highest raised lights, so I decided to move them inside after "up potting." With these, since they were growing so compactly, I removed their bottoms and stacked them on a second container filled with well draining fresh potting mix. they are now atop the "Winter Paradise":

"Uppotted" Kootenai

Blooming Kootenai. Look at the color contrast with the chartreuse foliage of Cherokee Tiger Large Red (there is a regular tomato leaf colored Sweet N Neat leaf tip to the left for comparison. The beat up fuzzy leaf in the right front is an eggplant. )

Cool temp raised dark green foliage Kootenai with bloom and chartreuse lanky Cherokee Tiger Large Red

Sweet N Neat also uppotted -- due to having had to prune off spotted lower leaves and side shoots, it was lanky so a bottomless 2nd container was placed on top and filled with fresh potting mix (otherwise, it should have looked more like the Kootenai)

"uppotted" Sweet N Neat

[Northernfox]

Looks Great!!! I have to up pot mine

[Bobberman]

I put tomato plants that I started late this in my solar greenhouse and they are taking nice so far. I have about 10!

[gixxerific]

[applestar]

I went and bought a pair of electric toothbrushes yesterday (about $10) -- I really missed the sight of the pollen shooting out of the tomato blossoms! (is that odd? )

I promise you, it's very reassuring.

Of course I'm also using them on pepper blossoms and I noticed more pollen-fall when I tried it on tea plant blossoms, too.

Gixx, I love that striped fruit!
Bobberman, are you able to post photos yet?
Northernfox, let's see what you got.

[gixxerific]

Applestar that striped fruit is JA Yellow X Hippie Zebra F2. I have Pit Viper going as well that is all for now. I am taking it easy for now. I may drop a few more, Streak Legal Black for one maybe some of the smaller dwarfs as well like Yellow Dwarf.

[applestar]

Be sure to post pics when that one ripens please
F2 means long way to go huh? Looks like a good start


Kootenai is definitely living up to expectations for productivity, earliness, short/small container growing, and starting to setting fruits low.
Here are a couple of examples:

(Winter Wonderland)

Kootenai with multiple green fruits

(Top of Winter Paradise -- one of garage Kootenai)

Kootenai with multiple blooms

Still waiting to find out about fruit size and flavor.

Sweet N Neat -- which was actually my hopeful -- is just starting to develop flower buds, so definitely later than Kootenai:

Sweet N Neat starting to produce flower buds

So happy Shadow Boxing and Utyonok are still growing. The 2nd tiny Shadow Boxing is still trying to come back

Shadow Boxing and Utyonok

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[gixxerific]

Nice Apple I wish my plants looked that good.

That Shadow Boxing is coming in Dark, me likey.

[GardenFresh]

I am going to try and grow tomatoes (and some other things) inside this year. I attempted to convert a framed bathroom in my basement, that will not be completed anytime soon, into a mini greenhouse. Not sure if its going to work but figured I give it a shot. The T-5 lamp puts out some light / heat and it is averaging about 83 degrees and about 30-40 humidity. So we shall see.....Let me know what you think and any feedback would be greatly appreciated as well:)

[applestar]

Looks like a good start and a fun winter project

Since your lights are T-5's, start by lowering your lights to about 3-4 inches above the foliage of the bucket plants. (Don't let them get closer than 1 in). T-8's need to be closer 2-3 in. (Don't allow to touch for more than a few hours). And T-12 need to be 1-2 in. (Can touch without getting scorched).

What I do with little pots like the one you have to bring them up to the light is to put them on the soil of the larger containers. You'll have room enough until the big plants outgrow or grow a dense canopy. If the little plants are still too short, just put upside down containers under them to get them up higher. Your main objective as they grow will be to keep all the tops of the plants at the same level and distance away from the light by raising or lowering the lights or the plants. It's a bit like musical chairs.

The little containers will dry out faster so keep checking them by hefting and feeling their weight or by feeling the surface of the soil.

Here's an example under a t-8 fixture

These are under a t-5 fixture

[GardenFresh]

Applestar-

Thanks for the feedback...I will lower the light when I get home. I figured the light distance was decent because the temps were good...as you can see in the pic I have a little thermometer / humidity gauge on top of the buckets. But I will lower to 3-4 inches above the foliage as you stated (you are more experienced at this than me:)

Also, I will place as many as the little containers in the buckets as I can fit until the maters grow bigger. Then I will find something (addt'l buckets and a board prob) to bring the rest of to similar height.

So with all that being said...do you think I have a decent shot of growing / producing fruit over the winter?

Thanks....

[applestar]

To be honest, I think 83° is a little hot until they start blooming. My house is kept above 65°f but downstairs in the coldest winter months will get down in the 50's at night when the thermostat is turned down.

Tomatoes grow well and more compactly in the 50's/60's as seedlings and with good fruit set in the 70's.

Admittedly my house environment is a little on the cold side for fruit development. Last year, they all took off after worst of the winter was over and things warmed up a little -- I remember thinking "Ah, they WERE cold."

I think you will need to watch that they don't shoot up too quickly in the limited space. Be sure to give them as much light as you can. On the other hand, yours will probably grow more quickly to maturity and bloom better with sufficient light. If not too hot to set fruit, they should develop with fuller flavor.

It will be a good idea to get an oscillating fan to run on a timer for several short durations. That will help to cool them down and to strengthen the possibly weaker growth from growing quickly in an enclosed environment. I don't use a fan, but there is good air movement and the day/night fluctuating temp also provides some cellular stress.

It's early since the heat was turned on so we still have upper 50's% RH in the house, but I still mist them all thoroughly every morning. When misted, the RH temporarily increases to the 90's but dissipates in a few hours. Later on in the season, the heat will drive the RH down to 40's and even lower, but the change is gradual and the plants will adjust to the daily morning high humidity then dry air for the rest of the day. I believe this cycle also helps to toughen up the "skin" of the foliage.

[rainbowgardener]

Yup, I thought the same thing as soon as I looked at the picture - the light is too high above the plants. Any amount of light you can give your plants is so much less than sunlight that you have to really work to compensate, by having the light right down next to them and by having it on for 16 hrs a day.

Perhaps you can rig up a little shelf next to the buckets for all the little pots?

If you up pot into bigger containers, I would use plastic, not the peat ones. In my experience, those can be seedling killers. Hold too much water for a long time, keeping everything too wet and then finally dry out and suck all the water away from your plant.

[applestar]

Couldn't resist posting these pics too...

These Coyote's are at their full (small cherry) size so I suppose they will be ready first?

[GardenFresh]

applestar-

I moved my tomatoes closer to the light as you directed yesterday. I also moved the smaller containers closer to the light using some addt'l buckets / board I had laying around.

[rainbowgardener]

Looking good! Since the little ones on the shelf are farther away to the side, they may start leaning towards the light. In that case, you can just keep rotating them frequently. I do 1/4 turn twice a day (not morning and night, morning and half way through their 16 hr day).

[GardenFresh]

Looking good! Since the little ones on the shelf are farther away to the side, they may start leaning towards the light. In that case, you can just keep rotating them frequently. I do 1/4 turn twice a day (not morning and night, morning and half way through their 16 hr day).

Thanks for the feedback...and will do!

I hope I can actually get fruit to come on at some point:)