HelpfulGardener.com

I'm sorry I'm so disorganized. I had hoped to post a fully thought out conclusion from my Winter Indoor Tomato Trial and maybe even offer to share seeds by mid July. But so far, all I've accomplished is to post my preliminary findings.

From last year's experiment for which I started the seeds at beginning of September, several of us concluded that we would want to start the seeds by beginning of August to have ripe fruits by Christmas (mid to end of December).

So I'm gong to start at least some of them -- probably too many -- and figure out later what will come inside and what can't.

I have seeds drying but have not organized or inventoried them yet. But if anyone is interested, PM me and I'll see what I can do. I don't think I can send any more than 1/2 doz seeds per variety per person right now, though I should have more seeds later, after processing the fruits in the kitchen and freezer.

If you have your own selection of tomato varieties to try growing this winter, I'd like to hear about it. Let's all keep each other updated and compare notes.

I am very interested in doing winter tomatoes. No experience in it though

I'd prefer to do a nice dwarf cherry or grape tomato. Ill have to look into your primary findings to find a type

I did not know u could so that!

I didn't know you could do that either, without high intensity lighting etc., until applestar and gixx proved otherwise. I'm sure I've told people in the past that it isn't possible.

Nonetheless, it isn't exactly easy. I'm not convinced enough to try it yet, sorry! Don't have south facing windows, the window space and lighting I do have is used up by all the trees and houseplants and stuff I bring in for the winter. Just not feeling manageable to me, though I admire you folks that are doing it.

Admittedly I have not read all of the great into provided but I might try micro toms or something sound like a good place to start?

I do not plan on growing any inside this winter but I do plan on growing some outside. My outdoor conditions will probably be pretty similar to your indoor ones though.

Northern Fox.......I think I would like to try some tiny tomatoes I saved seeds from.

It would be really nice to have winter tomatoes that actually taste like tomatoes.

I have a tomato plant on the porch, a friend gave me, just tiny tomatoes, but they don't even get a chance to

get ripe, everytime I see one getting sort of red, it's in my mouth. Yummy. Nobody else in the house is a

tomato fanatic like me here, I could eat them everyday, lots of them.

Hopefully applestar will give us great instructions.

Well, I said to myself, "If you don't start growing them, you'll regret not starting the seeds."

So, yesterday, I started seeds for:

Manö -- red saladette globe
Kootenai -- red saladette globe
Sweet n Neat -- pink cherry globe
Coyote -- ivory/butter yellow small cherry globe
Kamatis Tagalog -- clear epi red flesh saladettes to salad lobed flattened
Gajo de Melon -- ivory/butter yellow striped pink bicolor saladette globe
Jaune Flammeé -- dark yellow dark pink bicolor saladette to salad blocky globe
Tigerella -- red/green(orange) striped red flesh saladette globe

Today, I started seeds for (I need to research full descriptions for these)

Cherokee Tiger SP -- red/green(orange?) striped saladette? plum
Rainbow Dwarf -- yellow pink bicolor size? Flattened
Shadow Boxing -- Antho shoulder red saladette? globe?
Utyonok (Little Duckling) -- yellow pointed cherry?

I have a few more that I want to start seeds for tomorrow. These will be pink or dark, large fruited, productive great flavor varieties that I might want to sacrifice size for.



Do I really have room to grow all these inside this winter? -- absolutely not. But I WILL have a selection of plants to choose from and won't be saying, "If ony I had started some seeds back then...."

applestar.....Would it be too early for me to plant a few tomato plants now? Would I need to grow them

under lights? I'm just going for grape size tomatoes or a bit bigger. Thanks.

I don't think it is too early, All tomatoes need a certain amount of time to grow and mature to fruiting size. Last year, I felt like waiting until January for ripe fruits was too long since they had been growing inside since mid-Octoberor so. (Part of the reason I'm "announcing" what I'm doing is to alert you all to get started with this project if you had thought about doing it last winter. )

What I'm going to do is start them inside (in the garage) until they start sprouting so I can keep an eye on them. If I feel like I can go out to check them regularly (I.e. twice a day), I'll put them outside on the patio table or something. Otherwise (and more likely), I'll probably just turn on one of my seed starting area lights in the garage. I think they need to be babied until true leaves grow and they are Uppotted.

Here, it will continue to be hot during August and early September, so I would keep them in part shade (shaded from noonday sun) and try to uppot to their final size containers without letting them outgrow their initial smaller containers and stressing them. I won't bring them inside until temps fall below mid-50's. I may (or may not) bring them in and out while temperatures stay warm during the day. Doing this worked well last year. It would help to acclimate them to the indoor conditions especially since I would then be keeping them on the patio which a sheltered area that only gets mid day sun.

While they are out there, think about where you can put your plants in the house. Ideally, put them in a sunny window and provide supplemental light. Take a look at/review my last winter's thread I linked above. I described about several different lighting methods I used and posted photos.

One step ahead of you Apple. Dropped these on July 27th. They are new crosses that need work. One is an F2 we are trying to capture the dwarf.

I will be doing basically what you stated. Starting inside and bringing them out till the last possible moment than bringing them in for the winter. I will probably even put a few in the garden to see if they can produce before frost. I won't be growing as many this year (yeah right ). I want to concentrate on only advancing crosses.

Cherokee Tiger SP -- red/green(orange?) striped saladette? plum
Rainbow Dwarf -- yellow pink bicolor size? Flattened
Shadow Boxing -- Antho shoulder red saladette? globe?
Utyonok (Little Duckling) -- yellow pointed cherry?

Utyonok is a saladette and in my eyes it's orange, did you get that description from Tat's? Shadow Boxing is striped with antho not solid red. Rainbow Dwarf is more of a white with clear skin and a blush on the bottom. Cherokee Tiger Stripe PLUM F6 is a plum. The Striped Plum looks and taste almost identical to Cherokee Tiger Black which is a saladette on a chartreuse plant.

I had a plan to plant tomato seeds first day of August but I missed my deadline too. I have a lot of tomato seeds saved so I don't really need any.

I learned a cool trick. I pick a tomato from the garden then save a few seeds when I slice the tomato. Wash the seeds in a tea strainer in water then plant them directly in the garden soil. I will have 2 inch tall plants in about 2 days. I will have tomatoes in about 65 days.

I worked on cleaning my garden yesterday to start a new winter garden. I am going plant every thing directly in the garden and hope for the best. Cold weather might kill it in Jan of Feb no big deal I can plant a new garden again in March. Maybe temperature won't get below freezing this year.

applestar...... What kind of soil and fertilizer do you use?

If I only wanted about 6 tomato plants, could I just plant them in a bigger pot right away?

Then up size them later?

I'm so excited to hear about your indoor plants apple! I read all about you adventure last year and I was hoping I could find something on it this year! I have some black krim, Roma, and another variety that is something like zebra. I started these seeds awhile ago (maybe a month or month and a half) and I never transplanted them. So, they aren't that big. Got some more pots and soil at agway today! So I reported about 5. I also did that to my super sauce! I hope it produces! Maybe it's too late but it's worth a try.

Do you think a super sauce would be too big to bring indoors? Do the smaller tomatoes tend to do better or does it not really matter if space is not an issue (it kind of is but I have flexibility).

Also, would it be bad to not use a light? And just try to keep it by the sun indoors (maybe taking it out for a play date every once in awhile when the weather is nice)?


Thanks!

When I mix my own container soil, I mix about 2:2:1 topsoil:compost:sand and add some lime, greensand, rock phosphate, alfalfa pellets... Some shredded composted mulch.

This year, I'm physically unable to do the extra work, so I have been using commercial mixes plus some extras -- Dr. Earth Pot of Gold premium potting mix, sand, perlite, pumice gravel, shredded coir, shredded sphagnum, Dr. Earth or Espoma fertilizers....

I have been told that cherry and smaller fruits tomatoes will not suffer reduction in fruit size from being grown in containers as long as they re big enough. -- Ideally 3 gal or more but mostly 2 gal buckets is what I'm going for. People who can should probably aim for 5 gal buckets. Storage totes will work too, though I'm personally a bit concerned about food-safe plastic containers....

Unless you can bring in a 10-15 gal container you probably don't want to try to grow larger indeterminate varieties.

You do need sufficient light and supplemental light for the sides away from the window and for lower foliage which is shaded as they grow.

applestar......Thank you, I would only be growing cherry type tomatoes. Don't have room for the big ones.

I would love to have a greenhouse or sunroom, where I could grow them all winter.

The weather is so awful here, that you really can't grow much.

Especially this year, have had nothing but thunderstorms almost everyday.

Plus high winds and often hail.

Green mantis don't say you can't grow big ones. There are quite a few dwarfs that put on big fruit, even in containers. You are growing these inside, correct? Cherries can really get out of hand like a good 'ol Missouri crabgrass on steroids. Though with trimming they can be tamed.

Just don't count out dwarfs, if you are growing indoors that is the best choice bar none. Even in good conditions they may only get 2-4 feet. Indy's are another story, get it another story like 10 feet or more.

gixxerific..........What kind of Dwarfs grow big tomatoes? Put it this way, no tomatoes would ever get totally

ripe around here. I love them not quite ripe, as soon as they are colouring up, they're in my mouth.

I could eat tomatoes everyday. Same with tomato soup. Yummy.

I guess I'd have to let some get ripe, or I wouldn't be able to get seeds.


gixx.....Do you just grow mainly tomatoes? You sure have lots of plants.

Gixx: yes they will be inside. It's too bad CT growing season is basically only summer for outside.


Wow apple that's quite a big container! Can't do that! I will have to rethink the plants I can bring in!

Green Mantis wrote:
I guess I'd have to let some get ripe, or I wouldn't be able to get seeds.

I just have to hope the people in my family don't throw them all out! I had some saved and drying on a napkin today. There was the a leakage to our ice machine thing and next think you know I couldn't find my seeds.. Oh well there will be more on the way.

gixxerific wrote:I want to concentrate on only advancing crosses.

That's great! More better varieties speeding our way -- can't wait to see them selected and stabilized and available on the market.

gixxerific wrote:Cherokee Tiger SP -- red/green(orange?) striped saladette? plum
Rainbow Dwarf -- yellow pink bicolor size? Flattened
Shadow Boxing -- Antho shoulder red saladette? globe?
Utyonok (Little Duckling) -- yellow pointed cherry?

Utyonok is a saladette and in my eyes it's orange, did you get that description from Tat's? Shadow Boxing is striped with antho not solid red. Rainbow Dwarf is more of a white with clear skin and a blush on the bottom. Cherokee Tiger Stripe PLUM F6 is a plum. The Striped Plum looks and taste almost identical to Cherokee Tiger Black which is a saladette on a chartreuse plant.

Forgot to thank you for the descriptions. I've added them to my notes.

they're up and growing

...and here we are, almost time to bring them all inside...
These are the dwarfs. Some of them have septoria or blight and I may not be able to keep them, though I sprayed with peroxide, baking soda solution, then 40% milk solution for good measure.

Two smallest Kootenai that were left neglected under the lights. These are disease-free. Rainbow Dwarf -- I really wanted to keep them, but they are hit pretty badly with septoria/blight. (I actually shook most of the soil off and uppotted each of them in 1/2 gal milk cartons to bury the stems after taking this photo.)

Jack'ss Yellow seedlings have been very vigorous and I have at least 4 plants.... Cherokee Tiger Striped Plum: Jack'ss Yellow...Cherokee Tiger Large Red
Sweet 'n' Neat...Cherokee Tiger Striped Plum...Kootenai Non-dwarfs look like this:

Tigerella, Gajo de Melon, Jaune Flammeé, Kamatis Tagalog, Coyote Snow White, Faelen's First Snow (no variegation so technically Cherokee Purple), Red House Free Standing, Jack'ss Yellow in the back corner. I started 2 seeds each of Pit Viper and Sophie's Choice 3 days ago -- if they sprout, I'm keeping them
...yeah these are more than I have room for -- time to make some hard decisions though I may try giving some away....

I wasn't going to mention them, I might as well -- it might mean something....

Shadow Boxing and Utyonok were stunted for some reason. Maybe the dip into upper 30's a couple of times earlier in Sept? They got dried out while I was out of commission? Some oddball soil mix formulation in the container they were all planted together in?

...I was ready to cull them but decided to see how the roots were, and it turned out they had really well developed root systems nearly filling the container, so I separated and uppotted them into two containers and brought them inside under the lights. If they don't recover, THEN I'll toss these. I ran out of peroxide and baking soda solutions, but I drenched them with the 40% milk solution just for the heck of it.
-- I pinched the flowers off to give the "Little Ducky" a chance. -- though these are stunted and unhealthy, the purplish color in itself is "normal" since Shadow Boxing expresses antho in the stems and foliage. Gixx has a photo of a healthy Shadow Boxing at the end of this post.

At first I was not going to grow tomatoes in the house and then I fell in love with the Sweet N Neat dwarf I ha outside! So I took 4 fruit inside to plant. One I left hole and buried two I cut in half and left one upside down and the other upside right an the fourth I squeezed out into the soil.the squeezed one is doing great. I even transplanted some of them into another pot. They are small but doing well.

I am going to try to make pepper bushes as well

Looking good! I had STARTED more Sweet N Neat because I loved the tasty sweet pink mini cherries and I really like the way the plant stays small in a container, but the other seedlings didnt make it, so I only have one plant left. I had the idea that they would be good as started plants in 2 gal buckets for gifts since they won't outgrow the container.

Downside as gifts is that they were definitely determinate in my garden this summer (though determinate characteristic works out for winter growing if you will be needing the space under the lights later on at the end of winter/early spring for growing new season plants).

Good luck with them all

That is what I thought about the sweet n neat! I also did not have enough time to seed save so I figured if I can get one ripe fruit I can replant it and start again for my 2014 outdoor garden!!

The parent plant was great! Compact and loaded with fruit! That said you are right one day there was an off switch. The plant nose dived

I hope they do well this year. I love messing around with new challenges

Both Sophie's Choice and one Pit Viper are up

...OK ALL FOUR seedlings have sprouted

Very good Apple, I have Pit Viper going as well. a few others but not many. I'm taking it easy this winter. I overdid it this summer and am paying the price.

All good I just a somewhat break so I can overdo it again next year, that's all.

I brought my two tomato plants indoor about a month ago (I live in London, getting very cold as you can imagine) I had started them late in the season, so they had only produced 3 tomatoes between the plants.

I was wondering what I may need to do now they are inside? They get light all day, but direct sun (when there is sun) only in the afternoon.

I am a complete beginner, these are my first plants!

Thomas.

What do I do now???? I put tomato seeds in a jar with water to separate etc. Well they got left for a long time.

So one day I decided that they couldn't be any good, threw the water and seeds in my Prayer plant, that is on the kitchen counter. Well they all came up

They are getting a bit long now, do I put them in individual potting pots with potting soil? If so where?

In other words, "help" please.

I think what rainbowgardener posted here https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/vi ... 42#p316542 will help.

Post if you have specific questions about how you plan to set it up.

Love it! We have created a self-referential loop You referred to my post, which refers back to this thread


(However, there is other info intervening on both sides, I just thought it was funny )

Love it! We have created a self-referential loop You referred to my post, which refers back to this thread

Pinky linking.


Now where is Tomc

Eric

^^^


Here are some haphazard and incomplete (not every plant) update photos:

My most developed Kootenai: Another Kootenai:

Chartreuse foliage in the back ground are Cherokee Tiger Striped Plum. These plants are under two 24" 6500K T-5 tubes on top of the "Winter Paradise" described below. They are out in the open so they don't get the exta insulation and humidity like inside the enclosure. These two are still in the uninsulated, unheated, no window "Garage Seed Starting Area" equipped with a 2-tube and a 1-tube T-12 shoplight fixtures fitted with 6500K tubes -- low temp environment promotes stocky and sturdy growth. One on the left has flower buds: These are still alive (also in the "Garage Seed Starting Area") Even though Sophie's Choice only grows to 18-24" it doesn't have the dwarf gene. You can see the growth difference when compared to the true dwarf Pit Viper on the left. These are under the 24" 2-tube T-5 6500K's inside the "Winter Paradise" PVC covered plant shelves in front of the NW window where they are still getting the last rays of the setting sun, though in deep winter, the sun sets south of true West and will no longer reach this window. I'm not closing the front flaps yet, so the temperatures are no higher than room temp.

So, close up of the baby fruits so far:

The two Kootenai's (extra close up of the bigger fruit is attached two posts up) in "Winter Wonderland" which if you remember from last year is a surface 34"H above the floor equipped with a 4-tube T-8 light fixture and in front of a SE window with rising morning sun which reaches in pretty far (during the bare leaf winter -- right now the trees are still green so barely dappled sun). It's in the Family Rm so the lights stay on until everybody goes to bed. Jaune Flammée (uppotted in 3 gal sq pot) -- only one in upstairs bedroom (so far). Last year, the tomatoes did better overall in the cooler downstairs rooms. The window faces SE and the sun clears the trees faster for the upstairs windows, but the tomato is necessarily on the right side (the bigger and smaller Mango trees occupy most of the left side of the window, and the middle is taken up by the Mandarin Orange) so doesn't get very much. I added an extra bulb to the clamp light so it may do better light wise (I.e. "better" production). I positioned it next to the H-19 Littleleaf Cucumber so I can compare their light requirements. This was the only Faelan's First Snow seedling to make it but unfortunately, it showed no variegation. So technically, it may be Cherokee Purple. Uppotted in 3 gal sq pot and placed with "Cool Gang on the Floor" which is also in the Family Rm. but in a secluded corner farthest from the central thermostat and coldest zone. SW window provides some sunlight and is supplemented by a 2 tube T-12 shoplight positioned vertically and a Y-splitter equipped clamp light with double CFL bulbs as well as some overflow light from "Winter Wonderland". These are two Kamatis Tagalog uppotted in a 3 gal sq pot. I may yet cull one but both have tiny fruits. "Cool Gang on the Floor" You saw this before but for sake of complete grouping, Coyote. Originally in a Turkey Hill ice cream tub, it has been "uppotted" with a second tier of bottomless ice cream tub topped with new potting mix. Each tub is 1.5 qts. The container is technically among the "Cool Gang on the Floor" but is sitting on top of the soil in a 4 gal tub for my biggest Avocado tree. So it's 9-10" above the floor level (but I don't think will create a significant thermal difference -- it will probably grow taller and reach the warmer thermal layer though.). I intend to use the tree as support and allow the roots to extend into the avocado container. No visible fruit set yet and in fact dropped their first floral truss, but are blooming again are: Jack'ss Yellow, Rainbow Dwarf, and Cherokee Tiger Striped Plum. Cherokee Tiger Large Red may have set fruit on the first truss. Some or all of them plus Redhouse Freestanding have dropped their first truss and haven't bloomed again yet, and the two Kootenai in the garage as well as a Snow White clone and an unID'd PL (midlabeled as Coyote) are barely growing their first floral truss. (These super slow clones may have an unknown disease/virus and may need to be culled.)

Part of the blossom drop is my fault because I somehow lost the electric toothbrush and have not jumped to go get a new one, so the blossoms are not getting thoroughly buzzed and are only getting finger flicked.

*This may be an indication that electric toothbrush is a NECESSARY tool for the job*

You are amazing! They are looking great. I love the garage grown ones. People laugh at me, how early I put my tomatoes out, but they are hardier than we think.

Until you and gixx started posting about winter tomatoes, I used to tell people here that it couldn't be done to get tomatoes to fruit indoors without high intensity lighting. I was mostly wrong, but I still think it isn't something beginners should take on. You make it work because you are so good at caring for them, looking at them and knowing what they need, etc. And you have done all this research and experimentation to know what varieties work best under low light indoor conditions.

Thanks! Hopefully, as I muddle on, a basic list of equipment needed, simple set of techniques, and a reliable list of tasty, early, relatively foolproof for winter indoor growing tomato varieties will emerge so the process will be less daunting as a project. (Realize that right now, I'm putting them through their paces in different and sometimes inadequate conditions and giving them anywhere from devoted to haphazard care. This year, all of them that were growing as seedlings outside came in with signs of diseases -- I believe septoria and early blight)

Those garage Kootenai started pushing against the highest raised lights, so I decided to move them inside after "up potting." With these, since they were growing so compactly, I removed their bottoms and stacked them on a second container filled with well draining fresh potting mix. they are now atop the "Winter Paradise": Blooming Kootenai. Look at the color contrast with the chartreuse foliage of Cherokee Tiger Large Red (there is a regular tomato leaf colored Sweet N Neat leaf tip to the left for comparison. The beat up fuzzy leaf in the right front is an eggplant. ) Sweet N Neat also uppotted -- due to having had to prune off spotted lower leaves and side shoots, it was lanky so a bottomless 2nd container was placed on top and filled with fresh potting mix (otherwise, it should have looked more like the Kootenai)

Looks Great!!! I have to up pot mine