confused about tomato supports

[madonnaswimmer]

I have poked through the sticky on tomato supports and I am still confused. My grandparents, my in-laws, and anyone I ever knew who grew tomatoes always used tomato cages and never had problems-- so this is new to me. Matter of fact, I have never seen a tomato plant get above 4 feet, either grown by family or neighbors or anyone around here-- yet you all talk about tomato plants over 6 feet.... Will tomatoes never get that tall in Wisconsin?

I understand the concrete reinforcing wire because the concept is similar to the tomato cages: wire supports that the branches rest on, a few inches away from the main stem. As the plant grows, the branches move vertically, so you poke the branches back inside so that they don't bend downward and break as the plant gets taller.

What I DON'T understand is the horizontal string tied between two stakes
https://www.flickr.com/photos/51251503@N ... 4247441049
https://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj18 ... C02591.jpg

, or the weave with 2 horizontal strings, one on each side of the stem.
https://www.myskinnygarden.com/2010/06/s ... ethod.html

Or the one with one very tall horizontal string above all the plants, and then one vertical string reaching down and twisting around each individual plant's stem.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/51251503@N ... /lightbox/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/51251503@N ... /lightbox/

First of all, since the string is right next to the stem, how does that even help support the branches at all? Seems to me they already have some support from the stem, and the supplemental support would only be useful further out on the branch. I just don't understand how that supports the branch enough to keep it from drooping...? Secondly, since everyone says with the CRW that you need to keep poking the plants back inside or the branches will break.... how does this work with the string/rope of the weave? Don't you need to constantly readjust the string up on the pole? Or are you constantly cutting and replacing the string? I find this so confusing... I feel like an idiot!

I would like to do the stakes/string if possible, because it would take up a lot less space in storage. But I can't wrap my head around how string that close to the stem is helpful in any way. Otherwise, I really want to try the CRW, but my partner wants us to use the tomato cages (since that's all her parents ever used), and she doesn't like the rust on the CRW. Very difficult to convince her that it might be better for the plant!!

Please help the idiot!

[vinyl217]

I use a simple frame built out of conduit that I tie regular old garden trellis to. Not sure how they're using the string in the photo, but I would recommend the trellis method or something similar as I've never had luck with those tomato cages and imo the maters will outgrow them before the main production season has even started. Hope this helps.

[TZ -OH6]

Hi madonnaswimmer,


The short plants you always see are probably determinant varieties such as Roma, or people don't fertilize much there. If you give me some varietal names I can explain what you are seeing better, but I can plant out indeterminant beefsteak varieties on June 10 and have six foot plants in mid September.

For vertical strings and stakes you pinch off all of the side branches and are only supporting the main stem. It produces over half of a plant's tomatoes in a shorter season and you can fit two plants in the space of one so you get slightly more production than with a cage in the same space. Side branches also tend to produce a higher proportion of small fruit than the main stems.

The green string you see in the picture is a plastic coated clothes line cable that helps hold up my line of stakes in the soft soil and periodic high wind. It's got nothing to do with the tomatoes.

For the drop lines you will need a piece of electrical conduit pipe for the overhead and cotton clothes line for the drop lines. Use a clove hitch around the pipe and have a couple of feet extra line hanging down because the wrapping uses up line as the plant gets taller. Stakes made of 8 ft 2x2s are easier to work with IMO even though you have to tie off the stem to the stake once a week or so. The six foot 1"x2" wooden stakes you may see in the garden centers are for Florida weave, not for staking a single plant and tieing it off. They are the equivalent of the three ring cages aka pepper cages.

With the Florida weave where you have several strings between stakes you have to stick the branches in between the paralle lines of twine. If you have two stakes the twine is like a figure 8 between them and the branches go between the parallel strands of each level. It is like using a trellis somewhat, and it is mostly used for the short determinant varieties. I didn't get it to work because my twine kept stretching out and I had my stakes too far apart. I got frustrated, tore it all down and bought a roll of CRW for cages. the plants I grow are too tall for it any ways.

[madonnaswimmer]

If you give me some varietal names I can explain what you are seeing better,

My grandmother always plants one "Better boy" and one "Early girl" each year. My in-laws prefer "better boy" and "beefsteak." Both parties (one near Milwaukee, WI and the other near Red Wing, MN) use tomato cages and usually only have plants 3-4' tall. My grandmother buys her plants from local nurseries (I think she has used 2 or 3 over the years) and fertilizes once per month. My in-laws buy their plants from the local grocery store (it's a small town so the grocery store carries all sorts of necessities) and roadside sellers. Not sure how often the in-laws fertilize.

Stakes made of 8 ft 2x2s are easier to work with IMO even though you have to tie off the stem to the stake once a week or so. The six foot 1"x2" wooden stakes you may see in the garden centers are for Florida weave, not for staking a single plant and tieing it off.

Ok, I am confused again . Do you have any photos of these stakes and how they are used?


I planted Burpee's "Best boy," and "grape tomato," as well as some early harvest variety of theirs. Not sure if that's helpful...?
Sounds like the CRW cages may be best for me. Do I tie the main stem to a central stake in the middle, with the CRW around it? Or will the plant not need a stake if it is supported with the CRW? Will it hurt to stake it as well?

[TZ -OH6]

My mother used to grow all of those but used Rube Goldberg supports and most ended up on the ground so I don't know how tall they got.


I grew one of those hybrids a two years ago (forget which, beefsteak maybe) and it was shorter and stockier than my heirlooms. I think that it only came to the top of my 5 ft cages when the rest were over the top and escaping. My soil is dug to below the clay layer so the roots can get water all year and I don't have a late summer stunting problem. But the thick stems I remember are good for cages.


This is my version of an 8 ft 2"x2" stake with stem tied to it

https://www.flickr.com/photos/51251503@N ... 4247441049

It is cheaper for me to bypass the whole lumber industry aspect and cut 'weed' saplings on my property to do the same job, but every Home Depot has 8 ft 2x2s. Bury 1.5 ft in the ground and you have a good sturdy tomato stake even for tall plants.

Did you look at the whole set here. I have closeups of pretty much everything
https://www.flickr.com/photos/51251503@N ... 740609562/

Here you can see the fruit trusses tied off to the stake for a bit more support.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/51251503@N ... 247441049/

closeup

https://www.flickr.com/photos/51251503@N ... 247441049/



Plant not close to the stake

https://www.flickr.com/photos/51251503@N ... 247441049/

same plant later in season

https://www.flickr.com/photos/51251503@N ... 247441049/


more

https://www.flickr.com/photos/51251503@N ... 247441049/


https://www.flickr.com/photos/51251503@N ... 247441049/

You will notice more than one stem tied to the stake in those last pics. The main trunk often splits once or twice and I keep those so I may have 4-5 'stems' tied to the stake up high.





This shows the Florida weave, but the twine is usually crossed over between plants to hold the branches in better. Some people use a wire for one of the strands and then twine for the other to get rid of the problem of sagging and stretching twine, but that is usually for a more permanent set up.


https://scientificgardener.blogspot.com/ ... ethod.html




BTW, CRW cages laid on their side make great 'fences' to keep deer out of winter crops like your garlic patch where you don't want hoof divots. Just lay them around end to end and then all over the top of the plot. That way you don't have to "store" the cages over winter. I use them in the spring the same way to keep the deer off of the lettuce etc next to the house.

[Dillbert]

madonnaswimmer -

stepping back a bit for perspective, the whole purpose of any "tomato holder-upper thingie" is to avoid the plants sprawling on the ground, with the fruits in ground contact, etc. etc.

if you look at large commercial operations - no "tomato holder-upper thingies" - planted in long straight rows, sprawling everywhere, mechanically harvested, some % gets squished, usually planted through plastic sheeting.

the old generation tomato cages are not adequate to hold the weight when a tomato gets into gear.
there is a newer generation made with much heavier wire - I use those for peppers but haven't tried them for tomatoes - I rather suspect they are better but not "perfect"

folks with a large home garden and lots of tomatoes (as in 50-100+) like the horizontal wires strung between posts simply because it's less work threading tomatoes through the "support"
the vertical string thing - you wrap the string around the stem, and yes like most other staking methods, most of the "limbs" are not directly never supported. never tried it myself.

the concrete reinforcing wire cages are just heavier wire - they "work" pretty much same as "ye olde tomato cage" but will take the weight of a tomato in full fruit.

with your shorter season even the most wild variety may not hit the six foot mark - my spiral stakes are about five ft tall, when the plants go over that they flop or get lopped . . . note that the indeterminate types will keep growing 24x7x365.25 unless something (usually frost) kills them - but for example in Epcot Center - protected from freeze - I've seen basically tomato trees - huge huge main stems - more like seriously big grape vines than tomatoes....

[imafan26]

Indeterminate can get pretty big. Brandywine is huge even by my standards. Most of my cherry tomatoes are indeterminate get over 7 feet tall easily. I have a 6 foot trelis it get over the top of that and starts hanging down unless they are redirected or pruned.

I must confess that I am a heavy feeder and my tomatoes do get a lot of fertilizer. They get fed every month and tomatoes can last a very long time as long as disease does not kill them. I do give them a lot of nitrogen but they are laden with fruit so they are not all leaves. If I fed them less they would be shorter and bear well, but with considerably less total production.

[rainbowgardener]

Here's a very nice article on growing tomatoes in Wisconsin, which does discuss some of the staking issues. It notes that the idea of the vertical stakes is that you just keep a couple main stems and remove all the side shoots:

https://milwaukee.uwex.edu/files/2010/05 ... sA1691.pdf

You are just the next zone colder than me (I'm 6A and you are 5B) and have just two or three less frost free weeks. There is no reason tomato plants in your area, if well started indoors ahead of time, should not be getting 6 or more feet tall. Mine which I start very early, are that tall in August. If yours don't, it is either a soil fertility issue or a variety issue. Determinates and dwarf varieties will stay small, no matter what you do.