Best Advice for Getting a Ripe Tomato

[Eventually]

Every year I start waaayyyyy too many tomatoes, mostly for the fun of it, but also because I love trying to see if I can get different varieties to ripen in my area. So far, I have only had one year out of thirteen, where I got ripe tomatoes. I have tried a variety of things: wall-o-waters, red plastic mulch, and black plastic. My worst enemy is the WET month of May (to the point where building a second Noah's ark is a possibility:) and the fiercely windy month of June. I can't put anything into the ground until the first week of June because of the possibility of snow and freezing up until then and I always, without fail, get my first killing freeze the first week of September. Any suggestions?

[Jardin du Fort]

If it's ripe tomatoes you want, then you need more heat. Tomatoes love heat (within moderation). Eliot Coleman in Maine grows his tomatoes in a "cool house" meaning an unheated hoop greenhouse. It extends the growing season at both ends of summer, and he uses it in the middle of summer to grow tomatoes. It DOES get ventilated so it doesn't get too hot, but it may be something for you to try. You may not need a full size greenhouse, but at least a good size hoop row cover might help.

Eliot grows indeterminate tomatoes, and keeps the plants producing for a good while, even tipping the stems inside the greenhouse to accommodate the length of the stems. If you are growing determinate tomatoes, then you can probably get away with a row hoop easily.

[applestar]

What varieties have you tried already?
What kind of indoor set up do you have -- how large can you grow your transplants?

[Jardin du Fort]

Here in Indiana, my past experience is with Roma, BetterBoy, and another I can't recall offhand. They were all determinate, and all grown outside after transplanting. I have not used or thought I needed a hoop house for tomatoes. I get plenty without.

[Eventually]

I am working on putting up a few hoop houses like the ones Johnny's advertises. I was hoping to have them up last fall so that I could get things in them as soon as possible this spring, but it didn't work out like I planned. I was able to use a small one last spring and I put all of my peppers in it. It was fabulous, but because it was built wrong (gotta learn) the wind shredded it. Still got the best peppers ever, but definitely need a much sturdier frame/design. I am hopeful that Johnny's will work out. I guess, at this point, success in 2013 pretty much depends on whether I can get that hoop house up or not, and whether or not the wind takes it back down.

[Jardin du Fort]

Anchoring and bracing. My guess is that the hoops themselves were strong enough, but there was a lack of anchoring and bracing. Connect the hoops horizontally along the length of the row with smallish pipes. Connect the hoops diagonally with cord from the base of the end hoop to the top of a middle hoop, in both directions. And make sure the hoops and plastic are well anchored so they don't fly off in the wind. If THAT isn't enough, then you can either add more hoops per row, or use bigger pipes. If you plan on overwintering, then you will definitely need the latter to withstand snow loads.

[rainbowgardener]

I'm with applestar. In your very short growing season, key to success will be working with quick maturing varieties and having plants that are well started indoors, to the point of being already in bloom when you put them in the ground in June.

Also check out applestar's thread on winter indoor tomatoes. Consider growing a plant or two in containers that you could bring in when it starts getting too cold out and work on keeping them going indoors.

[digitS']

Eventually, you have faced a few real tough beginnings. The last 2 springs have had records of all the wrong sorts for getting things started in the garden. And that was after very mild winter temperatures . . .

The slow start and short season are only part of the problem. To give folks more of an idea about it: I once considered moving to a place not very far from Plummer - near Alder Creek . The elevation was 2,800' and I decided to camp on the property. The next morning, the water in the coffee pot was frozen. It was the 4th of July weekend!

As much as I don't like to, I will start off with what might be a sure-fire variety choice. It was the only tomato that successfully ripened when I lived at a 2,500' elevation: Sub-Arctic. There are a few sub-varieties of this open-pollinated tomato. I grew Maxi but that doesn't really describe either the plant or the fruit size. I felt that it didn't describe the flavor, either but . . .

Since that time, the Berlin Wall fell - literally! Some East European varieties came on the US market. I've only tried a few but I now garden at 2,000'. That makes a lot of difference.

I still have Early Girl in the garden every year. It actually hit the market when I lived at the higher elevation but I'm usually skeered of anything new . . . Anyway, it isn't just me who grows them; Early Girl is the most popular tomato in the US, I've read.

A little tomato that is real quick and sure seems to have a lot more flavor than Sub-Arctic is Bloody Butcher. It will be the first ripe tomato in my garden every year. I suppose that Gold Nugget cherries would be quicker but I don't really feel that I need to grow that very early determinate anymore. Both of these kind of show up with blinding speed.

I have had over 20 varieties in my garden lately but I want to try a couple new ones in 2013. One is Fireworks. It is another open-pollinated tomato that I've heard about for a few years. It may do well for you since one gardener who loves it lives not all that far from you.

There is another open-pollinated tomato that's from the University of New Hampshire. I know Gold Dust only from catalog pictures and, it isn't too commonly available but was developed at the University of New Hampshire. I think it makes sense to find out what those folks have done with plant breeding since their environment isn't too much different from our own.

The University of Idaho has had some tomato variety releases. I have grown several of them and was quite pleased with Kootenai. Believe it or not, there is one called Benewah that I've grown (Eventually lives in Benewah County ). I don't really remember much about it, tho'. Sand Hill Preservation sells seed for both of these and a couple more of those old UofI releases.

I hope that gives you some ideas.

Steve

[LA47]

I live in the mountains in S.E. Idaho with similar climate as you have and I have grown enough tomatoes to even can. I have had (and will have again this spring) an unheated greenhouse. I think a well built hoop tunnel would also work. I start my tomatoes the first of March with heat mats and lights in my home and I start hardening them off in the greenhouse the first of May with a heater for the cooler days and nights. If we have a really late freeze I can bring them back inside. They are planted in the ground in the greenhouse by mid-May again with a heater for cold snaps. They even survived a freak snow storm that dumped 6 inches of snow on us on June the 8th with temps down in the 30's, one year. Check out some of the hoop tunnels online to see how to build ones that will stand up to the wind.

[Eventually]

Jardin du Fort, yes, last year's hoop house failure was not a strong enough frame. My husband built it out of 1" pvc pipe, but spaced the ribs too far apart. When the wind came ripping down through our place it actually snapped the connectors at the top on three of the five ribs. Fifty -sixty mile an hour winds are not uncommon in the spring and our place seems to be a funnel for it. I am hoping that metal pipes, much closer together with appropriate bracing will tame the wind problem! There's nothing quite so depressing as going out to your hoop house and finding several plants that you have babied from a seed, beheaded! I think I cursed the wind that day:)

Steve, I think I have finally gotten to the place where I am looking for cold tolerant and short season tomato varieties. For the longest time I just kept planting all the lovely heirloom types, hoping for a miracle. Now it's time to let go of the dream and face reality. That's an excruciating thing to do for this Arizona girl! Thanks for the variety suggestions. I will look some of them up and add them to this year's plants. I am eager to get started with my seeds, but I really can't start much until the end of February, otherwise they get way to big and spindly.

So you spent some time on Alder Creek:) Our first place when we moved to Idaho was at the end of Alder Creek, literally, just before the bus turn around. Then we snaked down off the main road for a mile. What a shock to the system to have a hard freeze twelve months out of the year! It was the road that finally did us in. Eighteen miles of the worst dirt road imaginable, husband hated driving out to work, the cars took a serious beating, and outside activities were non-existent because it took too long to get anywhere. It's been an improvement moving to Plummer, but there are days where the call of sun is strong.

[Eventually]

LA47, I am beginning to see that if I want certain things to reach maturity I am going to have to put them in hoop houses. I have a small green house, 6x12, that I transfer plants from the house to, also in May. Have learned from experience that if I put them out sooner than that I will lose a lot of the plants even though I do have a small propane heater that I use. Invariably the propane runs out on the night it freezes the hardest! There have been times where I watched the weather forecast, thought it would be safe to leave the plants in the greenhouse, but woke up at midnight and hauled them all in (usually 25 flats) because I couldn't risk my 'babies' freezing

I am thinking raised beds might help with the cold, too. This past summer I converted some of my garden into raised beds so I could compare.

[digitS']

Filling out a seed order I remembered another tomato variety that I will grow again this year - Kimberley. It was developed by a guy in Kimberley, BC and it was my earliest medium-sized tomato the year I grew it. They are supposed to be 2 oz fruits but nearly all were 5 ounces! I can't help but think that the plants like it here .

Here is my hoop house. It is a very simple structure and in a very sheltered part of my yard. The tomatoes are in flats in the center with beds on either side - mostly with Asian greens.



I have just set the flats of tomatoes in there across the boards. They will only be there for a short time and are on their way to the open garden. The plastic will come off the hoop house sometime during June and some warm-season veggies will take the place of the bok choy and such.

I am standing in the door with the camera. Behind me is the carport & garage. To the left, the hoop house is right up against a greenhouse of the same size. A board fence is only 8' away to the right. Wind has never been much of a problem but the hoop house has fallen down twice because of a late snowstorm.

Steve

[applestar]

I'm so glad you are getting advice from gardeners in your area who are familiar with your particular situation.

I AM looking for early cold/cool weather tolerant tasty tomatoes. But since My criteria are for sedate indoor growing environment vs. the windy cold wild outdoors you all have been describing we would have to look for a common denominator. I'll be posting likely candidates in the thread rainbowgardener mentioned after a while and as more information are gathered over this growing season.

I now have a list of cold hardy Canadian tomatoes and Russian tomatoes that I'd never heard of/seen in the usual catalogs. In the preliminary round, I'm going to select from them the earlier and shorter (less than 36") type varieties.

[digitS']

The 1st seed order of the season was just clicked "finalize" for those new-to-me varieties I mentioned above. I'm kind of revved up and feel like I've just left the starting gate for the 2013 season!

Size is fairly important for earliness too, AppleStar. It is an unusual plant that can grow large in cool conditions. Size of the fruit is also important. Small plant size combined with small fruit size should equate to earliness. Maybe there are exceptions but large/large/early is a remarkable combination, especially if production counts.

I got a little confused on the spelling of Kimberley mentioned above and looked things up on Tatiana's Tomatobase: "a Siberia x Tiny Tim cross." Both are small plants/fruits and it is Kimberley with 2 "e's" as is the little town in the Canadian Rockies.

Ability to set fruit in cool conditions is a big deal. We've talked about that before, AppleStar. No tomato can survive a frost that I've ever grown but just sitting there and shivering doesn't put fruit on the plant, either. Finally getting a good amount of heat in late July may not be early enuf for Eventually to have ripe tomatoes off a heat-loving variety. Well, I'll just say that if a tomato needs 50+ days from fruit-set to ripe, they won't make it. Or, they won't make it outdoors . . .

Steve

[Eventually]

Steve, I loved the picture of your hoop house! Can you tell me how you anchor the plastic on?

Your hoop house is definitely protected, unlike mine. I have a 1/4 that is just an open field without any buildings around it. There aren't any trees either, just quack grass So, basically, when the wind starts up it roars through my field. I am hoping that metal pipes that can't break will help keep the structure upright this year.

I looked up my elevation today, and was pretty shocked to see Plummer is at 2,700 ft. I'm 300 feet higher than I thought!

[Eventually]

Steve, I forgot to ask, when do you usually start your plants?

[digitS']

For tomatoes that will eventually go in 4" pots before going outdoors, seed goes in soil about the 1st of March, Eventually. Starting the final week of February has been my habit for many years but these lingering springs have made it problematic. For most everything, there will be a 2nd sowing about 2 weeks after the 1st. Some of those plants may be left in 4-packs until planting out.

However, I can usually get everything out by the 15th of May. That hasn't been possible the last couple of years!

Steve, I loved the picture of your hoop house! Can you tell me how you anchor the plastic on?

Your hoop house is definitely protected, unlike mine. I have a 1/4 that is just an open field without any buildings around it. There aren't any trees either, just quack grass So, basically, when the wind starts up it roars through my field. I am hoping that metal pipes that can't break will help keep the structure upright this year.

I looked up my elevation today, and was pretty shocked to see Plummer is at 2,700 ft. I'm 300 feet higher than I thought!

Yikes!!!

I think your experiences with pepper success should guide your tomato growing. Yeah !

Rebar stakes are driven down at the corners of my hoophouse and baling twine crosses over the top. The edges are held down with a truckload of bricks. The plastic is tacked down with lathe around the window & door. The frames are 2 by 4's and, altho' they aren't very square & level , they are fairly well attached into the ground.

The hoop house is uncovered by late June but I have sometimes left the hoops there for vines to climb on.

Steve

[Eventually]

Thanks for the planting info. I have found the last couple of years to be much cooler and takes longer to get plants into the garden, too. It definitely affects when I plant my seeds. Glad to see I am pretty much on target with when to start most things.

Why do you plant a second batch of tomatoes? I guess I just always thought that I should be happy with what I get the first time around because there wouldn't be time to mature anything after the first batch.

Jennifer

[filmnet]

In have not let mine set on plants to ripped for many years, wait to long here in North East. I have learned to pick as soon as I/2 has a color. rippen inside with a banana or apple in brown bags. Otherwise like my neighbors they want them to rippen on plants. To me no different now and I get 11 hr of strong sun, they get very little and they rot. Last year and early disease so all plants died by September so I picked over 30 lbs off early

[digitS']

. . . Why do you plant a second batch of tomatoes? . .

Oops, missed that question, Jennifer.

I grow plants for other gardeners. They don't always get the ones in the larger containers .

As a nervous nelly, some of the pressure is off if'n I know that those younger plants are around as backups to the 1st sowing .

Steve