A question about the Tomato timeline?

[hardland]

I have over 30 tomato plants on the go here in Sth FL. Some are determinates, some indeterminates. 14 have been in the final container for about 5 weeks. I see lots of yellow blossoms, but very few Tomatoes. I'm curious when the tomatoes are supposed to become visible from the blossom end. Some varieties I have are 70 days to harvest, others as long as 90. Iv'e read about Tomatoe set spray, anyone used it?

[Tilde]

Depends on the pollinators, I think. I've got a lot in my yard (butterflies, other flying critters, dragonflies, today I saw a bee and I saw a wild bee swarm about 3 miles from my house).

I've been watching my husky tomatoes (indeterminate) closely; it goes from flower open a couple days (until pollinated) to closed and turning down / looking dry to growing a tomato within days after that.

[hardland]

Can you hand pollinate? I've done that with cucumbers and squash, applying some male pollen to the female flower. I guess it would be quite tedious, with the tiny tomato blossoms. If I wanted to do it what would be the proceedure? Thanks

[gixxerific]

Hand pollination is as malringardener said, give it a shake, possibly an electric toothbrush. Set spray is useles in my mind and many others.

Give them time it is probably as mg said again too humid maybe too hot. Tom's won't set after 85 - 90 or if it's too humid.

[carolyn137]

Aside from other issues here's a great link which shows the timeline of tomato ripening:

https://www.tomatosite.com/index.php?NT=Cultivation&RE=Truss_Timeline

Carolyn

[rainbowgardener]

Great link! thanks

[hardland]

Thank You Carolyn, That is a great reference site.
I think the problem I'm having here in humid, hot sth Fl is the heat and humidity! It's 89o today with prob 90 humidity!
I have given my wife a stick and she's going out to the Tom plants at Noon to give the wire cages a gentle tap! Hopefully this will spread some of that precious pollen around and aid in my fruit quest.
I suppose if you had the patience and time you could actually hand pollinate by hand, maybe with a q tip, rub some pollen from the flower onto the centre of flower??

[carolyn137]

Thank You Carolyn, That is a great reference site.
I think the problem I'm having here in humid, hot sth Fl is the heat and humidity! It's 89o today with prob 90 humidity!
I have given my wife a stick and she's going out to the Tom plants at Noon to give the wire cages a gentle tap! Hopefully this will spread some of that precious pollen around and aid in my fruit quest.
I suppose if you had the patience and time you could actually hand pollinate by hand, maybe with a q tip, rub some pollen from the flower onto the centre of flower??

Blossom drop in high heat areas in the south is always a problem and I have many tomato froends who do grpw tomatoes in S FL, the Miami area and elsewhere.

But if there's high sustained humidity, as was mentioned above, the pollen is sticky, actaully it clumps, making it much less affective or in some cases while still viable it can't get to the top of the stigma, so blossom drop still happens.

And no amount of tapping the plants or using toothbrushes or trying to hand pollinate can circumvent the issue of clumped pollen.

The blossom cycle is about three weeks so just hope that when the new blossoms that the heat and humidity are less than they are now.

I know that quite a few years ago there was one hybridizer from Petoseed, now a part of Seminis seeds, who was stationed in FL and was working on the issue of clumped pollen, but I haven't seen anyone introducing a tomato variety and stating loudly........this variety is not capable of clumping its pollen.

Carolyn

[hardland]

It was an 85 high today, with 78% humidity, wondering if thats too much for Tom plants?

[Tilde]

But humidity where? Are you out by FLL? Are you over in the western swamplands? Are you at the breezy coast?

According to Holly, tomato flowers come complete with both male and female organs and therefore they are considered self-fertilizing. The pollen is released between 10:00 a.m. and 4:00 p.m. on dry, sunny days and the wind will pollinate the flower sufficiently. However, if there is no breeze at all or the plant is sheltered in a greenhouse or under plastic, the plants will need some help. Holly says that you can gently vibrate the entire tomato plant to distribute the pollen yourself--best time to do this is midday when it's warm, and the humidity is low.

...

In Holly's report, she says that optimum fruit set occurs within a very narrow night temperature range of between 60° F and 70° F. So, when tomato plants experience night temperatures lower than 55° F or above 75° F, interference with the growth of pollen tubes prevents normal fertilization. The pollen may even become sterile, thus causing the blossoms to drop.

https://www.grow-tomato-sauce.com/tomatopollination.html

From the local uni:

Pollination should be done at least every second day. Vibrating is not effective on cloudy days because the humidity prevents pollen dehiscence even with vibration. However, it might be a good idea to pollinate every sunny day in the winter. This will avoid missing several days on end if the "skip-day" is sunny, but the next pollination day is cloudy. Therefore, every-day pollinating lessens the problems caused by cloudy days.

Pollination should be done during the daylight hours of 10 AM and 3 PM. Greenhouse humidity is lower at this time so that pollen dehiscence is highest. In addition, fruit size seems to be maximized by pollination during these hours. This is probably related to the increased amount of pollen available during these hours. When pollinating a cluster, it is important to be careful not to touch developing fruits since the slightest scrape can result in a serious fruit scar as the fruit enlarges.

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/cv266

This is the only one I found that took a stab at numbers:

https://www.sherrysgreenhouse.com/oldsite/GHtomnotes.html

Pollination should take place twice daily (morning and afternoon). Tomato flowers are ready for pollination when the petals curve backward. The window of time for successful pollination is 3 days.

Tomato roots do not function at temperatures below 58 degrees Fahrenheit. Water temperature should be 65 to 68 degrees.

Relative humidity decreases with temperature increase. Hot water in root area does not have enough oxygen for plant.

With high relative humidity, pollen may clump. With low relative humidity, pollen may become dry and bounce off. Tomatoes prefer a relative humidity of 60 to 80 percent.

Wait, one more:

Code: Select all

The optimum temperature for pollination is within the range of 70-82º F. Optimum relative humidity is 70 percent. Above 80 percent relative humidity, pollen grains stick together and are not dispersed well. With extended periods of relative humidity less than 60 percent, the stigma may dry out so that pollen grains will not stick to it. Under ideal conditions, fertilization occurs 48 hours after pollination.

...

Pollination should be done every other day or three times per week. Pollinating less often risks reducing fruit set. Pollinating more often is very likely a waste of time. The best time of day for pollinating is when relative humidity is between 60-70 percent. Since this is difficult to control, find when the relative humidity is at its daily low point. If the amount of moisture in the air stays constant, the relative humidity decreases as the temperature increases. This is because warm air can hold more moisture than cool air. The warmest time of day is usually mid-day. This is why the best time to pollinate is generally between 11 a.m. and 2 p.m
https://gpnmag.com/Want-To-Grow-Greenhouse-Tomatoes-article2796

[Tilde]

According to Holly, tomato flowers come complete with both male and female organs and therefore they are considered self-fertilizing. The pollen is released between 10:00 a.m. and 4:00 p.m. on dry, sunny days and the wind will pollinate the flower sufficiently. However, if there is no breeze at all or the plant is sheltered in a greenhouse or under plastic, the plants will need some help. Holly says that you can gently vibrate the entire tomato plant to distribute the pollen yourself--best time to do this is midday when it's warm, and the humidity is low.

...

In Holly's report, she says that optimum fruit set occurs within a very narrow night temperature range of between 60° F and 70° F. So, when tomato plants experience night temperatures lower than 55° F or above 75° F, interference with the growth of pollen tubes prevents normal fertilization. The pollen may even become sterile, thus causing the blossoms to drop.

https://www.grow-tomato-sauce.com/tomatopollination.html

Based on that one, I wonder if tomatoes would be successful shade grown in the summer, but rolled inside at night (as I envision building a ramp and tomato trolley)

[hardland]

I/m a mile from the ocean, in Broward county North.

But humidity where? Are you out by FLL? Are you over in the western swamplands? Are you at the breezy coast?

According to Holly, tomato flowers come complete with both male and female organs and therefore they are considered self-fertilizing. The pollen is released between 10:00 a.m. and 4:00 p.m. on dry, sunny days and the wind will pollinate the flower sufficiently. However, if there is no breeze at all or the plant is sheltered in a greenhouse or under plastic, the plants will need some help. Holly says that you can gently vibrate the entire tomato plant to distribute the pollen yourself--best time to do this is midday when it's warm, and the humidity is low.

...

In Holly's report, she says that optimum fruit set occurs within a very narrow night temperature range of between 60° F and 70° F. So, when tomato plants experience night temperatures lower than 55° F or above 75° F, interference with the growth of pollen tubes prevents normal fertilization. The pollen may even become sterile, thus causing the blossoms to drop.

https://www.grow-tomato-sauce.com/tomatopollination.html

From the local uni:

Pollination should be done at least every second day. Vibrating is not effective on cloudy days because the humidity prevents pollen dehiscence even with vibration. However, it might be a good idea to pollinate every sunny day in the winter. This will avoid missing several days on end if the "skip-day" is sunny, but the next pollination day is cloudy. Therefore, every-day pollinating lessens the problems caused by cloudy days.

Pollination should be done during the daylight hours of 10 AM and 3 PM. Greenhouse humidity is lower at this time so that pollen dehiscence is highest. In addition, fruit size seems to be maximized by pollination during these hours. This is probably related to the increased amount of pollen available during these hours. When pollinating a cluster, it is important to be careful not to touch developing fruits since the slightest scrape can result in a serious fruit scar as the fruit enlarges.

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/cv266

This is the only one I found that took a stab at numbers:

https://www.sherrysgreenhouse.com/oldsite/GHtomnotes.html

Pollination should take place twice daily (morning and afternoon). Tomato flowers are ready for pollination when the petals curve backward. The window of time for successful pollination is 3 days.

Tomato roots do not function at temperatures below 58 degrees Fahrenheit. Water temperature should be 65 to 68 degrees.

Relative humidity decreases with temperature increase. Hot water in root area does not have enough oxygen for plant.

With high relative humidity, pollen may clump. With low relative humidity, pollen may become dry and bounce off. Tomatoes prefer a relative humidity of 60 to 80 percent.

Wait, one more:

Code: Select all

The optimum temperature for pollination is within the range of 70-82º F. Optimum relative humidity is 70 percent. Above 80 percent relative humidity, pollen grains stick together and are not dispersed well. With extended periods of relative humidity less than 60 percent, the stigma may dry out so that pollen grains will not stick to it. Under ideal conditions, fertilization occurs 48 hours after pollination.

...

Pollination should be done every other day or three times per week. Pollinating less often risks reducing fruit set. Pollinating more often is very likely a waste of time. The best time of day for pollinating is when relative humidity is between 60-70 percent. Since this is difficult to control, find when the relative humidity is at its daily low point. If the amount of moisture in the air stays constant, the relative humidity decreases as the temperature increases. This is because warm air can hold more moisture than cool air. The warmest time of day is usually mid-day. This is why the best time to pollinate is generally between 11 a.m. and 2 p.m
https://gpnmag.com/Want-To-Grow-Greenhouse-Tomatoes-article2796

[Tilde]

So you might be wetter than wherever they are measuring RH in your county. Looks like you had some fog, too: https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/weather/hurricane/storm-center-blog/sfl-mostly-sunny-humid-20111116,0,6994656.story

Sounds like giving the plants a good buzz or shake at lunch every other day might do it. Or at least at the weekend ....

[carolyn137]

Some good info Tilde but rereading what you posted it seems to me that some of it is devoted to those folks who are collecting pollen to do their own crosses as in the best time to collect the pollen and the best time when the stigma is most receptive.

I'm not sure I agree with everything that Holly said, but no matter.

I don't know who Holly is and I don't know the person whose site I'm now linking to, but I think this one is also a look/see from a professional beekeepers perspective.

https://pollinator.com/blog/

Many years ago I did know a professional beekeeper who rented out hives for both field crops as well as in greenhouses and it was from him that I learned that in the beekeeper world, if a tomato blossom self pollinated with the aid of wind or bee vibration that it's called pollenization whereas if a blossom is pollinated with pollen from another variety, called natural cross pollination, then it is called pollination.

So for many years I've distinguished between pollenization vs pollination.

Talk about trivia, well I just talked about some TT ( tomato trivia).

Carolyn

[Tilde]

I have not idea either, I just used the google.

Looks like a lot of the sites I was looking at showed more greenhouse-friendly stats - I'm thinking if this is the poster I remember showing his setup in a fenced in side-yard he might not be getting enough breeze, too, even being near the ocean. I know my yard got a lot less windy when the neighbors fenced in.

But I've got lots of leapin lizards shaking up my tomatoes So maybe I don't need to shake the tomato too much on my own ....

[hardland]

So if a blossom gets pollinated, it turns into a tomato fruit, if not the blossom drops off? Or do some blossoms not get pollinated and just dry up and wither?

[gixxerific]

Yes if a flower becomes pollinated it should bear fruit. It will fall of if not pollinated. The bud may fall of either way (pollinated or not pollinated) if it succumbs to disease, pest, nutrient deficiency etc.