2011 Crosses (TZ's and few other "specials")

[TZ -OH6]

To self pollinate just shake the plant a little (whack the stake or cage with a stick) or put something like an electric toothbrush on the flower to buzz release the pollen. Best if done between about 10 am and 1 pm because that is when the plant releases pollen. Rubbing flowers together won't work very well because the pollen is internal.

To cross pollinate without the threat of self fertilization you have to open a late stage bud and pull off the immature anther cone with a tweezers and then put pollen on the stigma (and again the next day if possible). If you let the flower get old enough to open there is a good chance that it self pollinated.

To collect pollen I pull off several flowers, pull off the anther cones and let the anthers dry over night in a little pill vial (you could probably do it on shiny magazine paper in a pinch), shake the dry anthers around to release the pollen and then dab the pollen onto the stigmas (I scrape it up into a little pile with the tip of a butter knife). Some people can tap a flower over a glass slide to collect a little pollen and use that right away, but overall success is low so I like to do quite a few flowers and a good supply of pollen makes it easer.

[gardenbean]

Wow! I know this stuff is way over my head but I do so enjoy reading about it.

[Cuke]

Thanks for the help!I was doing it later in the day at around 3 or 4 pm so that would explain the low success rate.I did once or twice around noon so that's why only a few pollinated.I will try your trick once the weather isn't so dreary.

[Duh_Vinci]

Time for a little update... Sorry for less than ideal pictures, so humid outside, lenses just fog right up, so 5 year old P&S beater...

Stripes on one of the K x GS are getting more pronounced:


[img]https://drphotography.smugmug.com/photos/I-Dhnw4r7/0/L/I-Dhnw4r7-L.jpg[/img]


Finally, on of the later flowering K x GS is showing it's fruit shapes - unmistakeably elongated sausages:


[img]https://drphotography.smugmug.com/photos/I-2KcKGGT/0/L/I-2KcKGGT-L.jpg[/img]


Has extremely long leaf branches, lower are up to 28":


[img]https://drphotography.smugmug.com/photos/I-sK5fLKN/0/O/I-sK5fLKN.jpg[/img]


And last but not least, one of the larger of K x (LGSxGS) possibly a heart after all? First fruit from the first page:


[img]https://drphotography.smugmug.com/photos/I-LHZDBxj/0/O/I-LHZDBxj.jpg[/img]


Another fruit set on this plant:


[img]https://drphotography.smugmug.com/photos/I-gM5h3hK/0/O/I-gM5h3hK.jpg[/img]


So far, fruits on all plants differ from one another, despite the fact that all plants looked nearly identical up until transplanted into the garden... Really enjoying this "unknown" factor of the growout!

Regards,
D

[TZ -OH6]

Nice, hopefully the heart will be an unusual color (green or black).


I 'think" that the actual stripes (gs gene) are the white lines, not the dark green, which is a normal color that disappears with ripening.

I'm glad that the thin straggly 'bird's nest' plant habit of Green Sausage is not showing up. Maybe the extra long leaves are part of that. I don't think I have any quite that long but they are probably still growing. I only have some baby fruit so far so I can't tell what they are.

I am growing out 16-20 of each of those crosses and I'm getting a lot of variation/segregation. Its hard to get pictures because I have four to a cage-pruned to one stem -- using the cage as a trellis, but I'll keep trying. Your picture of sausages shows a linear cherry type truss, but I am also seeing big branched trusses from the Kosovo parent, and some smaller 'normal' trusses. On a couple of [K x LGSxGS] I have multiflora trusses with several dozen flowers. It will be interesting to see how they hold fruit larger than a cherry.

What type of truss is your striped heart on (strait? branched? how many flowers?)

[Duh_Vinci]

Some of mine are truss-like as you mentioned, some are cherry-type branched trusses...

One of the K x (LGS x GS), non-heart is very different from the rest, leafs are half the length, and it is at maybe 3' tall, compare to the others, which are reaching the top of 54" cages... Will extend the cages later this week...

Heat shaped one, leafs are as long as Kosovo, and flower trusses are almost "hybrid", they are long, and 4-6 flower on each:

[img]https://drphotography.smugmug.com/photos/I-Xxm4SwK/0/XL/I-Xxm4SwK-XL.jpg[/img]

[img]https://drphotography.smugmug.com/photos/I-WL4mpvF/0/XL/I-WL4mpvF-XL.jpg[/img]

There are 5-6 more visible fruits on it now, and most are resembling the hearts also...

Other plants, K x GS flower trusses:

[img]https://drphotography.smugmug.com/photos/I-7x9RNdF/0/XL/I-7x9RNdF-XL.jpg[/img]

[img]https://drphotography.smugmug.com/photos/I-T8M28qH/0/XL/I-T8M28qH-XL.jpg[/img]

[img]https://drphotography.smugmug.com/photos/I-p5nB8Qw/0/XL/I-p5nB8Qw-XL.jpg[/img]

[img]https://drphotography.smugmug.com/photos/I-D8sfFRT/0/XL/I-D8sfFRT-XL.jpg[/img]

[img]https://drphotography.smugmug.com/photos/I-cHdmmJb/0/XL/I-cHdmmJb-XL.jpg[/img]

16-20 of each of those for you? Man, don't know how you keep up with those suckers, hats off to you, TZ! Look forward to see what type of fruits will show up on your plants!

Regards,
D

[TZ -OH6]

Sounds like you did get a dwarf. The dwarfs look like they have normal leaves. I stunted mine by putting them in six packs instead of 3" pots to save space, and they got some abusive neglect so they are only a foot tall, but yours could easily be 3 ft by now.

I decided that I really hate sitting in the dirt scraping my arm on rusty cages to clear out sick leaves and non productive branches twice a season so I don't mind quickly pinching off suckers as I look them over. For the season I grow wicked thumbnail...like a velociraptor.

[Duh_Vinci]

TZ, well, that is indeed making sense! Specially after spending 3-4 hours this evening doing just that, clearing lower leafs, on my hands an knees, tying up the trusses, and all the other fun stuff that comes with that!

Early in the year, my goal was to NOT let any plants get more than 4 main branches, but spending nearly 5 months burred in the books for the large medical exam, suckers got away, imagine that

Now that I'm done with it, free time is abundant, I completely understand on how a little work early in the growing stages can save a lot of work later in the season. Your crosses are all trimmed to 3-4 main branches. Dwarf (and it certainly looks like a dwarf now), was pruned at first, but now, I'm letting it "live" a little... Some of my later planting (Polish Pastel, Pontano Romanesca, Indian Stripe, Pork Chop, Cherokee Purple) are all kept neat as well, and as your observations last year, I actually prefer to have then thinned out as such - more air flow, fruits seem to be better shape and size and still plenty, and soooooo much easier to work around them later in the season!

This year's fist attempt to "Grafting" - Kosovo on Emperador root stock (to test it's resistance to fusarium), I actually kept it to a single stem. But the first cluster of flowers actually has grown into a separate runner with a full growing tip, so I'm letting it go. And on the side note, much greater vigor compare to the Kosovo with it's original roots, same soil, same treatment. Will see later in the season...

Anywho, back to your crosses... Extended the "cages", good thing I kept them all, now 54" are double stacked, pruned some lower and internal leafs for a better flow, here are few pics of your crosses:

Shortest K x GS:

[img]https://drphotography.smugmug.com/photos/I-nS6h737/0/O/I-nS6h737.jpg[/img]

Tallest of the K x GS:

[img]https://drphotography.smugmug.com/photos/I-vX6dtPn/0/O/I-vX6dtPn.jpg[/img]

All have very similar appearance with extremely long leaf branches, wispy indeed, and oh my, do they like to give off the suckers!!!

Now two what I believe turned out to be a dwarf, K x (LGS x GS):

[img]https://drphotography.smugmug.com/photos/I-R26dzG2/0/O/I-R26dzG2.jpg[/img]

And a little closer on the fruit:

[img]https://drphotography.smugmug.com/photos/I-hGWJNCc/0/O/I-hGWJNCc.jpg[/img]

The other K x (LGS x GS) is setting up the fruit fairly well, will see... Still, mos of the fruits are very much are elongate hearts!

Are you seeing any shapes of the fruits yet?

Green, I believe that is one of TZ's favorites, I tend to lean on the Cherokee Purple/Spudakee and Black from Tula...

Regards,
D

[TZ -OH6]

Talking about those truss runners. I forgot about those on first trusses of the year and bagged those buds on most of my plants, and of course the bags filled up with the runner and I ended up having to mutilate the trusses and lost a lot of potential fruit...[so TZ leaves self note to bag blossoms on second truss not first]. The longest runner I ever had was on a Black from Tula, which got abour 2 ft long and stayed pretty wimpy so now I pinch them off after the last flower as it probably helps prevent BER in a miniscule way.

I'm seeing a range of fruit shapes from thin pointy fingers to fat plums. I'm not seeing the "top" shape of baby hearts yet.


Greens are actually far from my favorites, but if you want a black tomato you have to add the greenfruit gene to red flesh. The green beefteaks also tend to be watery so are difficult to cook down into sauce, and a dry tomato (paste-type) is better for pico de gallo/ fresh salsa The only green paste I know of is Green Sausage. Green Sausage has a really good flavor for a paste, but is a straggly prostrate determinant plant. So while thinking about what crosses would be fun to make, taking into consideration what I had growing that year, Kosovo x Green Sausage seemed pretty cool because the gene combinations would produce the following:

Solid and stripes of the following
Red hearts and pastes
Pink hearts and pastes
Black (purple and brown) hearts and pastes
Green-(amber and clear green) hearts and pastes
It might also produce yellows, but I'll have to think about that.

At the time I was leaning toward becoming world famous for inventing a good black heart, and a black paste for sauce.

[Runningtrails]

Thank you so much for this info! I have two tomatoes that I plan to cross next year and just havn't gotten around to researching it yet! Great pics and information!!

I want to cross my own Portugal heirloom tomatoes here:

[img]https://www.providenceacresfarm.com/images/tomatoab.jpg[/img]

[img]https://www.providenceacresfarm.com/images/008.jpg[/img]

Crossed with the original Gordon Graham tomato plant that I have growing now. I have just the one plant that is a direct baby grown from the seed of the "World's Larget Tomato". I'll be saving seed from it this year. Next year I want to cross the two.

[TZ -OH6]

That Portugal is a nice looking tomato. It will be interesting to see all the variation that comes out in your second generation.

[Duh_Vinci]

Sorry, haven't posted for few weeks, been a little busy with few side projects, but it's time for a report...

No GWR on any plants, maybe next year... Few plants are pure red sausages, with very neutral flavor, that doesn't stand out... But also, extremely prone to BER. They get the same water and treatment as the rest of my plants, but these reds are the only once started BER as soon as the weather went into the 90's...

There are few exceptions. The only hear shaped fruits from K x (LGSxGS) - bicolor, orange/red, smaller sized hearts. Very mild flavor, medium /compact ind plant with tons of fruit. Let's just hope that the flavor would improve in F3 growout, very mild so far:

[img]https://drphotography.smugmug.com/photos/I-K6msP2n/0/O/I-K6msP2n.jpg[/img]

Three more of the "unique" treats:

[img]https://drphotography.smugmug.com/photos/I-QP2sBmg/0/O/I-QP2sBmg.jpg[/img]

One of the K x GS with very attractive, larger sized plums are nice, pale yellow/pastel color, with some faint pink blush in some areas, flavor - if I was blind folded, I would say tasted exactly like Lemon Boy... Tallest plant from all, already reached the top or 2 stacked 54" cages:

[img]https://drphotography.smugmug.com/photos/I-xp4h8GJ/0/O/I-xp4h8GJ.jpg[/img]

One of the K x GS brick red fruit with faint "gold specs", and very good flavor, but also very prone to BER. though much less than other reds:

[img]https://drphotography.smugmug.com/photos/I-ct6J6B9/0/O/I-ct6J6B9.jpg[/img]

The best flavor and aroma is from the dwarf K x (LGSxGS), and it is Black Sausage. The moment I cut into it, aroma of smokiness is amazing! Very typical to most blacks, purple/pink inner flesh with dark green gel, not overwhelmingly sweet, but rather complex black flavor. Coloration is rather similar to Paul Robeson I grew before, rusty/purple exterior wit green shoulders

[img]https://drphotography.smugmug.com/photos/I-StM6nL3/0/O/I-StM6nL3.jpg[/img]

So these are selections from these F2 growout I felt worth saving seeds from to carry out to next generation (unless you want me to save some seeds from other reds as well)?

Got anything interesting showing up in your garden yet?

Regards,
D

[TZ -OH6]

Can I send mine to you to take pictures

That black dwarf sounds great!

Save seeds from whatever you want, they are yours to do what you will (sell to Burpee and get rich ). You may not want to gamble on the F3s tasting better and just try for something better to show up next year from another set of F2s. I figure that 10% or less will be really good. I put in four F1 Kx [LGSxGS] so I'll have lots of seeds (and diverstiy) if anyone wants to play with these crosses next year.

Right now I have 17 KxGS, 20 Kx[LGSxGS] and 7-8 dwarfs going with a lot of variation in plant height, fruit shape and productivity, no color is showing yet though. Even though conditions favor it BER this summer it is only showing up badly on a few scattered plants. Unless they have some desirable triat I'll toss them (hope they are tastelss red things). I'll post lots of pictures to my Flickr page when they start coming in.

These are two promising plants sharing the same cage...hoping for funny colors

https://www.flickr.com/photos/51251503@N03/5940345925/in/photostream

https://www.flickr.com/photos/51251503@N03/5940347745/in/photostream