Well, despite of achieving the goal of having first tomato by mid May, there are some nasties in the main garden...
Few weeks ago, I noticed that tomato plants kinda stuck at about 3' height, and new leafs are thinner and curling up... Well, by now, about 90% of 40 plants display severe leaf distortion on the new growth, which matches with everything I know on appearance of either CMV, or herbicide drift damage...
I tell you, very disheartening to look at these plants for the moment. And since with just a naked eye it is nearly impossible to tell the difference between the two nasties, I took one plant (roots and all) to the local co-op office this afternoon. They were kind enough to offer to ship it to Virginia Tech for testing against these two (CMV Vs. 2,4-D herbicide) absolutely free of charge.
Recovery - not likely for some. It has been raining for the past 5 days (heavily), and will continue to do so for the rest of the week. So in hopes that if it is a herbicide damage, it may wash some of out of the beds and I can replace the plants... No, I don't have all the varieties to replace, but I do have about 20 seedlings at various stages of growth (TZ's crosses of Kosovo X GS, few Kosovo seedlings, few Little Lucky, few Polish Pastel and the youngest Pontano Romanesca and few more dwarfs).
So far, the only tomatoes plants that have not been affected are few what's growing on the deck, in containers (dwarfs), and few containers on the side of the garage. So there is still a little hope.
If it is CMV, however, I will have to pull every single plant out of the garden... So now, all I can do, is wait, and see what results VT tests will bring. Wish me luck, hoping you have a better year than us!!!
Regards,
D
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hit or miss
- Green Thumb
- Posts: 354
- Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 4:57 pm
- Location: central Kansas
I've fought leaf curling on my maters now for what seems like years! 
I've done tons of research, blamed chemical drift, you name it. Last year someone posted that too much water will do that to them! It hasn't seemed to affect the production on the plants though. I guess I'm just saying I understand your frusteration!
I've done tons of research, blamed chemical drift, you name it. Last year someone posted that too much water will do that to them! It hasn't seemed to affect the production on the plants though. I guess I'm just saying I understand your frusteration!Certainly is a bummer...
The only thing I've added this year was (same as before) was a little of spent mushroom compost and well aged cow manure from the friends little farm. But it's the same stuff I've been using and what he has been using in his garden. No 2,4-D there for sure, he does not use any herbicides... And there are few container varieties got a little bit of this distortion as well (not used manure or compost in those containers)
Was there something else can be in the cow manure?
On the positive note, I have a new batch of your crosses to grow out (under the grow lights), strong, healthy looking seedlings to go in the ground, as soon as I find out from VT to have on my hands here...
Regards,
D
The only thing I've added this year was (same as before) was a little of spent mushroom compost and well aged cow manure from the friends little farm. But it's the same stuff I've been using and what he has been using in his garden. No 2,4-D there for sure, he does not use any herbicides... And there are few container varieties got a little bit of this distortion as well (not used manure or compost in those containers)
Was there something else can be in the cow manure?
On the positive note, I have a new batch of your crosses to grow out (under the grow lights), strong, healthy looking seedlings to go in the ground, as soon as I find out from VT to have on my hands here...
Regards,
D
As of this morning, after a week of rain, about 50% of the plants starting to actually look better. So I'm somewhat inclined to think it is a herbicide drift damage. I'm guessing that downpour rains simply washed most of the junk from the raised beds...??? Will see, wouldn't know for sure until I hear from Virginia Tech.
The plant is actually there already for the test, got a phone call yesterday from them. "If it wasn't for new growth damage due to whatever it is, the strongest, healthiest plant we have seen in a long long time, will figure it it..."
Yes, please do! I want tomatoes!
Regards,
D
The plant is actually there already for the test, got a phone call yesterday from them. "If it wasn't for new growth damage due to whatever it is, the strongest, healthiest plant we have seen in a long long time, will figure it it..."
Yes, please do! I want tomatoes!
Regards,
D
DV,
Any information back from Virginia Tech yet?
I have to honestly say I wasn't aware Cucumber Mosaic Virus would effect tomato plants. I guess I've not seen it before.
I have been reading a lot of threads of herbicide contamination with a broadleaf herbicide which has now been banned in most European countries. I can't remember the name of the herbicide, but it was sold by Dupont or Monsanto. The problem resulted when cattle would graze on treated pastures and the manure would then be used as a fertilizer for broad leaf vegetables. The leaves would become curled and the plants would be stunted. Apparently it could even be transmitted in hay grown in treated pastures for animal feed. A farmer would have pastures which had not been treated, but he would purchase hay which resulted in contaminated manure.
From the information I've read, the company which produced and sold the herbicide will test your soil for traces of the herbicide and if detected; will contract to remove the contaminated soil to about five feet deep. They then will replace it with good soil from a vendor of the home owners choice at no cost to the home owner. One home owner reported the chemical company probably spent $20,000 replacing his garden soil. I can't post the thread here because it is on a different forum you and I use often. I can PM you the url if you haven't read it.
Ted
Any information back from Virginia Tech yet?
I have to honestly say I wasn't aware Cucumber Mosaic Virus would effect tomato plants. I guess I've not seen it before.
I have been reading a lot of threads of herbicide contamination with a broadleaf herbicide which has now been banned in most European countries. I can't remember the name of the herbicide, but it was sold by Dupont or Monsanto. The problem resulted when cattle would graze on treated pastures and the manure would then be used as a fertilizer for broad leaf vegetables. The leaves would become curled and the plants would be stunted. Apparently it could even be transmitted in hay grown in treated pastures for animal feed. A farmer would have pastures which had not been treated, but he would purchase hay which resulted in contaminated manure.
From the information I've read, the company which produced and sold the herbicide will test your soil for traces of the herbicide and if detected; will contract to remove the contaminated soil to about five feet deep. They then will replace it with good soil from a vendor of the home owners choice at no cost to the home owner. One home owner reported the chemical company probably spent $20,000 replacing his garden soil. I can't post the thread here because it is on a different forum you and I use often. I can PM you the url if you haven't read it.
Ted
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gixxerific
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 5889
- Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:42 pm
- Location: Wentzville, MO (Just West oF St. Louis) Zone 5B
That is disheartening to say the least. A lot of the tom's I have are from you and to hear you having this problem I just want to cry.
Anxious to see what come of the test results. If you need any tomatoes I will dig one up and send it to you bro.
No problems.
I will be saving seed this year.
Good luck bro.
Anxious to see what come of the test results. If you need any tomatoes I will dig one up and send it to you bro.
No problems.
I will be saving seed this year.
Good luck bro.
Thank you all for the kind words, appreciated indeed!
Lunacy, I hear you, it can be tough at times caring for the garden, specially when all the hard work you put into it being nearly wiped out!
Ted, haven't heard from VT lab yet, but hopefully sometime this week... Very interesting info about this herbicide, please, send me a link, quite intriguing to read up more on it!
Dono, thank you my man, appreciate it very much! I'm hardening off TZ's crosses and few backup as we speak, so I shall not go tomatoless this year!
Regards,
D
Lunacy, I hear you, it can be tough at times caring for the garden, specially when all the hard work you put into it being nearly wiped out!
Ted, haven't heard from VT lab yet, but hopefully sometime this week... Very interesting info about this herbicide, please, send me a link, quite intriguing to read up more on it!
Dono, thank you my man, appreciate it very much! I'm hardening off TZ's crosses and few backup as we speak, so I shall not go tomatoless this year!
Regards,
D
I don't think drift would be the problem unless all the broadleaf plants between you and the horse farm were also effected. I would be more suspicious of any manure you may have applied. A manure supplier could have great manure to dispose of for many years and suddenly feed his animals some hay from a new hay supplier and not even know he has a problem until a lot of folks start asking what was in the manure you gave or sold me. I hope it works out for you.
I'm fighting Septoria right now. I've never had it this bad. It isn't hurting my tomatoes, but they look kinda funny on naked plants about half way up. We have had perfect weather since early March for growing tomatoes. We have also had some high winds that kept my blooms shaking and pollinating. All the great growing weather and conditions are also perfect for fungal attacks.
Ted
I'm fighting Septoria right now. I've never had it this bad. It isn't hurting my tomatoes, but they look kinda funny on naked plants about half way up. We have had perfect weather since early March for growing tomatoes. We have also had some high winds that kept my blooms shaking and pollinating. All the great growing weather and conditions are also perfect for fungal attacks.
Ted
I just found several cases of CMV on my seedlings sitting out waiting to be planted, which is kinda neat because I've never seen it before. Some seed might have been infected.
More troublesome is a few early blight spots from the crappy weather. The flea beetles are out in force so the chemicals are coming out tomorrow.
More troublesome is a few early blight spots from the crappy weather. The flea beetles are out in force so the chemicals are coming out tomorrow.
You got to love the humidity and crappy weather! Good luck guys fighting Septoria and Early blight!
CMV - TZ, I don't know much about it (well, I didn't know anything until now), but according to Cornell: "CMV is not seedborne in tomato and does not persist in plant debris in the soil or on workers" hands."
It seems that major vector they list is Aphids for inoculation of CMV into the plants. And I remember reading somewhere, it takes less that 2 min to infect the plant! Amazing nasty!
On the positive note (well, not sure how positive it really is, but), got a call from co-op extension today at work, results are back from Virginia Tech, and it is 2-4,D damage. Absolutely no traces of CMV! Full report is in the mail... A help from local co-op extension and VT lab is very much appreciated!!!
I have not seen my garden in 2 days, leave for work in the dark, come back when it's dark. Will see tomorrow. Hoping that the some plants may grow out of it, or at least let me have the fruits they have set.
I did ask my farmer friend who I get the composted cow poop, he never used anything of such, and just added same poop to his garden, about the same time I did, and most of his seedlings were from me as well. Lush and beautiful!
So my guess, it would be coming from the hey/straw bales I bought from a meadows farm, or a drift from nearby horse pasture... Just hope it's not an extensive damage to the soil, and I have little to no issues next year... Will see... I still have one 15' raised bed with none of that hey on it, free and clear from anything, saved it for the later planting - TZ, looks like your crosses are going there!
Happy growing all and good night!
Regards,
D
CMV - TZ, I don't know much about it (well, I didn't know anything until now), but according to Cornell: "CMV is not seedborne in tomato and does not persist in plant debris in the soil or on workers" hands."
It seems that major vector they list is Aphids for inoculation of CMV into the plants. And I remember reading somewhere, it takes less that 2 min to infect the plant! Amazing nasty!
On the positive note (well, not sure how positive it really is, but), got a call from co-op extension today at work, results are back from Virginia Tech, and it is 2-4,D damage. Absolutely no traces of CMV! Full report is in the mail... A help from local co-op extension and VT lab is very much appreciated!!!
I have not seen my garden in 2 days, leave for work in the dark, come back when it's dark. Will see tomorrow. Hoping that the some plants may grow out of it, or at least let me have the fruits they have set.
I did ask my farmer friend who I get the composted cow poop, he never used anything of such, and just added same poop to his garden, about the same time I did, and most of his seedlings were from me as well. Lush and beautiful!
So my guess, it would be coming from the hey/straw bales I bought from a meadows farm, or a drift from nearby horse pasture... Just hope it's not an extensive damage to the soil, and I have little to no issues next year... Will see... I still have one 15' raised bed with none of that hey on it, free and clear from anything, saved it for the later planting - TZ, looks like your crosses are going there!
Happy growing all and good night!
Regards,
D
I did a little digging and found seed transmittion for pepper, and spinach
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19819264
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18945063
and tomato
https://www.avrdc.org/pdf/tomato/CMV.pdf
But the origin here is unclear. Two of your varieties were infected (1 of 3 plants and 2 of 3 plants) and one of mine (2 of 3 plants). I have seen no aphids on any of the tomato plants, and I don't know if they were in contact with each other. I know the parent plant of my seeds was clean. A long shot is that somehow it originated from infected seed potatoes...or they caught it off of a toilet seat
.
Did you get any dwarf plants from the [K x [LGSxGS]] cross? Only one of my two sets of seeds had that gene and I forget if I mixed the sets for you.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19819264
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18945063
and tomato
https://www.avrdc.org/pdf/tomato/CMV.pdf
But the origin here is unclear. Two of your varieties were infected (1 of 3 plants and 2 of 3 plants) and one of mine (2 of 3 plants). I have seen no aphids on any of the tomato plants, and I don't know if they were in contact with each other. I know the parent plant of my seeds was clean. A long shot is that somehow it originated from infected seed potatoes...or they caught it off of a toilet seat
.Did you get any dwarf plants from the [K x [LGSxGS]] cross? Only one of my two sets of seeds had that gene and I forget if I mixed the sets for you.
Ahhh, got the report today...
"Negative for Cucumber Mosaic Virus. Diagnosis: Chemical Injury"
And in the comments, they strongly suggest the traces of it in the straw/mulch found in the sample I provided. Actually went to my friends farm this eve, absolutely no signs of 2-4,D in his garden next to his cow pasture. He never spays anything there at all. So again, either drift or more likely the unfortunate straw. Oh well, life goes on, but unfortunate indeed...
TZ, this CMV stuff, apparently is very easily transferable to uninfected plants via insects, getting rid of your few infected?
From your crosses, I planted out the seeds for KxGS and K x [LGSxGS], no dwarfs that I can tell. And actually, all the seedlings of these crosses look nearly identical, growth rate, color and leaf shape. Hardening off for the 3rd day now, will be planted early next week.
I will be taking photos during the season, and will post them here... Really looking forward to a possibility of strong, compact green hearts (and just plain curiosity, since F2 is where the segregation happens widely if I'm not mistaken)
Regards,
D
"Negative for Cucumber Mosaic Virus. Diagnosis: Chemical Injury"
And in the comments, they strongly suggest the traces of it in the straw/mulch found in the sample I provided. Actually went to my friends farm this eve, absolutely no signs of 2-4,D in his garden next to his cow pasture. He never spays anything there at all. So again, either drift or more likely the unfortunate straw. Oh well, life goes on, but unfortunate indeed...
TZ, this CMV stuff, apparently is very easily transferable to uninfected plants via insects, getting rid of your few infected?
From your crosses, I planted out the seeds for KxGS and K x [LGSxGS], no dwarfs that I can tell. And actually, all the seedlings of these crosses look nearly identical, growth rate, color and leaf shape. Hardening off for the 3rd day now, will be planted early next week.
I will be taking photos during the season, and will post them here... Really looking forward to a possibility of strong, compact green hearts (and just plain curiosity, since F2 is where the segregation happens widely if I'm not mistaken)
Regards,
D
Too bad about the straw. Any chance it was this stuff
https://www.the-compost-gardener.com/picloram.html
People have gotten Dow to haul off and replace their entire garden soil after it was ruined by infected manure.
I was out weeding the perimeter today and found a patch of funky wild carrot so flea beetles might have transfered the CMV from the weeds. It might be an interesting year.
https://www.the-compost-gardener.com/picloram.html
People have gotten Dow to haul off and replace their entire garden soil after it was ruined by infected manure.
I was out weeding the perimeter today and found a patch of funky wild carrot so flea beetles might have transfered the CMV from the weeds. It might be an interesting year.
Interesting info on this nasties from DOW indeed, Ted sent me a link with the info on their damage not long ago as well. Amazing what kind of damage their junk does to the crop!
Thank you for this link as well, has all the names of the actual chemicals. What I'm going to do, is call the number to the company who provides Meadows Farms with this hay/straw on Tuesday to see if any exposure to 2-4,D Picloram, Clopyralid and Aminopyralid is possible/present in their process of "growing" this hay/straw. Will see...
And those flea beetles!!! Hate those little monsters! These are the reason why I no longer grow eggplants! They just don't survive, unless I spray with Pyrithrine every other day! But indeed, the best "trap crop" anyone can wish for! They only variety I was able to harvest to some extent is the Ichiban, somehow, while they like it fine, they prefer other varieties of heirloom eggplants if planted near by.
Good luck, TZ!
Regards,
D
Thank you for this link as well, has all the names of the actual chemicals. What I'm going to do, is call the number to the company who provides Meadows Farms with this hay/straw on Tuesday to see if any exposure to 2-4,D Picloram, Clopyralid and Aminopyralid is possible/present in their process of "growing" this hay/straw. Will see...
And those flea beetles!!! Hate those little monsters! These are the reason why I no longer grow eggplants! They just don't survive, unless I spray with Pyrithrine every other day! But indeed, the best "trap crop" anyone can wish for! They only variety I was able to harvest to some extent is the Ichiban, somehow, while they like it fine, they prefer other varieties of heirloom eggplants if planted near by.
Good luck, TZ!
Regards,
D