Tomato Support/Cages for Containers?

[Imperialboy]

https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25230

Read that in case I planted some tomatoes in the ground. (Only have space for a couple [and in random spots around the yard too]) But the OP didn't really state the best method.

What's the best method for staking tomatoes in containers? I think the largest container I'll use for tomatoes would be 5 gallon. Is that too small?

[Kisal]

I think that is up to the individual. I don't think there is one "best" way to provide support for a tomato plant. I prefer staking, because I can use one or several stakes, depending on the needs of the particular plant, and I can arrange them in whatever configuration suits the plant best. I find them to be most versatile. OTOH, there are many people who like to use cages of one type or another.

A 5-gallon container is the minimum size for a tomato plant.

[Imperialboy]

I think that is up to the individual. I don't think there is one "best" way to provide support for a tomato plant. I prefer staking, because I can use one or several stakes, depending on the needs of the particular plant, and I can arrange them in whatever configuration suits the plant best. I find them to be most versatile. OTOH, there are many people who like to use cages of one type or another.

A 5-gallon container is the minimum size for a tomato plant.

Kk. So what are some options for container tomato support?
What would be recommended? 10 -15?

[cynthia_h]

The thread that you linked to at the top of this one has several recommendations for container-grown tomato plants. Gardening is an art, not a science; there is usually more than one way to achieve a given result. Please read the five-page thread again, noting that not everyone uses the word "container"; there may be other words, like "pot," "potted," "tub," or even "bucket."

So if you're speed-reading for the key word "container," you may have missed a lot of helpful information in that thread. Don't overlook the words "cage" or "cages," either.

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

[applestar]

Check out threads by member sani as well. We recently made bunch of suggestions.

[Imperialboy]

So the best methods now I've read about are just a wooden stake in pot before add soil. Then add a wire fence around it if needed. From SP8's site and what Sani is doing.

The other way is the horizontal pole with hanging rope or bamboo stakes. I don't know how to put the horizontal pole tho or build a standing one

[hardland]

I take 4 pcs of 3/4 inch bamboo and place them in the soil making a square, then I brace the bottom with four smaller pcs using elec ties. You can do this all the way up to 6ft and higher. Where I want to center the stem I just put a cross brace and use some tomato tape. Works well for me. I don't like the idea of steel cages, I'm sure I'd be cut to bits in no time poking around the plants pinching off suckers etc.

See post.
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32102

[Kisal]

I don't understand what you mean by the "best" method of supporting a tomato plant. There are a number of equally good ways to do it. Try different ones and decide which you prefer. Every plant will be a little different, so the way you choose to support each one may vary, as well.

[Sani]

I'm really happy with a single bamboo stake for each plant,and tying with the twisty green wires I always find at garden stores. I think this method is good if you enjoy and do not mind the constant tying and tweaking.

[Imperialboy]

I find that this looks good
https://veggie-might-sp8.blogspot.com/search/label/HINTS%20AND%20TIPS

then if need you can add an extra wire cage too

[TZ -OH6]

This is a system I have seen used effectively.

Take two ring cages and a stake (optional). Flip one ring cage over and wire it on top of the other to add height. The stake in the bucket will add support to keep the cage more stable and may not be needed. You will still have to do some tieing up of the vines because of the size of the openings.

I use a single stake in the bucket and prune. The bigger the plant the harder it is to keep up with watering etc in a 5 gal pot so pruning works well for larger varieties.

[Imperialboy]

Looks like https://veggie-might-sp8.blogspot.com/search/label/HINTS%20AND%20TIPS is the best choice for me.

Here's my semi-shopping list for my next nursery visit:

• - Wooden Stakes (What do you guys recommend?) or Sani's Bamboo
  - And maybe use that self watering way
  - Home Depot $2 5 gallon (What do you guys recommend sizes? 15?)
  - Soil

Questions:

• 1. What soil do you guys usually use for seed starting? (I've been using store bought organic seed starting mix)
  2. What soil do you guys use for adult plants? (After the seed starting mix)
  3. Is the transplant from a 1 gallon to 5 gallon/15 gallon too big of a difference? (I plan on this.)
  4. How does the wiring work on this? https://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/SamhainP8/?action=view&current=1.jpg it looks like holes were drilled, but if you look here: https://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/SamhainP8/?action=view&current=BucketFinished.jpg nothing.
  5. How do you attach the cage to the container like that? I think this is what TZ is saying as well with the ring cages? https://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/SamhainP8/?action=view&current=Trellis.jpg

[Imperialboy]

Looks like https://veggie-might-sp8.blogspot.com/search/label/HINTS%20AND%20TIPS is the best choice for me.

Here's my semi-shopping list for my next nursery visit:

• - Wooden Stakes (What do you guys recommend?) or Sani's Bamboo
  - And maybe use that self watering way
  - Home Depot $2 5 gallon (What do you guys recommend sizes? 15?)
  - Soil

Questions:

• 1. What soil do you guys usually use for seed starting? (I've been using store bought organic seed starting mix)
  2. What soil do you guys use for adult plants? (After the seed starting mix)
  3. Is the transplant from a 1 gallon to 5 gallon/15 gallon too big of a difference? (I plan on this.)
  4. How does the wiring work on this? https://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/SamhainP8/?action=view&current=1.jpg it looks like holes were drilled, but if you look here: https://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/SamhainP8/?action=view&current=BucketFinished.jpg nothing.
  5. How do you attach the cage to the container like that? I think this is what TZ is saying as well with the ring cages? https://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/SamhainP8/?action=view&current=Trellis.jpg

Any suggestions?
Think I might use 15 gallons instead of 5 gallons. Would a transplant jump from 1 gallon to 15 gallon afterwards be too much of a difference? Or doesn't matter.

Thanks
For container soil, some recommend 3 part potting mix, 1 part perlite, 2 part bark fine? Maybe add some blood and bone in there? I'm not good with soil and would prefer to buy premixed ones tho.

[applestar]

Since my transplants jump from 4" pots to the great outdoors, I don't think it'll matter.

I'm dying to see photos of what you build/setup.

[Imperialboy]

Would a homemade Earthtainer be a good alternative to 15 gallon?

Great. I'm getting excited! Soon be starting soon when I have time.
Question about soil: This is old years soil. Dunno how it is. Should I use?
Or should I just buy new soil? Yes I just ducted taped it, and threw it into the shed...

3 pots of soil I just left outside.
[img]https://i51.tinypic.com/zxta37.jpg[/img]

The leftovers
[img]https://i51.tinypic.com/1smxj7.jpg[/img]

Seed Starting Mix
[img]https://i51.tinypic.com/2jcsac.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i53.tinypic.com/n140ld.jpg[/img]

Potting Mix
[img]https://i52.tinypic.com/riuluv.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i53.tinypic.com/35i7guu.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i55.tinypic.com/2emde8y.jpg[/img]

Still want these answered please!
Questions:

• 1. What soil do you guys usually use for seed starting? (I've been using store bought organic seed starting mix)
  2. What soil do you guys use for adult plants? (After the seed starting mix)
  3. Is the transplant from a 1 gallon to 5 gallon/15 gallon too big of a difference? (I plan on this.)
  4. How does the wiring work on this? https://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/SamhainP8/?action=view&current=1.jpg it looks like holes were drilled, but if you look here: https://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/SamhainP8/?action=view&current=BucketFinished.jpg nothing.
  5. How do you attach the cage to the container like that? I think this is what TZ is saying as well with the ring cages? https://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/SamhainP8/?action=view&current=Trellis.jpg

[Duh_Vinci]

...

• 1. What soil do you guys usually use for seed starting? (I've been using store bought organic seed starting mix)
  2. What soil do you guys use for adult plants? (After the seed starting mix)...

I think you will find that the formulas and favorite soil mix brand/recipes are so numerous! And in reality, I think that just about any soil-less seed starting mix, in combination with appropriate amount of moisture and favorable temperature work perfectly fine! Some starting mixes are finer than others, some easier to get moisten and keep moisture a little better... And what you bought should work just fine

But since you are asking what others use, I personally, I prefer Espoma organic mix, I do believe that their Mico-Tone (with micorrhizae) has very positive effect on seedlings vigor and rood development. I also add worm castings to this seed starting mix to provide additional nutrients that in my observation make very noticeable impact on the size and growth rate of the seedlings and their root system. Again, this is my personal preference.

Potting up the seedlings (before transplanting them into the garden or containers), I like to use Espoma Potting Mix, but I do add sand and mushroom compost to make the mix a bit more denser, and still add worm castings as well.

Containers - again, there are as many preferred mixes as gardeners themselves (or just about). I personally find that Sta-Green, specially the blue packaged, mixed with addition of mushroom compost, worm casting, lime and home made compost and extra vermiculite works just fine. And I do re-use the potting soil.

At the end of the season, place all the container used soil in compost bin, and add organic matter throughout the fall/winter, then at the planting time, just adding more mushroom compost and home made compost and lime again.

Regards,
D

[Imperialboy]

So those photos of the soil mixes I've used before would work?
Could I use the seed starting mix, transplant to 4". Then switch to the Black Gold one when transplanting to 1 gallon? Then just use that till adult containers.

[Duh_Vinci]

Sure, I don't see why not...

The only thing I would keep in mind, that most seed starting mixes (possibly the one you pictured as well) are likely NOT to have any nutrients at all. And with that in mind, once the seedlings are with the second set of true leafs, will need some nutrient supplement to give them a "boost", otherwise, they will likely to be very slow at growing.

Transplanting into 1gal container, well, imo is an overkill... Any standard 6" pots would work just fine until final transplant. Saves you the potting mix, space and makes it soooo much easier to transplant the seedlings from 6" to your large container.

As for container construction - SP8 would probably the best to answer you question on construction/cage attachment. He's been doing it for quite some time and with great success.

My containers are simple 10 and 18gal Walmart silver tubs with cheap Walmart cages attached directly to them at 3 points with zip ties. Makes it easy for me to remove the cages, and empty the soil at the end of the season:

[img]https://drphotography.smugmug.com/photos/826180821_YLuMU-O.jpg[/img]

I don't grow any huge indeterminate varieties in containers, they just do so much better in the garden, so mostly determinates, semideterminates and compact indeterminates for my buckets, and mostly for the early harvesting. And that simple setup works well for me.

Regards,
D

[Imperialboy]

Thanks D
SP8 hasn't been on for awhile. I've referred to him in the first page. I might try his staking/ self watering system with 15 gallons.

So 15 gallons with SP8 method. Then 31 Gallon w/ EarthTainer. It might seem unrealistic now due to the cost of the containers. (Wait for Lowe's/Home Depot coupons

I grow containers mainly, not as a side to the garden.
So for seed starting mix, you'll recommend something like I have pictured + worm castings? Then when transplanting to 4" use potting mix + sand mushroom compost + worm casting + maybe blood/bone? Then transplant again to 1 gallon? Then after that, switch to another mix? Add compost/casting/blood&bone/vermiculite?

I already have the 1 gallon pots from last year and before. I guess I'll just fill up the 4" pots and the rest go into 1 gallon. Then after that, they all go into their adult containers. How many seeds do you put per in the seedling trays? 3? Do you know the disinfect/bleach technique for cleaning old pots?

Confusing. I'm still considered new. My tomato plants from before never yielded well, never grew well. Trying to grow well this year.

I think I'll just use your soil mix. Since you responded and I want to get ready to head to the nursery with a shopping list.

[Duh_Vinci]

Imperial,

I'll try to list step by step what I'd do for containers (considering what you have posted in the pictures), starting with seeds... Again, there are so many different ways, and overtime, you will find what works best for you. And others will chime in as well, it's still winter

1. Seeds: 1-2 seeds per cavity, 2-3 cavity per variety, but I usually keep only 2 seedlings of each (rest are given away) until transplant, then, rest of the seedlings are given away about 1 week later...

2. Seed starting mix: Any sterile seed starting mix - 3 parts of the mix, 1 part of worm casting

3. Transplanting to 4" pots: Same mix as for seed starting (3:1) plus 1 part of sand. After 2nd set of true leafs are good size (or 2 weeks after transplanted), mild, 1/2 strength of balanced fish based fertilizer (3:3:3 or something like that) every other week

4. 1 gal containers (since that is what you are using), 3 parts of your Black Gold mix, 1 part of Mushroom Compost, 1 part of your own compost if you have it, 1 part of sand, 1 part of Vermiculite, 1 part of Perlite, some worm castings.

5. Final container transplant - should really be the same mix as your 1 gal mix. Fertilizer - well, depends on your personal preference. I add hand full of Bone meal, hand full of Tomatotone, and a hand full of lime to the planting hole. Then, every 3 weeks I use same fish based balanced fertilizer and 1/2 tbsp of molasses for every 2 gal of fertilizer mix

Hope this helps, and you will eventually find the mixes that work well for you and your climate/garden.

Regards,
D

[Imperialboy]

So this is my soil shopping list
Seed Starting Mix
Worm Castings
Sand
Fish Fertilizer
Potting Mix
Mushroom Compost
Vermiculite
Perlite
Blood and Bone

Anything I miss? For step4. You use same mix + sand + fish fertilizer. How much fertilizer for a 1 gallon pot?

How much would this cost and how do these sell at the nursery? Is the compost, vermiculite gonna be in different bags? Seems costly and I gonna have to mix pot by pot since I don't have a wheelbarrow or something to mix in.

So that's the soil.
Then I need new seeds and pots. 15 gallon pots, stakes (SP8 method)
31 gallon rubbermaid + materials = earthtainer

Can I use the same soil mixes for herbs I'll grow?
I know Japanese Maples will prob need something else tho if I'm going to try them...

[Duh_Vinci]

How much fertilizer for a 1 gallon pot? - Directions will be on the fertilizer when you buy it, and use 1/2 strength as I suggested.

Can I use the same soil mixes for herbs I'll grow? Yes

Now you got the list, go do some shopping and start planting! Have a good growing season in 2011!

Regards,
D

[Imperialboy]

Kk.

Seed Starting Mix
Worm Castings
Sand
1/2 Strength Fish Fertilizer
Potting Mix
Mushroom Compost
Vermiculite
Perlite
Blood and Bone

Gotta figure out the other supplies besides soil.
So in 10 minutes I did this:

[img]https://i54.tinypic.com/8zpbh4.jpg[/img]

Old seeds. Old soil. Old cells. New life.
I think they're 8. Sugar Sweeties. Just took the seed starting mix, put it in the cells, seeds in, sprinkle soil, mist, saran wrap. Done.

So I got soil checklist, need containers now and I'm good.
How long do you leave your lights on for? And how high/low?

[Imperialboy]

Checklist (To myself, To be added/editted by others)
Soil
Seed Starting Mix
Worm Castings
Sand
1/2 Strength Fish Fertilizer
Potting Mix
Mushroom Compost
Vermiculite
Perlite
Blood and Bone

Containers
(2) 31 Gallon Rubbermaid Containers
15 gallon Pots

Other
Wooden Stake or the Green Plastic Ones?
SEEDS!

....[/I][/u]

[Imperialboy]

Can someone answer these questions? Seems like SP8 is gone..

4. How does the wiring work on this? https://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/SamhainP8/?action=view&current=1.jpg it looks like holes were drilled, but if you look here: https://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/SamhainP8/?action=view&current=BucketFinished.jpg nothing.
5. How do you attach the cage to the container like that? I think this is what TZ is saying as well with the ring cages? https://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/SamhainP8/?action=view&current=Trellis.jpg

[TZ -OH6]

Looks like they put wires through the pot, but it would be more stable to wire the stake to the top lip of the pot, to the side instead of center.


The last one (cage on bucket) might be a poor design. Even if it were wired to the top of the bucket it would be a weak connection.

[Imperialboy]

Looks like they put wires through the pot, but it would be more stable to wire the stake to the top lip of the pot, to the side instead of center.


The last one (cage on bucket) might be a poor design. Even if it were wired to the top of the bucket it would be a weak connection.

Okay. How would you do the cage on the container one?
I'll be using this design on 5 gallon & 15 gallon pots.

Then regular staking methods in EarthTainers.

[TZ -OH6]

Three stakes (bamboo, PVC etc) in the bucket and bind the cage onto them. That would give you more height than having the cage down inside the bucket or the bucket inside the cage (both would be stable too). The stakes would not have to be as tall as the cage (if the cage is sturdy).

[Imperialboy]

So with the cage points that you'll normally stick into the dirt, you wrap those around the stakes?

If you are using this method could you post a photo? Thanks

[Imperialboy]

Alright! Heading out this tmmrw or sometime this week hopefully.
Gonna get

EarthTainer Parts (Gonna start with 1 or 2. If my plants work well/ system works well, I'll try to make more) Cost $40-50 to make one

5 gallon pots and 15 gallon pots
Seed Starting Cells, Trays
Seeds
Water Storage Crystals
Stakes
FERTILIZER: Blood/bone, fish fertilizer, dolo. lime, tomatotone
SOIL: worm castings, seed starting, potting mix, mushroom compost, sand, vermiculite, perlite

That's it for now.
Also gonna start herbs and hopefully Japanese Maples if I can get ahold of some.

[TZ -OH6]

Just tie the stakes to the side of the cage so it can't tip. any material can be used (twine, wire, cable ties, duct tape etc). I would probably make the stakes at least half the height of the cage and tie them off to the cage towards the top of the stakes. The arrangement should be fairly stable and not really NEED to be tied together.

[Imperialboy]

Alright. Then if I need I can flip over another cafe to add height.

[tedln]

When I grew tomatoes in containers, I always used plastic pots because they don't lose as much moisture through the walls as clay pots. With plastic pots, I drilled four holes, evenly spaced, near the top edge around the pot. I would bend the tips of each tomato cage leg up to prevent it punching through the bottom of the pot and sit it into the pot bending the legs outward to contact the sides of the pot. I would then attach four wires to the lowest rung or ring on the cage and insert the opposite end of the wires through the four holes. I put a round metal washer on each wire pulling the wires tightly until the cage was perfectly vertical in the center of the pot. The washers prevent the wires from pulling back through the holes. I then filled my pots with soil.

With the clay pots, I would measure the bottom of the pot and cut a ring out of metal or thick plastic that fits snugly in the bottom of the pot. I would then drill four, evenly spaced holes into the ring near the outer edge and insert the legs of a tomato cage into the holes. After insertion, I would bend each leg over about one inch below the ring. Insert the ring with the cage legs attached and fill the pot with soil. The weight of the soil on top of the ring should prevent the legs from pulling out.

If my tomatoes would grow tall, I often inverted a second tomato cage onto the top of the first tomato cage and wired it in place. By doing that, I usually had enough height to grow cucumbers in the same pots with my tomatoes.

Good Luck

Ted

[Imperialboy]

When I grew tomatoes in containers, I always used plastic pots because they don't lose as much moisture through the walls as clay pots. With plastic pots, I drilled four holes, evenly spaced, near the top edge around the pot. I would bend the tips of each tomato cage leg up to prevent it punching through the bottom of the pot and sit it into the pot bending the legs outward to contact the sides of the pot. I would then attach four wires to the lowest rung or ring on the cage and insert the opposite end of the wires through the four holes. I put a round metal washer on each wire pulling the wires tightly until the cage was perfectly vertical in the center of the pot. The washers prevent the wires from pulling back through the holes. I then filled my pots with soil.

With the clay pots, I would measure the bottom of the pot and cut a ring out of metal or thick plastic that fits snugly in the bottom of the pot. I would then drill four, evenly spaced holes into the ring near the outer edge and insert the legs of a tomato cage into the holes. After insertion, I would bend each leg over about one inch below the ring. Insert the ring with the cage legs attached and fill the pot with soil. The weight of the soil on top of the ring should prevent the legs from pulling out.

If my tomatoes would grow tall, I often inverted a second tomato cage onto the top of the first tomato cage and wired it in place. By doing that, I usually had enough height to grow cucumbers in the same pots with my tomatoes.

Good Luck

Ted

Thanks Ted!
Any photos for how you drill? Might need a small visual example.

[tedln]

I was a container gardener before we had internet gardening forums. I never took any "how to" photos because I didn't have anyone to show them to. I will try to explain it as well as my limited vocabulary will allow.

I always chose wide pots because they provided a better anchor to prevent them tipping over in high winds when the tomatoes were tall. I typically used fifteen gallon plastic horse feed tubs bought at the local farm and ranch store for about $10.00 each. I would measure across the tub to determine the diameter and then multiply the diameter by pi (22/7) to determine the pot circumference. I would divide the circumference by four to determine the spacing for the four holes. I normally used a 1/8" drill bit in a power hand drill to drill the holes at the spacing marked with a magic marker about one inch below the lip of the pot. I always used stainless steel, electric fencing; wire because it is cheap in rolls (I've had my current roll of wire about ten years and use it for everything in the garden). It will never rust. It is very strong.

I hope that answers your question. If it doesn't, then just keep asking and I will continue answering.

Good luck.

Ted

[Imperialboy]

kk. Think I asked the question wrong. Spacing the holes I understand.
With the wires I don't get it with the bending goes through and such. And is this with the $2-3 tomato cages or rolls of CRW ?

[Imperialboy]

kk. Think I asked the question wrong. Spacing the holes I understand.
With the wires I don't get it with the bending goes through and such.
If it's electric fencing what size should I buy or look for?

[DoubleDogFarm]

[img]https://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h300/eric_wa/Topbmp-2.jpg[/img]


Ted, Is this what you are talking about?

Eric

[tedln]

That is the idea Eric. Thank you! I don't think the electric fence wire comes in different sizes. It's real thin wire, probably 1/32" thick. It doesn't have to be thick because it is the electrical shock that keeps the cattle inside the fence, not the thickness or strength of the wire.

The farmers in Africa use the same wire to fence in their crops to keep the wild animals out of the farm. Elephants have learned to pick one member of the herd and push that unlucky member through the fence and then they can all go in and munch away on the farmers crop.

Ted

[tedln]

Imperialboy,

I'm not an artist so I can't give you a drawing like Eric provided so I will try to describe it.

Clay Pots with ring in the bottom.

Imagine drilling three or four holes in the ring (depending on how many legs the cages have) evenly spaced. Drill the holes large enough for the legs to go through and extend through the holes about 1". Bend each leg extension into an L shape below the ring to prevent the legs from pulling out of the drilled holes.

If the clay pots are small and possibly will not have enough soil to hold the rings down in the bottom, you can also use a masonry drill bit and drill a few extra drain holes in bottom of the pot. Place a cage leg through each hole and place a large flat washer over each leg up against the pot. Bend each leg into an L below the washer. The purpose of the washer is to distribute the pressure from each leg over a larger area reducing the possibility of breaking the pot. The pot will then be sitting on top of the bent legs and large washers.

Plastic Pots

Bend each leg of the cage straight up (about 1" long) to form a round shape on the bottom of each leg instead of the sharp point they normally have. If you choose, you can even wrap plastic electrical tape thickly around the bottom of each leg to provide more cushion between the legs and the pot.This prevents the legs from punching through the bottom of the plastic pots as you apply pressure with the tie down wires and weight of the tomato plants. Bend each leg outwards to contact the pot sides at the inside bottom of the pot for stability. A pair of long handled pliers works well because the fencing wire and cage legs are soft metal.

Ted