TZ -OH6
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I highly recommend a solid overhead horizontal support for droplines such as a 1x2 or 2x2 board or metal electrical conduit pipe. In the old days my mom used droplines from a rope for unpruned plants (results were not pretty), and I tried droplines from an overhead cable this year (for single vine pruned plants), but it was immediately apparent that the weight distribution would cause the cable to sag and other odd things to happen so I ran out and got conduit. Instead of rope droplines you can use thin bamboo stakes as a substitute (or those green plastic/metal things the sell as tomato stakes) but you still need the top horizontal support to keep the stakes upright when the weight of fruit builds up.

Sani
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how can I hang the rope if the pool has a very high double story ceiling?

bamboo stakes are doing their job for now, I'm worried once I get fruit that the vines will break. can something be used with the bamboo stakes to prevent that? I'm very intimidated by tomato support methods, they seem complicated :c

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applestar
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With indoor containers, it's not so much vines breaking that you need to worry about, but the containers falling over once the plants start getting top-heavy.

You could group the containers -- 3 or 4 touching each other, then either bend the tops of the bamboo together into a torchier/tee-pee shape if they're flexible enough, or connect them together with short cross pieces (like ladders). Wire or tie the containers together or drill holes near the top and bolt them together to form a single secure base?

I'm trying to think of ways that you can still rotate the containers for even sun exposure.

tedln
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Your pool room probably has a flat, slightly angled roof supported by steel girders with holes in them. You probably also have light fixtures hanging from the girders. The bulbs in the light fixtures need to be changed occasionally. Use the same ladder you use when changing the bulbs and hang a couple of strong ropes from the girders. Use those ropes to support or hang a board like TZ described and hang the drop ropes from the board. The bottoms of the drop lines don't need to be attached to anything. That will allow you to move your pots around a little even after you have started tying the tomato vines to the drop lines. Space the drop lines about twenty four inches apart.

Ted

Heron's Nest Farm
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Would using drop down cable lines work for Branywines? They are so heavy!
I need to figure it out quick. We are putting in 100 Brandywines, 100 Romas, and 100 San Marzanos!

tedln
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I don't know what "cable line" is unless you are talking about coaxial cable for television signal transmission or twisted wire cable. The answer for both of those is no. The coated cables surface is too slick and the vines will simply slide down the support. The twisted wire cable would probably be so heavy you need additional upright support simply to hold them up.

My suggestion is a cotton or polyester woven (not twisted) string or rope. 1/4" thick is the best size, but slightly smaller is okay. You can use even smaller and it would be strong enough to hold the vines up, but as the vines move in a breeze or wind, the smaller diameter has a tendency to have a sawing motion cutting into the vines damaging them.

I followed your link to your blog. It is nice, but it also raises a question in my mind. Since you are just wrapping up work on your green house, are you planning on putting a total of 300 tomato vines on string supports in the green house? The green house is way to small for 300 full sized plants and the single ridge pole and hoops will never support that much weight.

Just curious!

Good Luck

Ted

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swickstrum
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I think I'm learning that gardeners are mini-Macgyvers! :)

After reading all of these posts it seems like a lot of people are creating their own ways of supporting their tomato plants. I'm hoping to try a few of them and see how successful each one is. I guess that's the benefit of being a newbie, the joys of experimentation. :shock:

billtyus
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tedln wrote:
1947jd wrote:Great ideas - everyone should be to find an appropriate method for their own needs.

I use 4' high stock fencing - a $50 roll is plenty for a dozen or more long-lasting cages. The wire is relatively easy to cut and work with; once the cages are assembled, I cut "access windows" into the sides as the plants grow to make weeding and harvesting quick and easy. Rather than trying to find space to store the cages from year to year, I lay them on their sides in the garden as part of my fall/winter cat-proofing system.
Thats the same material I've always used for my cucumber trellis access holes included.

[img]https://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll308/tedln/2009%20Garden/IMG_1703.jpg[/img]

and my bean trellis.

[img]https://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll308/tedln/2009%20Garden/IMG_1646.jpg[/img]

It just never seemed to have the structural strength of the CRW for supporting large tomato plants.

Ted


I notice all raised bedswith wire.I usually use cages 3 or 4 ring or stock fencing and make my own cages.cutting 4x8 sections out to be able to weed,trim,and water.I keep all tomato plants trimmed to get mass fruit production before the heat arrives in florida..on tomatoes I leave about 3 or 4 main branches and trim all others except for the fruit bearing ones.since our heat arrives way to quickly I ferlize every 7 days to get my plants to produce up to 3 weeks earlier.but with my cages or ring cages I usually don't have a problem with them because I keep them triimmed so you don't have to worry about the plant weight.then you get to pick alot of fruit from your tomato plants soon and often..but for beans I use 12 ft boards and stock wire to allow them to vine upward and sideways,never had a problem with this method.but it does get windy her also.so I usually put my tall plants on the outside the the squash and zucs inside so the other plants block alot of the wind and they suffer as litttle damage as possible.... :D I also use russian mammoth sunflowers to take the wind effects from my produce, I build a wall with them it works great
since these flower grow 8 to 12 feet tall...but it always helps to drive stakes in the ground on the bottom of your stock wire cages this will stop high winds from knocking stuff over....since I have done the little trick I don't lose may plants due to high winds.. :D hopefully this will help with your wind problems

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Tilde
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For container growing indeterminates in large, low, 18" pots, I stared with small tomato cages and worked my way up to bigger ones. Used a couple of large stakes in each pot to tie the cages to (then I didn't need to push the cage into the dirt, giving me another foot).

For the lanky tomatoes, I took bits of bamboo and crossed them between the plants as they got taller, building a bit of a "floor" on each.

Doing the tomatoes in milk crates this fall - on a raised table. A neighbor just cleaned out a boatload of bamboo, cut into very handy 6 foot long stakes. I think I'll do some scavenging tonight ...

The plan for the milk crates this fall was going to be stakes at all four corners of each pot (zipties) and then weave in some heavy twine.

Now that I might have some tougher bamboo (it looks like the poles are 2" wide!) I might do something different ...

dustyrivergardens
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wow a lot of great ideas good job I usually use the concrete wire. :idea:[img]https://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj163/hunt-john/gardening/IMG_1666.jpg[/img][/url]

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gixxerific
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dustyrivergardens wrote:wow a lot of great ideas good job I usually use the concrete wire. :idea:[img]https://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj163/hunt-john/gardening/IMG_1666.jpg[/img][/url]
I can't tell, is that 2 rows close together sandwiching the plants? Or two separate rows of wire?

dustyrivergardens
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Yes two sets of concrete wires sandwiching in the tomatoes. And there are two rows of tomatoes. planted a little to close but they did extremely well.[img]https://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj163/hunt-john/gardening/IMG_1593.jpg[/img]
This is how it started. lol

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gixxerific
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Thanks I use CRW cages and stakes. That is a good idea of yours to run two rows of fencing to keep them going vertical.

I tried the Florida weave (or whatever you want to call it) but my stakes were not strong enough and I didn't take care of it like I should have. I am thinking maybe cattle panel or straight rows of CRW this year. I need something easy that I don't have to mess with too much. I am going to have a lot of tomatoes this year.
Last edited by gixxerific on Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dustyrivergardens
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Sounds like a great plan...Keep it simple stupid is one of my greatest beliefs.

tedln
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DustyRiver,

I read your blog and love your garden. Beautiful job.

Ted

dustyrivergardens
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Thanks you so very much I enjoy working on my blog. you guys here are really good I sure enjoy talking turkey with folks of your caliber...

george24
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I have gotten the best results from 16' long cattle panels that I tie wrap to T post. My raised beds are 20' long so I take bolt cutters and cut one panel into 4' lengths to hook to the 16'. I put the panel about a foot up from the ground and tie wrap it to the T post. I have a T post on each end, one where the 4' section hooks on and one in the middle of the 16' section. I take baling twine and tie it to the end T post and weave it in and out of the panel until I reach the other end of the row. But you can also just tie up two plants at a time to the panel whatever works best for you. Do this about every foot up the vine and it will hold them just fine. Cattle panels cost about $20 - $25 a panel and that figures out to about $25 for a 20' row of support and it is stronger than concrete wire and it doesn't rust. I plant 12 - 13 tomato plants in the 20' row so to me that's fairly cheap support and it works great.

OrganicTexasMama
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My container tomatoes didn't fare too well, last year, and so my minimal trellis from the hardware store was more than enough. This year, I have three different heirlooms that are growing like crazy, quickly outgrowing everything I can come up with from whatever was leftover last year. I've saved out the cucumber net I made last year, in hopes of planting cukes yet this year, but otherwise I'm pretty well out of materials, with branches threatening to break and plants leaning precariously. :/

With the cukes, I took 4 bamboo poles, roughly in "corners" of the (round) pot, then tied a net around it as tautly as possible. The cukes climbed beautifully with just a little encouragement.

Can I do something similar with the tomatoes? Two pots are near each other and the other is on the far side of the patio, so I'm not sure that any one "big" system will work. What if I get fairly sturdy stakes (more sturdy than the bamboo), and then weave some sort of cording around to make a net? Or just buy the net?

I'm thrilled with how well they're doing but also rather overwhelmed with trying to keep up with them! They Purple Russian is nearing my height (albeit in a pot), and I have no idea when it will stop!

Thanks!

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rainbowgardener
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The trouble is, it is hard to anchor stakes very well in a container. If your containers sit on dirt, then you can get very tall stakes and put them outside the container, next to it, in the dirt and use the cording around them. Otherwise it will be a task for continuing ingenuity.. :)

But re: They Purple Russian is nearing my height (albeit in a pot), and I have no idea when it will stop!

You can encourage it to stop, or at least slow down a lot, just by pinching/ clipping out all the growing tips. That helps encourage the plant to think about making tomatoes instead of just growing taller. And don't keep feeding them nitrogen, which encourages big leafy plant growth at the expense of tomato production.

OrganicTexasMama
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Thanks! I think I may start pinching the tips. It's SO BIG. It's very full and just sprawling, now, especially without proper support. There are at least a dozen fruit set on it, now, with many more flowers, so I'm hopeful we'll get a good harvest despite having started late in the season.

(And while slightly off-topic on this thread, I haven't fertilized since planting with an organic granular from a local garden shop. I should go post about what else to do for them!)

They are all on my patio, so not really any dirt to drive stakes into. :/ I have had a strange notion to use the big A-frame ladder we have (well, it's probably 6-8 feet tall) as a support of some sort. I'm not even sure how that would work... Though I'm also getting worried about all of the birds around come ripening time. (I'm having an abysmal time with strawberries due to some sort of critter, which may not be birds, but puts me on alert.) So I need something that will both allow support of the plant and the trusses as they get heavy, as well as something to allow some good netting to keep birds away. All on a patio. :/

pow wow
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Believe it or not but this actually works quite well for me and my toms.lol Making do with whatever I have in my shed.
[img]https://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac192/JohnCm_bucket/004-4.jpg[/img]

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gixxerific
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Just do what you do.

I have some pretty crazy setups a lot. Same thing here I use what I have and make it work. Though I do construction so I'm always looking out for that something in the dumpster that is perfectly fine to use just on it's way to a landfill. :x :)

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PunkRotten
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Here is what I use now for all my tomatoes and it works really well. It is just two U-posts driven into the ground about a foot. I plant the tomato plnt in between them. And then I weave twine/string around them every foot or so. Any branches that get heavy I tie string to them and tie it back to one of the posts and they get supported just fine.

[img]https://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/punkrotten/942_3466.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/punkrotten/942_3467.jpg[/img]

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lakngulf
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george24 wrote:I have gotten the best results from 16' long cattle panels that I tie wrap to T post.
This year I am preparing some land at the farm/hunting land to have a small garden. I retire April Fool's Day so I will have time to water and take care of some plants there (1.5 hours from home).

I plan to have a long row of tomatoes (I just love to grow them). I have thought about using the cattle panels, but do not want to go through the process of tying the plants on. Nor do I want to have much to do when the plants are dead. Here is my thought. Any possiblity of working?

Plant the tomatoes in rows running north/south. Place the cattle panels at an angle over the plants. One end of panel supported on ground, T posts for upper end. Let the plants grow thru the panel, and then just train the new growth to lay on the slanted panel.

Dillbert
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I'm not sure all the methods of supporting tomatoes have yet been invented (g) - there's a number . . .

I do agree tying the plants to a vertical stake is likely the most labor intensive plus the stakes need plenty of support themselves - I've seen whole patches blown over/down by the wind.

the cattle panels are basically "pre made" trellis - the grid spacing is large - which makes winding the plants through the trellis easier, plus at the end of season, you can snip the stems with garden shears pretty quick / easy to strip them off the panel. rotating tomatoes spot to spot means moving the end/support posts.

my personal fav are the spiral tomato stakes - which I set up in tripod fashion so they support each other. available in plastic, aluminum and steel (typically flash galvanized) I don't recommend plastic or aluminum - they can't take the weight of the vines/fruit. downside is: they're relatively expensive, upside to the downside - they last forever. I've used mine every season since 1986 and they show no signs of wearing out.
looks like:
https://www.leevalley.com/us/garden/page ... 3319,33282
not usually available at retail / big box stores.

note: you will see lots of pretty pix with these spiral stakes "free standing" - that works for the pix where the tomato plant is only half way up the stake. at full-to-overflowing height - don't believe it - the spiral stakes will bend under the wind load - they need "lateral" support - which is why I put mine up in a 'tripod' arrangement.

another generalized option is horizontal trellising - couple decades back when ladders were made of wood and at some point got past their trustworthy safety life, , , chop up a (wooden) ladder, situation horizontally, lead the tomato plant along the length. interweaving not essential, fruit hangs down, no/less sun scald, etc etc. used 'free for the taking' wooden ladders are a lot harder to find now-a-days - but constructing a wooden 'ladder trellis' is not a meister-work of carpentry.
downside - difficult to store 'indoors' in the off-season (unless you have a barn...) and useful life is 5-8 years before some bits rot away and break. also note this method requires more square feet / area - may or not be an issue, per individual situation.

other techniques to vertical staking exist - the "box" - four stakes with strings, etc.

all involve pounding something into the ground.

one idea I've considered - but never executed as my steel spirals are working just peachy-keen - is freestanding tripod of 2x3's with nailed on horizontal slats. the tripod arrangement should resist wind forces and being wood there is some mass to hold them down.

684
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I would like to ask everyone's opinion on a common support method, I'm going to post a poll in a separate thread, but might get the opinions I need here as well. I traded a local business owner/friend of mine and acquired a roll of 5' tall, 150' long roll of concrete reinforcement wire. I have lots of tall treated 4x4's as well as 6' T-posts at my disposal. Right now, I'm leaning toward driving in the T-Posts at whatever distance necessary to support the wire fence/trellis. I will wire tie the fence about a foot off the ground. This makes it easier to access the base of the plants for weeding and applying nitrogen.

My question is: How would you construct the fence? I can do a single row of fence 150' long (I have plenty of space) and plant the tomatoes directly under it. I'm thinking this method would require more maintenance as far as weaving new growth into the fence. But this would get me 150 linear feet of plantings. Another way is to cut the fence in half and have (2) 75' lengths. I would hang the fence in two parallel rows about 1.5' apart, and plant the tomatoes in the center of the two fences. This would offer more support with far less weaving needed. This would give me 75 linear feet of tomato plants. The final option is to cut the fence in three equal 50' sections and hang them in 3 parallel lines with about 1.5' between each section, leaving (2) 50' long planting rows in between. The plants would obviously both use the center section for support and grow into each other a bit, but the tomatoes would still be easily accessible for harvest. This method would give me 100 linear feet of tomato plants.

Which method would you all choose? I love having options, and hearing others' opinions.

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ElizabethB
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Just a thought - I use old stockings to tie my plants. A figure 8 does very well. Soft easy ties.

dustyrivergardens
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old stockings work great. They are very gentle on the plant.

sepeters
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what a great list and helpful support methods from the comments as well! This definitely helps!

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ElizabethB
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I am so impressed by all of your wonderful ideas. I keep it simple. I grow indeterminate tomatoes. G has welded upside down U shaped frames that just fit inside the back of my 4' boxes. I run twine down and train my tomatoes and cucumbers up the twine. I do pinch the suckers. Lots of produce and not a lot of space taken up.

My 2 cents.

MaxG
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As I've seen in some of the other posts on this topic, I too am a fan of using cattle and livestock panels to support tomatoes and a variety of other plants, including some, such as watermelons, you often don't associate with growing on a trellis. The panels are galvanized, and after years of use remain in very good condition.

Here are a couple of pictures of used cattle panels repurposed from their original use as part of a horse corral. Years of whatever abuse the horses dished out on them resulted in some kinks and bending, but they still function fine as plant supports.

Two parallel panels used as a tomato cage:
finished_panel.jpg
One panel set up as an arch trellis growing Crane melons.
crane-melons-480.jpg
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dtizme
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After reading into it a bit I think I am going to go with gixx method of Concrete reinforcing wire cages. I was reading in other places where these things basically last forever. They seem by far the most solid method of caging your tomatoes with a little bit of effort. It will cost a bit initally but they will last forever and are very solid.

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gixxerific
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dtizme yes I believe after the initial work of putting them together CRW cages are the easiest pretty much plant and forget. I picked up an almost full roll off a job, I will be making more cages this winter. I believe I said go 12 squares using number 12 as the tie but I will be making them a bit bigger next time. maybe a full 12 squares with 13 as the tie. I will have to see what they look like.

Good luck and remember CRW can be unforgiving when rolling out, so be cautious. Wear gloves

dtizme
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The CRW I am getting is precut into 8 X 4 foot sections which will wind up being 8 squares high by 16 wide. 12 X 12 sounds like a nice size for me but I don't have that option So I figure I should have about a 2-2 and a half foot diameter circle by 4 feet high. should be more than enough for me. I'll let everyone know the exact size once I put 1 together. I think they are approximately $10 a section but my uncle works at a lumber store so he is going to hook me up with a few.

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gixxerific
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Just measured one at random that was 11 squares it was 22 3/8".

ChrisC_77
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I use stakes that I made out scrape fence boards. This year, I am tying my tomatoes to the stakes with strips of plastic grocery bags. Another cost free method.
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Lindsaylew82
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I used to use wooden stakes, but the earth in my garden is rich and lends large bushy plants that at as a "sail" in the wind. A few years ago, I had to re-stake SEVERAL times. I think I have a pic... This is the first big storm we had that year. 2011.

Image

Image

Some of these plants had 3-4 stakes. Most plants had at least 2 stakes. This was they year I threw up my hand and got something more permanent. We got 12 foot rebar and cut them in half. We should have bought 10 foot and kept them solid! Plants are so tall this year! So far, I've been pretty happy with rebar.

My dream cage would be the CRW. But the amount I'd need would cost me dearly. It's VERY expensive! I can accommodate 20ish plants and that allows for generous spacing. If I cram it all in, I could double that, but it's crowded up top. Roots are still good. 40 plants=40 cages=too much dang money!

Rebar has worked real well for me!

lily51
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[quote="TZ -OH6"]I wish this forum had direct download for pictures. I do have some great pictures but I don't have an image account and don't plan on getting one. I'm on dail-up and can't even see most of the pictures other people post here because of download times from places like Imageshack.


I agree! Applestar if you can do this, it would be great! :D

Zintuplet
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Hey, I have let my vine grow along the ground, the leaves deep in the vine are turning yellow an dieing off. I'm not sure of the reason, it is hitting 40 degrees Celsius here nowdays. Could it be the underneath is not getting enough sun or too much or..? Should I create a support to allow more sun to the bottoms?

HoneyBerry
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MaxG: I love those cattle panel supports as shown in your photos. Nice job. I have been thinking about using cattle panels for some of my gardening. I think they are heavy to lift. That's the only thing that holds me back. I looked at some at the farm supply store and they were very heavy gauge metal. Nice for supporting melons etc, but heavy to lift.



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