Cherokee Purple and Black krim - updated with pictures...

[Duh_Vinci]

Hello all!

Finally, after 3 weeks of cherry varieties, my heirloom tomatoes starting to show color!!! But... How in the world can you tell when Cherokee Purple and Black Krim are ready color wise?

I've searched for photos online, and colors of the ripened fruit differs so much! Some photos obsequiously oversaturated (for commercial/sales purposes I guess?), but in reality, anyone care to share some photos of the actual ripe tomatoes of these varieties? I know the shoulders would remain greenish, but the color depth of the rest of the fruit - no clue!

Regards,
D

If you have photo of the Black Tula, will be happy to see that too, first one is starting to change color

[The Helpful Gardener]

Feel, smell... either of these is about as pretty as an old bruise when ripe... color is subjective, as I learned picking blueberries with a two year old the other day. His blue was not my blue...

As long as I can possibly wait has always worked for me...

HG

[Zofiava]

I have black Tula too, they are still very very green. I just keep hoping that they MAKE it to ripe. I would love to see a ripened one!

[Zofiava]

I don't know if you have seen this site, but it seems pretty accurate and un-enhanced.

https://www.tomatogrowers.com/black.htm

[hendi_alex]

I ordered 'cherokee chocolate' this year. I'm wondering if the wrong seeds were supplied as the fruit is striped when ripe and the tomato flesh is still green, even when the tomato is very soft ripe. I was expecting a pink to light purple fruit with a slow to ripen shoulder. Anyone have experience with this variety. Whatever I have is ever so tasty, with unique flavor very different from most of my big slicers. Oh yes this tomato is small to medium sized, perhaps 6-8 ounce fruits.

[img]https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3477/3719915109_401e1558df.jpg[/img]

[hendi_alex]

I just spent a little time looking at the Tomato Growers Supply site and am wondering if my packet of Cherokee Chocolate perhaps actually contained 'green zebra' seeds. Here is their site with a photo.

https://www.tomatogrowers.com/green.htm

[Kisal]

Those look like the Green Zebras I grew last year.

[hendi_alex]

What did you think of their flavor? The texture is a little soft but to me the flavor is delightfully different. Usually when doing a taste test, the flavors are only subtly different, but with texture and moisture very different. These 'green zebras'?? are the size of a large salad tomato, are very soft/moist, have green flesh when ripe, and have a fairly pronounced difference in flavor as compared to most large slicers of either heirloom or more modern varieties.

[Duh_Vinci]

Alex,

Certainly looks like the Green Zebra. Glad you find the taste on the positive side. I've got a little pack last week as a gift from someone, was not sure if it was going to make it to the garden next year, but I think it just might!

Zofiava,

Same here, deep green, striped shoulders and one finally starting to show some color, a few more days, can't wait! Though in my case, not as "highly productive" as described my many (and my soil is rather rich, even Brandywine has over 20 fruits on it and closing on 8' tall)

So here is an update on the colors, ripe indeed and very tasty (both), but different. Krim has a little more of a purple hue, kinda like Scott said, "bruise" color, green shoulders to various degrees on most.

Black Krim:

[img]https://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i230/duhvinci/2009_garden/07_14_2009_black_krim_2.jpg[/img]

And sliced:

[img]https://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i230/duhvinci/2009_garden/07_14_2009_black_krim.jpg[/img]

And with whole grain bread, sweet + purple basil and fresh mozzarella (tasty tasty tasty):

[img]https://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i230/duhvinci/2009_garden/07_14_2009_black_krim_1.jpg[/img]

While both tasted great, I personally prefer Cherokee Purple, both have complex flavor, both buttery smooth flash, but Cherokee has extra sweetness and almost smokiness that just lingers in the mouth for a while. Loved it!

Cherokee Purple (these guys didn't make it to the pictures in their sliced version, tasted so good, we just inhaled them)

[img]https://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i230/duhvinci/2009_garden/07_14_2009_cherokee_purple.jpg[/img]

EDIT: Few more of the Cherokee Purple, though this time took a pictures before inhaling these two (what a flavor!!!):

[img]https://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i230/duhvinci/2009_garden/07_14_2009_cherokee_purple_1.jpg[/img]

Got to love these beauties!!!


Since this is my first time ever growing tomatoes, I planted many varieties just to see what I like and what I don't. Both of these are going back in the garden next year, but will also add Cherokee Chocolate (Alex, hopefully you will get the right seeds next year?)

Impatiently waiting to taste the Black Tula and De Barao black!

Regards,
D

[The Helpful Gardener]

Lookin' good D! Really good...

HG

[Kisal]

Actually, I didn't care much for the flavor of the Green Zebras. I doubt I'll grow them again, but I won't say that absolutely. Last year was a bad year for tomatoes in my area. Few people had really good ones. In addition, a friend of mine planted my tomatoes as a "favor" for me, although I didn't ask him to. He's a fine gardener, but has no experience growing plants in containers, which is how I garden. He used heavy clay soil from my yard in the containers, instead of waiting for me to buy some potting mix. I couldn't tell he had used clay soil, because he topped off the containers with some potting mix that he found in the garden shed.

On top of that, he insisted on watering them for me, despite the fact that I told him I was watering them myself. To be brutally honest, it's nothing short of a miracle that the poor plants survived and bore the few fruits that they did!

I love my friends, and appreciate the kind things they do for me, but sometimes they drive me nuts!

[Duh_Vinci]

I have black Tula too, they are still very very green. I just keep hoping that they MAKE it to ripe. I would love to see a ripened one!

Zofiava, three are ripening as we speak, so I should be able to try them in the few days. I'll gladly post the pictures of the fruit!

Regards,
D

P.S. If you have never tried Cherokee Purple - you must! Never have I had such a buttery textured and such a rich flavored tomato. Had few more today, simply amazing fuit!!!

[applestar]

Okay, Duh_Vinci Adding Cherokee Purple to my list for next year.

I wish MY big ones will ripen. Just coloring up now, though I've been harvesting the little ones already (grown from grocery store Sugar Plums -- one with an elongated pear-like shape, the other more oval shape -- and a mystery volunteer that ripens at about 2" -- juicy and sweet/tart). There's a Principe Borghese (sun drying tomato), some Bellstars (sauce tomato), and a Moskvich (which was supposed to have matured FIRST) that's almost ready to pick. A cluster of Lyn's Mahogany Garnet (open pollinated cross of Green Zebra and Black Russian) is very dark green striped right now, and Valencia (orange colored tomato) is just starting to yellow. Various other volunteers around the garden in varying levels of of tomato-ness. One has fruits with flattened lobed shape that may have come from last year's Brandywine -- looking forward to that one.

[applestar]

Noticed these three Lyn's Mahogany Garnets showing some color today:
[img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image4571.jpg[/img] [img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image4572.jpg[/img]

[The Helpful Gardener]

AS, the plants look great. And I second DV's opining on 'Cherokee Purple'; it is the best tasting tomato out there. Pretty as a three day old bruise, but TASTY!

HG

[Zofiava]

YAY! I can't wait to hear about the Tulas! Mine are doing ok, I keep thinking I am seeing color on them, but no! Nice and stripey though!

I would love to hear what you all think of the taste! My husband is a very adventurous eater, but can't stand tomatoes! (WTH!?) so though I get more to myself, I'll have no one to compare tasting notes with.

[Duh_Vinci]

Applestar,

Glad you are considering it for next year. You will not be disappointed!!! As Scott mentioned, bruised looking thing, but that is what mother nature made it, no two fruit are ever the same (just the same wonderful taste)!

- Moskvich - that is who I am (my birth city) I've heard of it, but never tasted. My "Early girl", there is only one plant, much like your Mosvich, so much for 55 days! Just got it's first fruit to change a little color!

- Black Russian - wondering it is the same as "Black" from Russia? I have the seeds, but didn't want to push my luck with too many plants for the first garden. Would love to hear your thoughts once it is ripened!

- Valencia... Well, it appears to be "semi-determinate" in my garden, about the same as Black Tula, about 6' tall. Not as productive as I hoped for, but all fruit are large size so far. One finally started to show some color.

Now, for your Lyn's Mahogany - is it possible that it is the same as "black Zebra" variety? Look at the photo from tomatofest.com [url=https://store.tomatofest.com/PhotoGallery.asp?ProductCode=TF-0066]Black Zebra[/url]

Zofiava

Oh my, there is someone does not like tomatoes? Oh well, more for you! I would love to compare notes on the taste and habits of this one with you! As I'm sure, there are some variations of it across the country. For example:

Black Krim - many call it staple in their garden, with complex taste, and well balanced with hint of sweetness. Well, my Black Krim - while tasty, very much so, has almost no sweetness to the fruit.

So yes, most definitely, let's compare the notes on Black Tula! Going to wash my first two fruits, will post pics later!

Regards,
D.

P.S. Anyone with Black Krim - does your strain has a hint of sweetness?

[The Helpful Gardener]

That could be a pH thing, DV. Sweeter soils can give sweeter fruit. Thing is to raise ph we dump huge amounts of lime on soils that have lots of calcium already (buffers pH) but it's locked up in the clay content. Weak acid reactions from biological activity unlock it, particularly fungal interactions, but chemical fertilizers can knock back the biology to the extent that certain highly ionic elements (like calcium) lock up, and soils can get more acidic. Funny that it is so counterintuitive, as fungus tends towards and prefers acidity, but in higher calcium conditions that leads to more base soils. Took Dr, Ingham a half hour to walk me through it, but she told a story of a Californa farmer that was sending his soil to the State lab for tests for decades and they were telling him "Add a ton of lime per acre." He'd get a little bump but it would wander back to acidic and they would tell him the same thing every year. He finally went to her and after seeing how much calcium he had in his soil, she adding a highly fungal compost to his soil. By years end his low 5's soil was 6.5's across the board and he has not had to mess with it for years... it works. Has for millions of years. Chemicals? About a hundred years so far in the garden, and the early results aren't good...

So what I'm saying is, get a soil test. You don't know until you look. And secondly, add compost. It's always a good thing...

HG

[Duh_Vinci]

Scott,

Testing the soil - is something I definitely failed to do. What can I say - newbie! I did test the PH in the raised beds, but it was done 2 months after planting. It was about 5.7. And what did I do? Sure, I've added a little lime (liquid lime)...

I have 3 separate sections of the garden - raised beds, beside it - long single row of 8 tomato plants directly in the ground and another short strip of 5 tomato plants in the ground at the completely opposite end of the lot.

Raised beds, I mixed 50% of compost, 30% of peat moss and 20% of vermiculite.

Ground rows - I dug the holes, removed 80% of the clay, added mixture of 40% of compost, 40% of local native top soil, 10% vermiculite and 10% perlite. These rows - soil was never tested, even for PH...

What can I say, you live, you learn. And more I take care of the garden and watch the plants grow, observing their habbits and growth pattern, the more I'm beginning to understand what I did wrong and what I did right. And with terrific advise from everyone on this forum, I'm determined to have even better and healthier garden next year!

So far, based on my observations, plants in the ground - required much less maintenance and much less watering. Plants are shorter (but also planted 1 month later than the ones in the raised beds), and yet, bare just as much fruit as the tall tree monsters! Foliage is more robust, darker greener color too. But then again, I finally learned that more that 4 main stems on Heirlooms - is just too much, and results = smaller fruit in size.

I've also learned that I would never use the pine bark mulch (or any other wood chips mulch) While I feel there is no lack of nitrogen in any sections of the garden (due to possible lock-up by wood mulch), straw and grass clippings are indeed the way to go. Light, biodegradable... Wood mulch - I can only imaging the amount of cleaning I will have to do at the end of the season!, what a waste !

Scott, speaking of the compost (I have non of my own), can I just use straight hummus manure from local store (in the 40Lbs bag) by adding it to the top or does it have to be mixed? I could potentially get Mushroom compost (special order from local store), bit more costly, but if it is better, and will help me to extend the season with healthier and more productive plants, so be it.

Many thanks for all the advise! Will test the soil indeed, just need to figure out where to send the sample to. Hello yellow book!

Regards,
D

[The Helpful Gardener]

Try State Extension services, but expect chemical advice, not organic. If you want organic, tell them, and some do give organic advice. Please let me know if your state is doing organic recommendations because I want to give props to the states doing it right...

My favorite soil test is expensive but FAR more helpful to the organic gardener is [url=https://www.soilfoodweb.com/01_services/sampling.htm]SoilFoodweb's test[/url]; this tells you what you are doing when you are getting it really right, something not really reflected in a mere assay of chemistry. Bacterial to fungal ratios are good measures of greens to browns, and the higher level predator assay is the best measure of true soil health I know of. Expensive yes, but the best tool I know of. The professional recommendations are a LOT more in depth than anything you will get elsewhere...

Never say never on bark mulch; if fungal additions are what's called for, bark is a great way to get there. Fungal is carbon is acidic (but sometimes the fungal weak acid response can release a high calcium soil content and go the other way, so it helps to have pros looking at it for you). Clear that mulch, but pile it, hit it with some fish, and unlike most composts, leave it be; no turning. You will have a decent fungal compost next year, and a great brown (carbon) for your compost heap. No waste at all! Straight (composted) manure is mostly greens, and we do want some browns; mix the bagged poop with the (aged) wood and you are talking. You want some residual carbon as humus to provide a habitat for the bacteria, fungii, and predators to live in (all biology in the soil calls the paltry 2 to 5% of true organic matter there home; no humus, no biology). Straight up manure will get utilized or break down quickly, so we want some chunkier bit there too...

HG

[applestar]

Harvested a couple of Lynn's Mahogany Garnets today. Here's a photo with "can't get any redder" Principe Borghesis for color comparison. The red/orange color has crept all the way up to the top of the fruits, but they may not be fully ripe yet. I basically picked them because of the cracks that were forming on one (we had 2" of rain yesterday). Don't think I'll eat them just yet.
[img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image4684.jpg[/img]

Adding the photo on scale the bigger of the two was 5.1 oz. Sorry the color's a bit washed out -- rainy and miserable today -- lighting is terrible!
[img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image4686.jpg[/img]

[Duh_Vinci]

Gorgeous fruits, really are!

Now - neeeeeeeeed the report on taste

Regards,
D

[applestar]

Here's my first Valencia. 4.36 oz. Supposed to get to average 8-10 oz so it's on the small side, and a bit on the pointed side rather than the catalog photo of blocky squat fruits. Noted similar odd shape with first Moskvich so maybe later fruits will be "normal." Picked because it's getting some kind of spots, so color may deepen a bit more.
[img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image4666.jpg[/img]

[Duh_Vinci]

My Valencia fruits are not as big as advertised either, nor is their production, rather average. Very good tasting tomato, though not at all what I've expected... Not sure why I thought these guys would be on the sweet side, but not at all, rather strong, classic tomato flavor with added bonus of smokiness. Great on the sandwiches!

Cherokees on the other hand - while slowed down the fruit set to a degree, ripening on the daily basis. Few from today's picking:

[img]https://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i230/duhvinci/2009_garden/07_23_2009_cherokee_purple.jpg[/img]

And four little fruits:

[img]https://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i230/duhvinci/2009_garden/07_23_2009_cherokee_purples.jpg[/img]

Regards,
D

[applestar]

I found corn earworm holes in two of my Lynn's Mahogany Garnets this morning
[img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image4687.jpg[/img]

They weren't completely colored up yet, but I had to cut them up to inspect for worms.
[img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image4689.jpg[/img]
Luckily, the holes were only as deep as they were wide and no worms were inside. Maybe they were spotted/captured by the wasps that regularly patrol all my plants.

Of course now that I'd cut them up, I had to eat them. So I also cut up and tried the one that I'd picked a couple of days ago and was waiting to ripen.
[img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image4690.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image4691.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image4693.jpg[/img]

Result : disappointing. DH and I agreed that they tasted like restaurant tomatoes. Only passable with salt. The wormholed ones actually tasted slightly better. So I'm wondering if I'm not waiting long enough. The name is "Mahogany Garnet" after all. I'll try leaving the others to ripen more.

BTW - I found a new way to eat tomatoes! Taking a hint from The Little Town on the Prairie, in which Laura Ingalls Wilder said they ate the vine ripened red tomatoes with cream and sugar, I tried putting them in my morning cereal with bananas, fresh strawberries, and milk. They were actually very tasty this way.

[applestar]

Duh_Vinci, in case you missed it, I responded to you about tasting Moskvich here: https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17247&highlight=
It was OUTSTANDING! DH is still talking about it. (He'll just have be patient and wait for the next one to ripen!) It really is odd because I seem to remember having a surplus of Moskvich seedlings (it had a near 100% germination rate) but I'm seem to have lost them in the garden (the wooden popsicle stick labels are no longer legible and my garden notes are not much better )

[Duh_Vinci]

...Result : disappointing. DH and I agreed that they tasted like restaurant tomatoes. Only passable with salt...

That's a shame, such a good looking tomato, vibrant meat and gel. Let me guess - likely, not going to make it to the garden next year?

Regards,
D