starflare
Cool Member
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:31 pm

BRANDYWINE TOMATOES

Is there someone who knows about this type of tomatoe and if there any special care it needs?

cynthia_h
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 7501
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 11:02 pm
Location: El Cerrito, CA

Please use the Search function at the top left-hand corner of each page.

I just now Searched on "Brandywine tomato" and got over 10 pages of threads here at THG discussing these heritage plants.

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

User avatar
atascosa_tx
Cool Member
Posts: 96
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:19 pm
Location: Atascosa

no special care needed...this is a species that produces very few maters..
I've tried 3 years in a row..and the best I've ever done was 5 fruits per plant.
The one I have been trying to grow is the Sudduth strain.
pardon the spelling
Feed your soil and your soil will feed you

User avatar
hendi_alex
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 3567
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:58 am
Location: Central Sand Hills South Carolina

Same here. No special care, but only have managed around three fruit per plant. Lots of blossom this year, but very little fruit set. I'm am most impressed with the performance and taste of 'Celebrity' this year. Lots of large uniform fruit with excellent flavor and texture. All three plants gave similar results. Will double the number of 'Celebrity' plants for next year and will stagger the planting time by about three weeks. May even do three groups of three plants each, planted three weeks apart.
Eclectic gardening style, drawing from 45 years of interest and experience. Mostly plant in raised beds and containers primarily using intensive gardening techniques.
Alex

User avatar
Duh_Vinci
Greener Thumb
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:58 am
Location: Virginia

Well,

This far - my experience is rather different from most... I just came back from work, saw this post, picked some veggies/fruits from the garden for dinner and counted the set fruit from Brandywine.

30 + fruit from the bottom to the top. :shock: Tree (yep, I'm calling it a tree) is about 8' tall, 3 stems. Actually added 10' electrical conduit post yesterday to support the monster!

Nothing ripened yet, but one is finally started to show color. So maybe in a week?

Depending on the flavor (highly regarded by so many folks - that is why I planted it), will plant it again next year and just got some "Black Brandywine" seeds, so definitely will be trying this new variety next year.

Regards,
D

Charlie MV
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1544
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 3:48 am

We've got one this year that has put out upwards of 20 tomatoes and another that has put out about 5. The two plants are side by side. We did a taste off one night recently and decided that we weren't going to waste the space on Brandywines next year. The plant that's made a bunch of tomatoes made huge fruit but the core was huge too. We put out 25 tomato plants each year to feed the three of us year round along with few friends and neighbors. Not gonna give up the space again. Eating is to serious a business.

As to care, we tend to them the same as all the others.

Brandywinegirl
Senior Member
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 5:21 am
Location: East Coast

I love the taste of the Brandywine, but they tend to get early blight when I plant them. I planted 7 of them & I have lots of fruit, but all green. I don't treat them any different than they other plants (Porterhouse Hybrid, Rutgers).
Brandywine

Eat, Sleep, Garden and ... then Eat What You've Grown!

kylie77
Senior Member
Posts: 270
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:35 am
Location: Kamloops, BC

I was surprised to read this post as well. I have 4 brandywine plants growing and all of them have at least 20-30 green fruit and lots of new blossoms. I have had some with blossom end rot though :(, but most seem fine so far. The ones with the rot were in a container, not sure if that's why. I would've been so so so dissapointed with only a couple fruit per plant! I'm glad I seem to have got lucky! Haven't had a ripe one yet so can't comment on taste. My biggest problem is containing them as they're growing like mad!

RickNC
Full Member
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:57 pm
Location: NC

atascosa_tx wrote:no special care needed...this is a species that produces very few maters..
I've tried 3 years in a row..and the best I've ever done was 5 fruits per plant.
The one I have been trying to grow is the Sudduth strain.
pardon the spelling
This isn't true. Mine are covered in fruits.

starflare
Cool Member
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:31 pm

hi

We have about brandy wine tomatos plant color pink but the is also a yellow because i looked it up and we also have a few fruit on each our plants but my hubby says they[url=https://img194.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1010693.jpg][img]https://img194.imageshack.us/img194/6640/1010693.th.jpg[/img][/url]
are late bloomers.

TZ -OH6
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 2097
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:27 pm
Location: Mid Ohio

There are a many unrelated varieties with the name brandywine in them. The famous heirloom "Brandywine" is a temperamental pink potatoleaf plant. There are several strains of this, the best is Brandywine Sudduth's. If you just buy a seed pack that says "brandywine" this may or may not be the strain, and flavor and production may suffer a bit. Flavor is superb, production can be decent to very bad depending on conditions, but no one knows what the conditions for good production vs bad are. If you can grow it, great, if not try one more time in another location before giving up on it. It came from the Sudduth family of Tennesee.
Earls Faux and Ed's Millenium are either known (EM) or suspected (EF) strains of Brandywine with excellent flavor and good production.

Red Brandywine (Landis Valley strain) is unrelated. It is a red fruited regular leaf plant with Ppennsylvania Amish origins (perhaps from commercial seed in the late 1800's). Flavor is very good and production is good. It is rare on the market.

Red Brandywine (not Landis) is unrelated to Red Brandywine (Landis) It is a mislabeled variety that got sent out to a lot of seed distributors from a wholesale seed farm. It is common on the market, flavor is good, production is good

Red Brandywine (potatoleaf) is yet another unrelated variety sent out by a seed farm with the wrong name. Its claim to fame is that it is just about the only red fruited potatoleaf variety on the market. Flavor and productivity are good. It is often marketed as just Red Brandywine.

Yellow Brandywine, Yellow Brandywine (Platfood strain), Purple Brandywine (= Marizol Bratka), Lucky Cross, Red Rose, Black Brandywine, and Brandywine OTV are crosses with Brandywine (probably Sudduth's) as a parent.


"True Black Brandywine" is supposedly an old family heirloom from a Red Brandywine (Landis) cross. It is newly discovered (after Black Brandywine hit the market).

starflare
Cool Member
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:31 pm

hi

So what u are saying is that there only a few brandy wine tomatos out there that are real.

TZ -OH6
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 2097
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:27 pm
Location: Mid Ohio

There are a couple of ways to argue that...

Is the real Brandywine the Johnson and Stokes commercial variety named brandywine from the 1890s?, and is that the Landis Valley "Red Brandywine" handed down by the Amish?

When people talk about Brandywine, the tomato that made heirlooms popular, they are talking about pink potatoleaf "Brandywine" from the Sudduth family, so that is the real Brandywine from that standpoint, if not from a historical "where did the name come from" point of view. I would say that the 'new' Red Brandywine, and Red Brandywine potatoleaf are "fake" Red Brandywines, but at this point more people are growing them than they are the Landis Valley strain.

Because all of the other ones originated as crosses, having brandywine in the name is pretty much meaningless except from an advertizing point of view. Throwing the term "Amish" at anything with brandywine in the name is also a popular thing to due to sell more seeds. "Brandywine" is not Amish, "Red Brandywine (Landis Valley strain)" is. Heriloom Seeds seed company introduced Red Brandywine and still leaves off (Landis Valley strain) from the name, simply stating that theirs is the original Red Brandywine. Note that they also list Brandywine, Pink, and Brandywine (Sudduths strain) indicating that they bought their "Brandywine" seeds from two different sources, only one of which could be traced back to Ken Ettinger.

https://www.heirloomseeds.com/tomatoes.htm

To get the story on True Black Brandywine go here https://rareseeds.com/seeds/Tomatoes-Purple


Why are there different strains of Brandywine (pink potatoleaf)? because Dorris Sudduth Hill gave seed to Ben Quisenberry, who grew it, sold seeds, and distributed seeds through Seed Saver's Exchange. Quisenberry grew many other tomatoes as well, such as Stump of the World, and so some of the Brandywine seed was crossed when it got to other people. The seed companies got their starter seeds from these other people, and so these strains are differ in quality. One person who got seeds from Quisenberry was Ken Ettlinger of the Long Island Seed and Plant company. Ettlinger grew out Brandywine for several years and stabilized it for high quality. This is the stable seed source that eventually was named "Sudduth's strain"




A contrasting parallel to this story (can I say contrasting parallel???) is that of Cherokee Purple. There is an older variety named "Cherokee", which is red, unrelated, unpopular, and more or less unknown, but if tables had been turned with Cherokee being the famous one, then people might be dropping the "Purple" when talking about 'Cherokee Purple' the way they do when talking about 'Red Brandywine'.


'Cherokee Chocolate', and 'Cherokee Green' are actual color variants of Cherokee Purple caused by mutation in two specific color genes, not the result of crossing it with other tomatoes, which would mix up all the genes(as is the case with the Yellow, purple, black and anything else with brandywine in the name). Cherokee Purple has the green flesh gene mutation (gf) which gives it a dusky color when combined with the normal red flesh gene (making it a "black" tomato). It also has clear skin making it look purplish. Cherokee Chocolate developed a mutation in the clear skin gene (y) turning the skin from clear to yellow (so it looks brownish), and Cherokee Green is a Cherokee Chocolate that mutated the red flesh gene to the yellow flesh mutation (r), turning off the red and leaving just green. Green flesh (gf) plus yellow flesh (r) gives you a green when ripe tomato. Cherokee Green still has the yellow skin mutation so it gets an amber hue when ripe. Plant size and structure, along with fruiting habit are the same or all three, and although the flavor differs slightly all are exceptional.

Note, the difference between a pink and a red tomato is simply the color of the skin, clear vs yellow, from that single gene.

starflare
Cool Member
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:31 pm

hi

Thank u TZ i have the pink brandy wine from heirloom, and how big do they get.

cynthia_h
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 7501
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 11:02 pm
Location: El Cerrito, CA

thank you very much, TZ -OH6, for the terrific explanation of the history of the "Brandywine" varieties of tomato. Wow. :D

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

starflare
Cool Member
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:31 pm

hi

Cynthia that was a nice lecture wasnt it.

TZ -OH6
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 2097
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:27 pm
Location: Mid Ohio

You all are welcome, its confusing because its not what we are used to when we think about name relationships. Unfortunately, people are still naming things "brandywine" whenever their "brandywine" turns out differently than expected due to their seed being crossed. For some reason people think a one in 100,000 seeds genetic mutation is more likely than 5%-20% natural cross pollination, this is because so many people say tomatoes rarely cross (and because we watch too many science fiction movies where people turn into mutants every day).

For example, last season I bought "Red Brandywine" because it was on sale and I wanted to see what I would get, suspecting something was funny from the buzz on the tomato forums. The seed turned out to be mislabled, and was in fact the potatoleaf red variety (which I wanted to try). And from the handfull of seeds I started one seed grew out as a deep dark pink (cranberry almost) fruited regular leaf plant. It tasted superb so I saved seed, and rather than call it "Pink regular leaf red potatoleaf fake brandywine", I call it "Thunderbird" after the cheap skid row wine (it's a huge plant so the name fits if you don't get the joke). I'm sure it is a stray seed of a known variety (maybe Rose), so you can see how these things happen. I emailed the seed company and told them that what they were selling was not even the fake red brandywine, it was the fake red potatoleaf thing and that it was not Amish from 1885, it was accidentally developed by their wholesaler (Seeds By Design) in California in the last few years. They finally changed the website to say something like "famous old Amish _potatoleaf_ red brandywine", and I see that it has been changed back this year (maybe they sold off that old batch of seeds and are only selling the regular fake red brandywine) Soon after I notified them, Carolyn Male, author of "100 Heirloom Tomatoes..." contacted them with the same info, so they have been told the correct history of all of the brandywines by myself (aka some guy they don't know, but who threw a good bit of money their way) and by a respected expert. Now go to their website (tomatofest.com), look at the aphabetical list to bring up all of the brandywines and see how much they care about accurate advertizing. Note that Quisenberry is from Ohio, not Vermont, and that they are seling Marizol Bratka and Purple Brandywine seperately even though they are the same thing (and they know that the proper name is Marizol Bratka).


As for size of the fruit...All of those things have average big fruit at about a pound, most of the fruit are 10oz -14oz. Some varieties are more at the upper end of this if well grown (the pinks might show you a 2 lb fruit if you get lucky), while the Landis Red is at the lower end (10-16 oz).

User avatar
Duh_Vinci
Greener Thumb
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:58 am
Location: Virginia

WOW,

TZ - most certainly appreciate the education on Brandywine! Never knew that! Same goes for Cherokees, many thanks! Since these two (and Black Tula) so far are the primary varieties I plan for next year, terrific information indeed!

So speaking of the source for "true" strain of heirlooms, who are some of the trusted suppliers of the seeds in your opinion?

Regards,
D

TZ -OH6
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 2097
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:27 pm
Location: Mid Ohio

Who can you trust for seed? Well, everybody makes mistakes, especially when everybody is buying most of their seed from places like Seeds by Design, or are trying to grow alot of varieties for seed in a limited space ( bee induced crossing is a problem) but some are better than others when mistakes are pointed out to them. SandHill Preservation Center works closely with Carolyn Male, and Victory Seeds works closely with Craig Lehoullier (they will be among the first to get some of the new stuff hitting the market, Southern Exposure Seed Exchange is very active in heirloom preservation. Mariannas Seeds, and Tomato Growers Supply are respected, as is Johnny's. Because Heirloom Seeds introduced Red Brandywine, I suspect that they can be trusted to care about their stock, as can Bakers Creek. Glecklers was an old and trusted source of many great heirlooms. They went out of business but now are starting up again with the next generation of the family running things. They just got a large selection of starter seed from donations on another forum, so in a couple of years they may have some stuff other people don't. Seed Savers Exchange relies on getting seed from their members (they may do some of their own grow outs too) so they may have stuff other people don't, and it is probably as accurate as anyone elses.

I would check company reviews at Daves' Garden, and if a company is not good to their customers, I suspect that they don't care about accuracy of their seed info.


A good way to get fairly accurate seeds is simply by trading on forums. Even if you do not have much to trade, simply making an offer of what you have (tomatoes, misc vegetables, flowers etc.) and not seeming greedy about what you want (I would ask for slightly less varieties than you have varieties to trade or make your want list open ended such as 'I'm looking for a good eating tomato and something to use for sauce') will often get you unexpected results from people who save alot of seeds and don't want much in return. You can be sure that the people who are really into collecting tomatoes/heirloom vegetable seeds are concerned about the accuracy of what thay grow probably moreso than the seed companies.

A good way to start trading would be to buy and grow some obscure varieties for seed to start with (if you can't say the name and its from far away thats probably a good variety to get), so that you have something others would want. If you have Crnkovic Yugoslavian, or Lida Ukranian and everybody else on the planet has Brandywine, Black Krim, Anna Russian, Cherokee Purple, Kelloggs Breakfast, etc you have just gotten yourself five varieties for the price of one. Last winter I got interested in peppers and within a week or so I found a friendly hot pepper forum, made my offer, (new guy wants to trade tomatoes for peppers), and quickly set up a trade with a guy in Sweden... a whole bunch of tomatoes for a lot of rare hot peppers (I asked for a few specific ones and then asked him to choose some of his favorites). Postage cost me a couple of bucks. This winter I will have seed saved from over a dozen rare hot peppers to trade (I want to try growing some rare heirloom corn and Native American beans varieties next year,... and maybe a pumpkin. So somebody might get Turkish Severi Bebber, Hungrian Etkezi Paprika, and Peru White Habanero Pepper seeds for ten seeds they saved from their kid's grocery store Haloween pumpkin -LOL).

These sites may be of interest

https://tatianastomatobase.com

https://www.wintersown.org



After finding stray seeds in a large percentage of my seed packs from Tomatofest two years in a row, I won't be buying over priced seeds from them again; I hear that AmishLand Seeds is notorious for tall tales and even renaming varieties; Rougeland, aka Anioleka, aka Vegetable seeds UK, aka Seedfest UK is based in a house in Oregon and regularly seems to bilk their customers, unfortunately they plant to reintroduce the Rostova tomato from original seed, which Tomatofest renamed Sunset's Red Horizon and then proceeded to let it get corrupted so that it is not the same tomato is started out to be.

starflare
Cool Member
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:31 pm

hi

Thanks like i said i have the heirloom pink brandy wine.

User avatar
Duh_Vinci
Greener Thumb
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:58 am
Location: Virginia

Terrific information TZ!

Greatly appreciate all the advise and the pointers, this is more helpful than you can imagine!

Tatiana's tomatoes - she is absolutely delight to deal with, got some interesting varieties from her for the next season to try. Testing germination and seed "true" to variety as we speak - just for fun, besides, never know in VA how long would the growing season would extend. So far - germination rate 100%, all seeds sprouted in about 4 days.

Had a taste of my potato leaf Brandywine this morning (hoping a true variety). What a great tomato flavor. Mild, but unmistakably, pure tomato flavor - joy!

On the vine, getting ripe

[img]https://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i230/duhvinci/2009_garden/07_23_2009_first_brandywine2.jpg[/img]

Here is the 21oz fruit

[img]https://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i230/duhvinci/2009_garden/07_19_2009_first_brandywine.jpg[/img]

And now sliced for the sandwiches:

[img]https://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i230/duhvinci/2009_garden/07_23_2009_first_brandywine1.jpg[/img]

If you can grow it to bear enough fruit - I would indeed recommend to anyone to try. Terrific slicer!

Regards,
D

starflare
Cool Member
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:31 pm

hi

Duh_vinci mine right now are still small and green cant wait to taste them.
[url=https://img41.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1010759.jpg][img]https://img41.imageshack.us/img41/6678/1010759.th.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=https://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1010761.jpg][img]https://img248.imageshack.us/img248/2663/1010761.th.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=https://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1010757.jpg][img]https://img339.imageshack.us/img339/2610/1010757.th.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=https://img194.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1010760.jpg][img]https://img194.imageshack.us/img194/3681/1010760.th.jpg[/img][/url]

User avatar
applestar
Mod
Posts: 28047
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 11:21 pm
Location: Zone 6, NJ (3/M)4/E ~ 10/M

Playing catch-up with some threads -- Wow TZ, let me add my thanks for all the wonderful back story info on the Brandywine strains as well as advise on seed sources!

I HAD started a post a few days ago re: where everybody was getting their seeds because there was such an obvious variation. (It got lost when I unintentionally walked away from the computer and didn't come back for a while :roll: ) Glad you jumped in and clarified everything -- much more in-depth details than I'd have hoped for. :D

starflare
Cool Member
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:31 pm

hi

Applestar how is day going.

starflare
Cool Member
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:31 pm

hi

Know body commented on how my tomatos looked.

User avatar
Duh_Vinci
Greener Thumb
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:58 am
Location: Virginia

Healthy looking maters! Are brandywine turning pink a little?

Regards,
D

starflare
Cool Member
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:31 pm

HI

I guess ours are slow growers and slow at riping.

Return to “TOMATO FORUM”