Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

[applestar]

FYI —

Seeds for the final phase segregate of Shimofuri (霜降り) approved by me are being sold exclusively by my friend Ellie of Bunny Hop Seeds now at:

Shimofuri – Heritage Seed Market
https://heritageseedmarket.com/index.ph ... shimofuri/

[TomatoNut95]

FYI —

Seeds for the final phase segregate of Shimofuri (霜降り) approved by me are being sold exclusively by my friend Ellie of Bunny Hop Seeds now at:

Shimofuri – Heritage Seed Market
https://heritageseedmarket.com/index.ph ... shimofuri/

Eeeee! Would you be willing to trade seeds with me? I really don't need to buy anymore until I can manage to rid myself of some of my varieties I don't want to grow again. Please have a look under my 'Free Seed' thread if you would and see if there's something I have you might want to try. I'm afraid I'll have to just throw away the majority of the unwanted seeds by the end of the year if no one wants them.

[applestar]

This year, I’m helping my friend out and she’s got the EXCLUSIVE release — her listing shows 8 packets left.


... more so since her garden is getting pounded by H Sally right now and she may lose the remaining harvest. Don’t forget she’s the one with all those selected for superior flavor and other traits micro-dwarf tomato varieties as well as her own creations of heat and disease tolerant Gulf coast -adapted tomato crosses.

[applestar]

Here’s another cross-breeding project that I’m bringing up to the front-burner — Dwarf Arctic Rose x Utyonok.

— Dwarf Arctic Rose is a true dwarf with pink small salad-sized? beefsteak-shaped fruits.
— Utyonok is a short stature regular-leaf with I believe large cherry or cocktail-sized pointed yellow fruits

I’m growing some F2’s —
* The one at left in the front row of VGD
* Two inside the blue tomato cage in KGP.SIP2

…you might be able to see that the one to the left in the SIP is growing much taller than the other two which show the more compact dwarf growth. So I’m guessing the tall one has inherited more of the Utyonok growth pattern/internodes.

Unfortunately I didn’t have the chance to grow the parents to compare side by side, nor in a large batch needed for F2 segregate genetic trait expression, but it will be interesting nonetheless.

— looking back to the beginning —

@lindsay, these Dwarf Arctic Rose fruits have excellent flavor for a winter indoor tomato. Definitely deep tomato flavor and zing. Difficult to get the sweetness when temperature is cold but since it's been hot lately, they have been more sweet.

I have three more mega fruits and about 1/2 dozen singles, but the most anticipated fruit I'm waiting for it to blush is a cross I made with Utyonok.

two singles in the truss with the three megas, and three more blushing below, and the one green medium sized Dwarf Arctic Rose x Utyonok fruit....

The other crosses I made with Maglia Rosa didn't develop ...and I would have had more fruits but one branch with 6 still-tiny green fruits on it broke off -- I suspect one of the cats pushed it over when trying to get on or off the windowsill.

[applestar]

Update Photos of Dwarf Arctic Rose x Utyonok F1 seedlings.



They are showing very promising stout and dwarf (short internode) structure that might be really good for winter indoor growing and container growing, intermingling with flowers without unsightly tomato supports....

Dwarf Arctic Rose x Utyonok F1

...this one was started early -- in fact on schedule for Winter Indoor growout. But it seems like that was actually its undoing, because this one and another variety I started on time were rapidly overcome by severe TRM (tomato russet mite) infestation.

I can't tell if the stress was the reason that all of the seedlings ended up with a single fruit before deteriorating. First one barely managed to ripen its fruit.

[applestar]

2021 harvest of segregates has started. One Wild Rosa F5 or F6 and some MoltenSky F5 and F6 the other day, and these from yesterday. (identification may be revised as the developing fruits show their traits more clearly and definitively through the season)

Their pedicels won’t break at the joint nor the fruits off the calyx without effort/forcing — not until they are ripe enough….

None of these blushed MoltenSky F5 or F6 on the Front Right plant would pull off….

[applestar]

Molten Sky F5/F6 and Molten Sun F5/F6 harvested today.

These fruit traits are DEFINITELY the ones I want to carry forward

They are tasty, too. Solid sweet front end with burst of umami and bright tangy finish, Assertive enough to be sliced lengthwise and nestled in a layer of mayo in a hamburger (I had one with thinly diagonally sliced Suyo Long cucumbers and a large winter squash blossom subbing for lettuce today). Best flavor within a day or two of harvest since they already resist being picked earlier. Skin is not too thick, flesh is not mushy but juicy, never crunchy.

[applestar]

Yesterday (7/31) and today (8/1). I think I found the Buttermints segregate, but am not positive. It’s the matte (not metallic) pale yellow small cherries without their calyx vs. the Sun Mints which develop the metallic shimmer when ripe (just like Molten Sun). I tried harvesting the Sun Mints as a truss today — only the first one in the cluster closest to the vine is fully ripe with the translucency and metallic shimmer and a 2nd one is starting to show these characteristics, while the others still look dull.

Right now, the pale yellow/white Molten Sun, Sun Mints, and Buttermints all also develop a faint pink blush (due to the high daytime temp? or is it the extra cool low to mid 60’s overnights we’ve had lately?). It’s not obvious but if Molten Sky fruits are also being affected, maybe the effect is adding additional dimensions of color depths?

It also occurred to me yesterday that the Molten Sky segregate’s extreme reluctance to separate from the truss makes it perfectly suited for harvesting for vine-ripened full truss presentation. The truss I harvested “whole” yesterday has one fruit missing since I did harvest that one earlier, but these fruits still would not pull or break off without applying extreme edge-of-fingernail opposing force on the pedicel knuckle (the knuckle just bends without breaking if manipulated in the usual way to harvest), and the fruits do not come off the calyx … which is very different from the Buttermints which readily knock off of the calyx.

Molten Sky, Molten Sun, Sun Mints, Buttermints (F5/F6)

I also came up with Japanese names for Molten Sky and Molten Sun segregates.

Molten Sky (紅蓮の空）
[Guren no Sora]

Molten Sun (太陽のトロ)
[Taiyo no Toro]

[applestar]

Here’s a photo of an upper Molten Sky floral/fruit truss —

…sigh… the potential is there. Imagine if all those blossoms had set fruit!

[TomatoNut95]

Ugh, I HATE it when the blossoms don't set I feel like it's a big loss. Did the weather cause your blossom drop?

[applestar]

Molten Sun (太陽のトロ)
[Taiyo no Toro] F5/F6 VGB-FL’2021 observations —comparable in size and general shape to Molten Sky.

Seeds from these fruits will be F6/F7

— Sweet, bright and less intense than Molten Sky — which would be typically expected from white/yellow fruits. More fruity umami, with mild tangy finish, no acid/burn, less lingering.

[applestar]

I’m growing the F1 of a new cross I made over the winter — Shimofuri 霜降りx Aztek.

Since Shimofuri is pink cocktail size heart fruited (clear epi) and Aztek is YELLOW small round cherry (yellow epi), I’m excited to see that in addition to the supernumerary larger sized round cherry fruit trusses, these are ripening RED (yellow dominant epi) — confirmation that the cross was successful.

Shimofuri 霜降りis a variegated compact determinate and Aztek is a micro dwarf determinate. Ultimately, I’m hoping for a micro-dwarf variegated heart (pink and/or bi-color) from this cross.

[applestar]

First harvest from (Dwarf Arctic Rose x Utyonok) F2. I ended up harvesting the 2nd yellow fruit because the bottom of the fruit was giving to pressure, but maybe it is only at blush stage and will fully ripen to that boat-shaped dark orange color? — I guess we’ll know in a couple of days. This one’s shape looks a lot like the Dwarf Arctic Rose parent. The yellow color as well as shape of the 2nd fruit look a lot like the pollen donor parent Utyonok. But to me the epi looks clear-ish, although you can never tell for sure until the scrape test.

[applestar]

I have two more (Dwarf Arctic Rose x Utyonok) F2 plants in the kitchen Garden Patio SIP2. I think I over-planted in there though, and one of the two seems to be stunted.

You can see Shimofuri (霜降り) F8 and the [Shimofuri (霜降り)F7 x Aztek] F1 have pretty much taken over. I’ll post more discussions about intriguing chacteristics I’m seeing in these segregates later on.

[applestar]

Dwarf Arctic Rose x Utyonok F2 at fully ripe stage. Interesting swirly colors inside and out. Is this considered “bicolor”? About 2 inches tall oblate and maximum approx 2-1/2 inches in diameter so far.

[applestar]

‘Wild Rosa’ is a sister segregate to Molten Sky (紅蓮の空), Molten Sun (太陽のトロ), etc. from the “BLUE TAG = Maglia Rosa #1 (WWL) x (Zluta Kytice + Coyote + Matt's Wild Cherry + Faelan's First Snow lv)” line.

Due to disorganized couple of years, I’ve lost track whether it is at F5 or F6 this year, but it’s definitely a keeper and I now have F6 or F7 seeds

I can’t wait to be sure it is stable and then to be able to share seeds. F8 or F9 is the usual recommendation.

[applestar]

So, about this one —

According to my planting map, this should be one of the two plants of “MR.Zm F3 4B-P3 9/5/16” — part of my “Maglia Rosa #1 (WWL) x (Zluta Kytice + Coyote + Matt's Wild Cherry + Faelan's First Snow lv)” mixed pollen cross grow outs.

after F3, I subdivided the clear epi segregates and yellow epi segregates since yellow epi is dominant, and this one with the MR.Zm designation is the yellow epi subgroup that assumes descent from Zluta Kytice or Matt’s Wild.

…AAAND! this one is MULTIFLORA! (Zluta Kytice characteristic) . (I’ll post in detail in my cross thread later — I was just so happy to see the floral truss this morning )

This morning, I spotted one of the lower trusses that only managed to set one fruit (+ a runt) of a (not quite multiflora) truss during the heatwave or muggy humidity or maybe the sudden cold snap… and lookee here, it’s an elongated cherry, is marked with very strong stripes, and is pointy!

…currently somewhat smaller than Molten Sky and generally closer to Wild Rosa in shape in the “cousin” segregates.

[applestar]

Progress

[applestar]

… can you tell I’m excited about this? …

[TomatoNut95]

Yep, I can tell. But you have good reason to be! Fantastic progress! I'm in love with that massive truss!

[ourfriendinertia]

Not sure this is the place to ask, but I got myself a packet of Shimofuri after hearing it was a cross with a tumbling variety. I plan to grow it in a 8" wide hanging pot indoors in the winter. Does anyone have any advice before I commit?

[applestar]

Ooh thank you for trying Shimofuri(霜降り). Yes, it can be an excellent hanging basket tomato due to its willowy sprawling growing habit when trained to smoothly tumble over the hanging pot rim as it grows — select 3 to 4 branches of the same plant and arrange to grow equally over the rim — TRAIN THEM by twisting/rotating the stems so they are directed downward and stroke or gently apply pressure on the stems to sprawl rather than growing upwards before watering, when soil is dry and vines are more flexible (rather than staking and supporting as I did this year.)

My feeling is that 8 inch diameter pot is inadequate for this variety however. It is not a micro-dwarf.

My experience in growing hanging basket tomatoes has been that 10 inch is barely enough to grow one tomato plant, and tends to stunt the potential of a variety unless it is a micro-dwarf variety grown in hanging basket for accessibility.

Personally, I would recommend a larger 14 inch hanging basket pot with soil volume equal to 0.5 cubic foot for Shimofuri because it can be very vigorous, but you might get away with growing in a 12 inch — no smaller than that.

Container and Pot Sizes: How Much Soil Do I Need? | Harvest to Table

Soil for Hanging Baskets

10 inch (25 cm) = 5.5 dry quarts (6L) = 0.21 cu. ft.

12 inch (30 cm) = 7.9 dry quarts (8.4L) = 0.3 cu. ft.

14 inch (36 cm) = 13.9 dry quarts (15.3L) = 0.5 cu. ft.

Shimofuri(霜降り) can also be grown from balcony and deck railing in window boxes (30 inch to 36 inch) — one plant per container.

[ourfriendinertia]

Thanks Applestar! I think I'm going to pivot to trying a growing shelf next to the window instead of a hanging pot, as I need a bit more room for larger pots and don't want to have the leaves press directly into the glass during the cold winter months.

Much appreciated on the advice on how to train 霜降り. I'll post pics when I have more than sprouts to show (planted the seeds 9 days ago).

[applestar]

My primary cross breeding project focus this year will be growing out and observing/selecting from the F2 generation of the new cross — {Shimofuri (霜降り)F7 x Aztek}. Aztek is a microdwarf with round yellow cherry sized fruits.

I’m hoping to ultimately develop (1) variegated leaf microdwarf variety (2) different colored fruit variety with Shimofuri(霜降り) level variegation and great flavor, with even more affinity for hanging basket growing.

We are at an exciting point of first differentiation among the seedlings.

In these three rectangular cells, I have seeds from three types from the F1 gen — “blunt heart” fruits similar to Shimofuri (霜降り), “flattened” fruits of similar size, and “smaller round” fruits more like Aztek (These smaller fruits also grew on shorter, less vigorous plants than the others.)

I hoped that these fruit shapes hinted at genetic inheritance, so that the blunt hearts segregate might exhibit greater variegation whereas the small rounds might exhibit the microdwarf characteristics.

Here you can see the microdwarf traits appear to be showing up already in these seedlings.

- By my count, 7 out of 14 small rounds are short.

- Among the flattened, 13 are tall, 5 are short and 5 are somewhat in between. (this one isn’t precisely counted)

- And the blunt hearts, about 5 are short and 10 or 12 or so are medium to taller.

I’ll be able to tell the microdwarfing vs. short determinate internode characteristics better after they have grown a couple of nodes of true leaves. (The true leaves should exhibit the differentiation as well)

Variegation if any should start showing up in the 2nd and 3rd sets of true leaves.

[applestar]

Super excited to find variegation showing up on the 3rd true leaf of one of the new {Shimofuri(霜降り)F7xAztek}F2 [S7xA.F2]. This one is one of the tall seedlings in the “blunt heart fruit” segregate. Hoping to find more on others….

…Some of the Shimofuri (霜降り)F9 seedlings are showing the reliable, early, and extensive variegation — as always, it pays to start extra seedlings so you can select the best ones to keep.

Faelan’s First Snow — the original source of these variegated lines — is also making a good show.

[applestar]

Here are collages of S7xA.F2 seedlings showing dwarf to microdwarf characteristics (refer to seedling map above if interested)

As a point of intrigue and possible confirmation of inherited traits,

• “Blunt Heart” fruited segregate resulted in roughly 8 tall and 8 short seedlings

• “Flattened Apple” fruited segregate resulted in roughly 12 tall and 12 short seedlings

…Of these, some of the “tall” are in between — not as tall as the tallest and not as short as the shortest.

• Small “Cherry” fruited segregate resulted in roughly 8 tall and 7 short seedlings

…these seem straightforward in their differentiation.

Some of the less easily differentiated general height difference and internodal segments may still be due to environmental conditions, so these ratios will continue to be revised.

[applestar]

This morning, I was super excited to spot THREE S7xA.F2 seedlings among the “short” (potentially MICRODWARF) segregates that show first hints of variegation — [BS5], [FS3], and [SS6].

These are not as prominent variegation as sported by [BT8] reported above (and photographed for comparison in the collage), but I’m pretty sure they are real variegation and not some cosmetic discoloration. Usually more developed and hopefully intricate variegation will be exhibited in later leaves… and even if the variegation that develop on these are relatively minor, once captured, the trait can be intensified in future selections from this generation

The difference in leaf shapes I’m sure are indicative. If anyone has thoughts/insights, I’d love to hear

[applestar]

GOOD NEWS —

Out of 56 seedlings of {Shimofuri (霜降り)F7 x Aztek} F2, I have 8 in this generation that are showing decent variegation.

Surprisingly, variegation was not as prevalent among the TALL seedlings as I had thought — most are currently in the MEDIUM range (even though they were initially grouped among TALL seedlings), and there are two seedlings that are, to my eyes, also exhibiting DWARF/MICRODWARF leaf internode characteristics and rugose dark green true leaves.

It’s interesting to note that some of these are also forming finer cut true leaves that tends towards wispiness, which are typically linked to oval, teardrop, and heart/“bullet” shaped fruits with pointed end.

[applestar]

BAD NEWS — of all this year’s tomato seedling trays, the one tray with all of the established variegated leaf varieties — Faelan’s First Snow and Shimofuri F9, as well as Sweet Splash trial — have been struck by the dreaded “damping off of the older seedlings”.

This is the kind that causes steady wilting and dropping of lower leaves starting with the seed leaves. I’ve had to give up on 3 seedlings already when the disease spread all the way to the growing point. A handful are in jeopardy with only a couple of sets of top most leaves left.

I believe the disease was introduced when I unthinkingly used bamboo skewers that were probably left from last year’s seedling grow out (when I first discovered and learned about this disease). I didn’t realize they had not been properly sterilized (and I also underestimated that it would not still be lurking on them.)

…it’s not as easy to tell that Sweet Splash seedlings are being affected, but they seem stunted and their (rugose potato leaf?) true leaves are maintaining curled edges without stretching out …unlike true leaves that wilt in stages one leaflet at a time from the tip.

…One other variety in the tray — Beaverlodge Slicer — don’t seem to be affected? OR VERY LITTLE. It will be interesting to find out if they are resistant.

I am continuing to treat the tray —

(1) started with spraying the surface of the mix with straight drug store hydrogen peroxide, then thoroughly watered with 50% diluted. Also sprayed the stems with neem-soap solution — that didn’t seem to help

(2) thoroughly cleaned the bottom drip tray and sprayed the underside of the cells with hydrogen peroxide

(3) mixed up a small batch Ehime AI-2 (or near approximation) — yogurt, yogurt whey, brown rice milk, yeast, natto powder, cane sugar — and after overnight culture, applied 3 drops per cell, then watered and drenched with decoction of dried willow bark, willow branch tips, sliced fresh ginger.

(4) Inoculated the leftover willow bark decoction with the probiotic culture and have been continuing to apply to seedlings that have deteriorated.

[applestar]

This variegated {Shimofuri (霜降り) F7 x Aztek} F2 seedling (FT15a) stands out among its siblings

[applestar]

Here are two segregates from Maglia Rosa x (Coyote•Faelan’s First Snow) crossbreeding project that I have been revisiting in hopes of stabilizing a new set of traits. We know this is the clear epi subset because white and pink fruits have appeared in this line.

I have named them “Li’l Wild Rosa (お茶目な／お茶目っ子ローザちゃん)” F5 and “Sundews (甘露の日和)” F5.

There are still segregating traits, but all three L’il Wild Rosa (お茶目な／お茶目っ子ローザちゃん)” F5 as well as one of the three “Sundews (甘露の日和)” F5 appear to be winding down and terminating in determinate growth pattern. (First of their seeds both sprouted on March 13 and they were planted out on June 2. These are the first tomatoes to blush in the entire garden.)

Also, the first “Sundews (甘露の日和)” F5 to color break and blush is not growing the tear-drop shaped fruits of the mother plant…. (However, some that I accidentally broke off while still green are changing color on the kitchen counter, and right now they look as though they are ripening into bicolor fruit. )

More conclusive observations will follow as these plants develop further ~~

[farmer32084]

seeing all of these crosses makes me happy! I can't wait to see the pink siberian tiger crosses turn out

[applestar]

I need to take more comprehensive and detailed progress photos of the (Shimofuri (霜降り)F7 x Aztek) F2 project, but here is a 6/27 photo of the VGA bed.

2022 VGA

(You can see the variegated lower leaves in the front left two plants …and the left-most microdwarf in the back… if you click/tap and zoom in)
At F2, these plants that were all showing more than a little variegation as 3rd~5th set true leaf seedlings (except the center row 3 from the left which are Dwarf Arctic Rose x Utyonok F3) appear to be unable to maintain variegation in the new growths in the summer heat.

This has been an universal tendency even with most of the established variegated varieties, so not a surprise or disappointment, but with the explosive upper growths and arrival of muggy weather, the last of the variegated lowest leaves will be pruned off soon, and we may or may not see any more variegation for the rest of the season, although sometimes it’s possible during the cooler weather in autumn.

These segregates however, are more likely to exhibit determinate, early senility.

[applestar]

BIL sent this photo of first S7xA-F2 to ripen. He is growing the FlattenedTall#6 segregate, which has yielded yellow (Aztek trait), slightly eggshaped, cherry sized fruits. I’ll have to get the plant characteristics from him later. (Shimofuri is an elongated heart saladette; Aztek is round cherry). I’ll have to get the plant characteristics from him later.

— The metallic streaks are on fruits of Molten Sun(太陽のトロ)F6/F7 segregate and Molten Sky(紅蓮の空)F6/F7 … indicating they are growing according to expected type —

[applestar]

Most of the S7xA-F2 segregates seem to be sporting DOUBLE-trusses and/or STACKED-trusses —

VGA’22 S7xA-F2 and DARxU-F3

I’ve been seeing this trait in modest display among Shimofuri(霜降り) segregates, but it is much more prevalent and persistent among these shorter segregate cross with Aztek plants … maybe a trait that is more common among the micro-dwarfs?

[applestar]

Here is an initial overview collage for the 2022 grow out of Shimofuri(霜降り)F7 x Aztek, F2 segregates in Vegetable Gardenbed A (VGA):

2022 grow out of Shimofuri(霜降り)F7 x Aztek, F2 segregates

[applestar]

My hubby is “spoiled” as he says, and is very particular about what kind of tomato flavor he likes. My hubby is “spoiled” as he says, and is very particular about what kind of tomato flavor he likes. And HE said both the white/yellow Sundews (甘露の日和) and the pink version Sundews (甘露の日和) have “GOOD TOMATO FLAVOR”.

…

I finally got the Shimofuri(霜降り)F7xAztek-F2 [S7xA-F2.2022] segregates in VGA organized into representative collages — descriptions and tasting notes to follow

[applestar]

This year’s pursuit of my crossbreeding efforts and segregates have been started on TRAY1, including some very old original F1 seeds of handpollinated cross that I haven’t tried growing/pursued before ….

* Decided to select for variegation in the Shimofuri(霜降り)F7 x Aztek segregates. Hopefully more micro-dwarf gene types will show up as well.

** I’m seeing some typos Will make corrections later….

[imafan26]

I don't try to cross tomatoes. I do grow different varieties and some of the seeds do end up producing more seedlings, but I rarely get accidental crosses. Most of them will breed true from OP varieties. The hybrids may look the same but sometimes they end up with a different flavor profile. I don't try to cross them deliberately, but they do sort of go through a selection process. Mainly if the fruit are good, the birds will eat the tomatoes and volunteers show up elsewhere in the yard or in other pots. Usually, the ones the birds plant are the best. This is true for other things like peppers, tomatoes, and bitter melon. However, the birds spread the small wild Indian bitter melon seeds most. I don't like fruit that bitter but others do. I consider it a weed in my yard, but it makes good worm food. They don't mind the leaves.

[applestar]

Best of this year’s Shimofuri(霜降り)F9 and its parent variety Faelan’s First Snow in my garden — both developing uniquely beautiful variegation

…Looking at this collage, I realized what has been nagging at me that strikes me as different between them. My Shimofuri(霜降り) has a teal green tone to the foliage whereas Faelan’s First Snow is more emerald green…?

I’d love to hear if you have seen similar difference in your garden.