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jal_ut
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Just type in the name of the vegetable you want to save seed from and type "Orthodox" in as well and see what comes up.
I searched for Carrot Orthodox on Google, and guess what came up? This thread. See you are will known. :P
Gardening at 5000 feet elevation, zone 4/5 Northern Utah, Frost free from May 25 to September 8 +/-

imafan26
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Sometimes seeds just come up. I haven't planted gladiolus, nasturtiums, sesame, and culantro for a couple of years. The seeds or corms just sprout when it is time. I don't have freezing temperatures though.
Happy gardening in Hawaii. Gardens are where people grow.

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rainbowgardener
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sensenjog wrote:hello friends, whether squash can be planted in areas that have hot weather? :)...
Squash likes hot weather
Twitter account I manage for local Sierra Club: https://twitter.com/CherokeeGroupSC Facebook page I manage for them: https://www.facebook.com/groups/65310596576/ Come and find me and lots of great information, inspiration

imafan26
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Re: How to Save & Preserve Seeds

The seed racks at the stores have been decimated. I have a couple of bags of seed and I bought my seeds in November last year. However, I recently checked online and many seed companies have been overwhelmed with orders and the larger ones are either not taking any orders at all or won't take orders until later.

Agricultural restrictions makes it difficult to import seeds without certification and certification has to be planned in advance since I can only get the amount of seeds I intend to import and only the seeds on the list for one price. $100 for a year or $20 for one shipment. For the same reason I cannot participate in seed exchanges unless they are done on my island.

I am reviving this thread to remind people that they can save their seeds and share locally.

Fresh seeds: Store seeds in a cool and dry place. For me that is in the refrigerator or freezer.
Pick seeds when they are mature. Do a float test. Keep only the sinkers, floaters aren't good.
Dry seeds well and make sure you label and date the packages. You can store dried seeds in
paper envelopes and then put the envelopes in plastic bags to keep moisture out.
How long can you keep seeds? It depends. Most seeds will keep 3-5 years and some like
beans and dill have been good for me for 10-12 years. Germination rates decrease the older
the seeds get and they last longer at a constant temperature. So, to prevent temperature
and humidity variations, only take out the amount of seeds you can use, not the whole bag.
Some seeds have very short viability and should not be kept more than one year. Only
perfect conditions can extend seed life longer.

Check germination: If you have seeds that are older than three years. Do a germination test to see if they
are still good. Seeds over 5 years , you should consider replacing with fresh seeds.
Seeds over 10 years old may not be worth keeping.

Rare seeds: To make sure you don't lose old and rare varieties, plant seeds out every couple of years just
replenish the seed supply and share with others.

Collecting seeds: Make sure you collect ripe seeds. Immature seeds are not viable. Some seeds that have
protective coatings need fermentation before drying.

Germinating seeds: Seeds may have specific germination requirements such as complete darkness or need
to be exposed to light. Seeds that go through an intermediate host, like a bird's gut
may need to be soaked in potassium nitrate first. Other seeds may need soaking or
scarification to germinate better.

Recalcitrant seeds: cannot be dried or stored. They have to be used fresh. Chayote , cacao,and avocado
are examples. Chayote and avocadoes will sprout before they fall off the plant.

Temperature: Seeds will germinate in their own good time. Seeds will drop and remain dormant
until conditions are right to germinate. This happens a lot with nasturtiums, and some
hot pepper varieties. There are minimum and maximum temperatures that will
support seed germination. So if you plant seeds and the seeds don't come up, it may
not be a problem with seed viability, but with the soil temperature not being optimum.
Some rhizomes may need to be lifted and chilled or they won't come out of dormancy.
I have this problem with dahlias. They grow from seed, but they never wake up again if
they don't experience "winter".

Really fresh seeds: If you are using seeds straight out of the pod, you can plant ripe seeds immediately
without drying. Tomatoes, peppers, eggplant, melons, and most herbs and fruits will
work this way. Some fruits are usually harvested in the immature stage and may not
have ripe seed so you will need to wait for a while until the fruit has matured.

Hybrid seeds: While hybrid seeds will most likely grow (some will be mules). They are not
guaranteed to be exactly like the parent and there will likely be variation even between
siblings. Cloning is a better method for propagation if you want to save a hybrid.


https://extension.colostate.edu/topic-a ... eds-7-221/
Happy gardening in Hawaii. Gardens are where people grow.

imafan26
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Re: How to Save & Preserve Seeds

Seeds are scarce now. I just checked some of the seed companies and ordered my catalogs. I did find a few seeds to buy, but most were sold out. It is the end of the season so seeds being sold out is not that unusual for this time of the year. However, some seeds have been sold out since June.

There have also been a few companies now that appear to have closed up shop permanently. TGN pumpkin nook (retired), Evergreen seeds, and Tatiana's tomato Base closed pre epidemic in 2019.

Covid 19 and the weather, drought and floods , have also impacted the availability of many seeds.
While it is great that a lot of people are discovering gardening. Demand for garden supplies has outstripped supply.

It is the end of the season for a lot of you. It is a good time to remember to save some of your best seeds for another year. While I'd love to exchange seeds, department of agriculture restrictions make it difficult, but not impossible.

Remember to make sure you put a label on the seeds asap. Label the variety and the date saved. I have been bad at doing this. I usually have to identify my seeds by looking at them. Even I forget.
Remember also that even seeds have a shelf life. Stored cool and dry is best. I store mine in the refrigerator. Take out only the seeds you need, not the whole bag. Changing temperatures is not good for seeds.

Some seeds only have a short viability like sweet corn, most seeds have decent germination for 3-5 years. A few seeds can go for ten years like beans and dill if stored properly. If you have a prized heirloom variety and you want to make sure that you will be able to keep the variety growing, you should replant the seeds in 3-4 years and make sure it is isolated so it will not cross pollinate and collect the seeds.

I have a bag of seeds that takes up a whole section in my refrigerator. I regularly have to go through the bag and I still end up with seeds that are too old to plant. I just threw away more old seeds I found from 2011. Some seeds were on the cusp so I planted them out. 2016 seeds pepper and kale failed to germinate. I will give them a second chance since my media also grew algae. If you have older seeds and want to know if it is still viable you can plant 10 out and check the germination rate. I plant them in compots, but paper towel germination works as well. In my case I also have to take into consideration that some seeds, like nasturtiums, won't germinate at the wrong time of the year, so the seed germination test is not accurate if the temperature is not right. I have some peppers drying that I am going to save seeds from. Luckily, I did label the pots. However, one of the peppers was only called long hot pepper, so I will have to just go with that.

I do have seeds from other plants like basil, and Jamaican oregano. I don't really save those because Jamaican oregano, rosemary, murraya koenegii, mints, thyme and Mexican mint marigold are perennials and easier for me to grow from cuttings. Some of these, although they produce seed, don't germinate well enough to make it worthwhile. Basil reseeds itself, so for me it is a weed. I only keep a few when I need replacements.

I do not save seeds from my cucumbers because they are parthenocarpic and rarely get pollinated although it does happen. The seeds would not necessarily breed true so it is not worth saving. It is also not worth saving seeds from hybrids for the same reason, but on occasion, I will try to save some seeds from a good variety to see what the progeny look like.

Although people have said peppers cross and I have been given some hybrid seed, I have not had that problem. I plant peppers right next to each other, but I have not had seeds naturally cross.
Happy gardening in Hawaii. Gardens are where people grow.

Vanisle_BC
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Re: How to Save & Preserve Seeds

I do miss Tatiana's tomato resources, although I think her huge (not updated) data base is still online.

Imafan, you mention Ag-dept making it difficult to mail seeds. Are you referring to state or federal (or international) regulations? When I checked into it a few years ago there were no obstacles to mailing small amounts of seed across the Canada/US border. I did send some tomato seed south and it was received, apparently without interference. I wonder if hings have changed.

Seed companies mail across borders all the time - although I suppose they may have special licenses or certification requirements.
"There are two kinds of people in the world - those who think there are two kinds of people in the world, and those who do not" - Robert Benchley

imafan26
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Location: hawaii, zone 12a 587 ft elev.

Re: How to Save & Preserve Seeds

It is the State of Hawaii department of Ag. Many places just won't send anything to Hawaii because of the rules to send it legally.

A phyto certificate is required. Certified nurseries can send out plants. Even seeds have to be inspected by the Ag department, packaged and stamped in front of them to be mailed. Live plants and seeds can be taken to the department of Ag for inspection if someone wants to get it stamped. Some things on a list will never be approved.

Incoming plant material will be stopped by inspectors if the sender does not have a phyto certificate and the dogs detect it in the mail.

Tatiana's tomato base is still up. It just has not been updated. I miss it too.
Happy gardening in Hawaii. Gardens are where people grow.

Vanisle_BC
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Re: How to Save & Preserve Seeds

Do any of you freeze your saved seed, and/or have information on how long that can extend viability? I'm thinking particularly of short-life seeds like onion, which are only supposed to be good for one year.

Tomato seed; I don't ferment it for saving, just rattle it around in a strainer under running water then let it dry spread out on a plate or any hard surface - not on paper towel or such, where it gets stuck & v. difficult to remove.

Up till now all my seed has been stored in the fridge, in paper envelopes inside a sealed plastic container. I don't even have a dessicant in there but it's been working fine.
"There are two kinds of people in the world - those who think there are two kinds of people in the world, and those who do not" - Robert Benchley

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TomatoNut95
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Re: How to Save & Preserve Seeds

I've actually never frozen my seed. But I try to use it or discard it within 3 years. I have heard that freezing seed does help them last longer. The reason I don't freeze my seed is because I have no space in my stupid box freezer for them.

As for tomato seed, I ferment mine for 2-3 days and they'll last me about 5 years.

imafan26
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Re: How to Save & Preserve Seeds

Seeds can be stored if they have been properly dried to about 5% moisture content and can be kept at an ideal constant temperature of around 15 C, in a dark container. Some seeds can be kept in the freezer long term, but you need to be careful to prevent them from icing so you probably need to double wrap and vacuum pack them. Not all seeds store well in the freezer. Seeds from plants that come from cold places where plants and seeds would normally overwinter in dormancy will do better than tropical seeds which have really short viability in most cases.

Seeds do not keep indefinitely and while some seed banks have kept seeds for 50 years or more, they do have to grow them out occasionally to get fresh seeds because germination rates continue to decline over time.

Heat and moisture and variations in temperature can shorten the life of seeds. You should only take out as much seed as you can use especially if you have bulk containers of seed so the seeds are not subject to changes in temperature and humidity changes.

There are charts available that list approximate number of years seeds can be viably stored. Some seeds do store longer than others. Even then, for most seeds, kept in good conditions, they can last about 3-5 years although germination rates may decline over that time. Some seeds like corn, does not last long about 3 years. I also don't get more than 3 years from zucchini. However, I have had bean, dill, and fennel seeds that were good 10 years later. I usually test seeds that are more than 3 years old or 5 years old. I pretty much give up on anything over 10 years old. I was surprised that lettuce and carrot seeds lasted longer than I thought , about 5 years. I do store my seeds in the refrigerator and I double store them in paper towels and zip loc bags and I try to only take out the seeds I need and not the whole bag if I can help it.
My bad, is that my seeds lose their labels especially the ones written with markers on plastic. I have to remember to put a piece of paper in the bag with the seed name and date. Some seeds, I collect on the fly and I am not prepared, so I have a lot of mystery seed. Some I can identify as dill or fennel, but tomato and pepper seeds all look alike. I have mislabeled beans. I planted what I thought was pole beans and they turned out to be long beans.

If you are collecting seeds they do have to be collected fully mature and separated from any pulp or chaff. Float test seeds before drying. Seeds that sink are good, floaters are trash. They need to be properly dried. Tomatoes, peppers, papaya, passion fruit and seeds that are coated, will need to be fermented first and then dried. Seeds should not be collected from diseased plants.

For many tropical plants seeds are non viable if they are dried and have to be used pretty much by planting the entire fruit or immediately after you eat it preferably within 24 hours of being picked. Chayote, mango, avocado, cacao are like that. Some seeds are coated because they are designed to be spread through an animals gut, so they need to have their coatings removed and some of them need scarification or special handling to improve germination. Some seeds like orchid seeds are grown in tissue or media culture because naturally they require a fungi for their seeds to survive.

If you store seeds for a long time, you should test their germination rate periodically to see if they are still good.

https://www.dlfpickseed.com/ag/technica ... ed-storage
https://ucanr.edu/blogs/blogcore/postde ... tnum=12950
https://www.clearcreekseeds.com/seed-viability-chart/
https://www.seminis-us.com/resources/ag ... -handling/
https://sbc.ucdavis.edu/About_US/Seed_Biotechnologies/Seed_Storage_Conservation/
Happy gardening in Hawaii. Gardens are where people grow.

Vanisle_BC
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Re: How to Save & Preserve Seeds

I don't find it true that tomato seed has to be fermented before saving. The single time I tried to do that, the seed sprouted in the 'ferment' water. Not sure what I did wrong but I haven't bothered doing it since. The biggest mistake I think I've made is occasionally saving from fruit that's not fully ripe.

I try to avoid plastic wherever possible but that's not easy. Of curse (edit; Haha, Freudian slip?) I have lots of plastic containers from before I started my war on it. I can keep using some of them for seed storage with a clear conscience :). Reuse, reuse ... But I try not to buy more of it - VERY difficult. I see that take-out foods and drinks are starting to come in cardboard containers instead of Styrofoam or hard plastic - Yay!

I noticed today that 2-3 of my Oregon Giant pea plants have not died although we have had some frost (not ground-freezing.) Their roots are under deep leaf mulch but the vines are not dead and still have a few green leaves. I wonder if it's possible to get them through the winter.
"There are two kinds of people in the world - those who think there are two kinds of people in the world, and those who do not" - Robert Benchley

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TomatoNut95
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Re: How to Save & Preserve Seeds

When you save seed from a tomato, make sure the fruit is completely vine ripened. Fermentation time length can depend on the weather. If it's hot and humid, the quicker it works. Check your fermenting seed daily. Immediately when you see a layer of mold on top of the water/tomato pulp mixture, rinse out the seed and spread out to dry.

imafan26
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Re: How to Save & Preserve Seeds

Usually it takes about 3 days to ferment the seed. All you are really after to to dissolve the coating on the seed. An alternative way to do it with seeds that have a gelatinous coat like passion fruit, pomegranate, papaya, and tomatoes and peppers is to hand wash them in a strainer and then you can dry them. Pepper seeds are less fussy than the other seeds, they don't have to be fermented, but some pepper seeds will then do better if they are soaked in potassium nitrate overnight to get through any residual dried coating. If the seeds sprouted instead of fermented, it may be because you did the fermenting in too much light or maybe it it was warmer. Ferments are best around 70 degrees. Warmer can cause seeds to sprout. Do not add water to the seeds and the ferment should be ready in 3 days. Discard floaters after you rinse the seeds.

The seed lab separates pulp from seed by putting the seed and pulp with water in a food processor and process using a dough blade. The dough blade is not sharp so it does not damage the seeds but separates the pulp from the seeds well enough that it can be easier to prep them for drying. This is actually the easiest way to get seeds out of eggplant.

If you are using saved seed for planting. You can heat treat seeds before planting just in case to try to kill any bacteria that may be on the outside of the seeds. It can be a preventive for some seed borne pathogens but still requires that the pathogen count be relatively low, so it does not work well if seeds are collected from plants that have active bacterial diseases.

Planting fresh seeds with the gelatinous coats does not stop them from germinating. It only becomes a problem when the coating dries, then it is like a plastic jacket around the seeds. This is especially true of seeds like papaya. You can actually see the shiny dried coating on papaya seeds that were not scrubbed before drying.

https://cpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/blogs.cor ... 7f56dy.pdf

https://www.permaculturenews.org/2014/0 ... ato-seeds/
Happy gardening in Hawaii. Gardens are where people grow.

Vanisle_BC
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Re: How to Save & Preserve Seeds

@imafan thanks for the information. Washing seeds while shaking them around in a strainer is what I do. The time I tried fermenting, when they sprouted, was years ago so I can't say why that happened. Quite possibly too much light as you suggest. I'm sure I wouldn't have had them in 70+ water. Anyway, the strainer washing works for me.
"There are two kinds of people in the world - those who think there are two kinds of people in the world, and those who do not" - Robert Benchley

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