blank slate!

[rainbowgardener]

People write in here saying we just bought a house and the yard is a blank slate. I always thought that sounded kind of fun, start from the beginning. I never have. But we just bought a house in Ringgold, GA, just over the line from TN. It has a pretty big yard and all of it flat and sunny (!), but it is indeed a blank slate:

front of house and yard.jpg (35.95 KiB) Viewed 6878 times

back yard.jpg (52.1 KiB) Viewed 6878 times

First thing I will do is rip out all the green balls across the front of the house!

Backyard doesn't look real sunny in the picture and there are some trees across the back, some of which could come down, they are scraggly, but in the afternoon while we were looking at it, it was all in sun.

Moving date is mid-Aug!

[imafan26]

Congratulations! I guess you were able to sell your house. Moving is stressful but it does force you to clean and purge.

I am looking forward to the progress report on your new house.

P.S. I don't care for mono culture or mono color in a yard either.

[rainbowgardener]

Agreed. Right now it is just flat, grass mono culture. Boring and worthless to wildlife. But leaves me lots of room to make it mine!

[sweetiepie]

Oh, so exciting, especially when you are not the one that has to pack everything up and do the moving. Love the house, we have several barn shaped houses here and I always love to see what they do with them.

I agree about the green balls, they look like work with out much contributing factor.

[applestar]

Congratulations! I'm so looking forward to hearing about everything you will do at your new place. Sort of typical of you to move in the middle of the summer though -- doesn't this mean you will be leaving almost everything behind?

Clean slate, indeed!

-- If we ever move, might insist we move during the dormant season..... --

[pinksand]

Yay! Congrats RBG, it looks like a beautiful blank slate to work with. Also, much less hilly than the back of your last property. I often wonder how much easier it would be to get some things done if I weren't working on such a slope myself

Applestar brought up an interesting point. Are you able to bring any favorites along with you? I'm dying to see what you do with the place!

[rainbowgardener]

By the time we are actually moving it is likely to be mid to late August. And yes, I will leave pretty much everything behind, as far as plants. I am hoping to take a whole bunch of my large containers, since those are expensive to replace, but I will likely take them empty, so they don't take up so much room in the truck.

And putting my mark on the blank slate will be a work in progress for a LONG time. The move is going to leave us cash poor for awhile. In the back, it has two decks, a smaller, upper level one that comes off the master bedroom and a very large lower level one that comes off the dining room:

back decks.jpg (51.32 KiB) Viewed 6862 times

Especially the big one is in very rough shape and much (all?) of the decking may need to be replaced. That will be job 1 to have nice outdoor living space. But I am really hoping to plant a few trees and shrubs in the fall.

Starting to look in to native plants for the area. Here in Cincinnati I am in zone 6a. I am moving to 7b, a zone and a half, but the border of zone 8 is not much farther south. So with winter protection, I might be able to have some plants that are only hardy to zone 8. Scarlet calamint (Clinopodium coccineum) is a nice small shrub, evergreen or semi-evergreen with red trumpet flowers that are attractive to hummingbirds, that is native only in MS, AL, GA, and FL. So now I will be in range to grow it. And coral bean (Erythrina herbacea) another red-flowering, hummingbird attractive shrub or small tree.

coral bean:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/dallasgardens-a ... detail.jpg

But I can't go too far in planning, because I don't yet know what my soil is like, probably clayish, but pH?

[GardeningCook]

"First thing I will do is rip out all the green balls across the front of the house! "


Awww. While I too don't like rows of manicured evergreens as landscape plantings, do you really have to kill them? While I know it would be a royal pain in the a** to transplant them elsewhere, if you don't want to go that route, how about allowing them to grow out untrimmed & do a nice perennial planting in from of them?

[applestar]

No no I say make them your first "victims" -- er -- CANDIDATES! -- for practicing bonsai techniques.

[imafan26]

This looks like a bigger house than the one you had before. It looks like you will have your work cut out for you inside and out. The good thing is that when winter comes you can't say you won't have anything to do.

You have to set up your new compost pile and the indoor gardening space. I guess you had to give up your community garden so at least that is one less place to take care of in the meantime.

How exiciting and exhausting.

[Allyn]

Grats!

I agree; I am not a fan of vast expanses of grass and globular shrubs lined up like toy soldiers in a row.

We moved into a blank slate in March. Before we moved in, I'd grabbed a screen shot of the satellite view of the property off Google Maps and imported it into my CAD program to start planning where things were going to go. (I love my CAD program!)

Welcome to the South. I wish cool weather for your move (but don't count on it. Georgia in August can be quite oppressive.)

[rainbowgardener]

No, in mid-Aug I am definitely not counting on cool weather. But this isn't gulf coast GA. It is No. GA mountains, just over the line from TN. So not quite as oppressive. But it will be more or less 90 deg and humid at both ends of the trip! Oh well. We started working on this in early Mar. This is just how long it took.

And yes, somehow we have managed to UPsize ourselves, though we really didn't go into it with that idea. Somewhat bigger house and somewhat bigger yard than what we have now. I am going from a bit less than a third of an acre (.29) to a bit more than a third of an acre (.38). But most of my current less than a third of an acre is steep and wooded and wild. I have hardly ever seen the back fourth of it. All of what I am moving to is flat and sunny and visible. That makes it more useful and more boring, so I will have to work on the boring part. Maybe put in a little artificial level change, like a berm ...

Good thought applestar ... possibly I can save enough of one of the green balls to try turning it in to bonsai. But I can't let them grow out where they are, they would cover the windows. And it is hard to try transplanting big old shrubbery, because you would have to dig forever and transplant shock still might kill them. I will keep the idea in mind though. They would be much more useful down the side of the back yard to provide privacy from neighbors.

Love getting everyone's ideas!

[rainbowgardener]

So here it is 1 AM and I am thinking about landscaping the front yard...

I think who ever used to own it (now deceased, we are buying it from the estate) was not very social. There is NO walkway to the front door, which is hard to see. For ourselves we can go in through attached garage. But didn't they ever have company? So one of the first projects would be to put in curving walkway from about midway in the driveway to the front door. Paint the front door. Put a couple of large containers on either side to mark it. So area between the walkway and house would all be raised bed foundation planting and similarly on opposite side. Use interlocking concrete blocks to front the beds and be able to raise them, maybe 12". Then at the front corner, out by the street, side opposite of driveway build a large berm diagonally, so that even if it had shrub, small tree it wouldn't block view from/of window.

(I need one of those CAD or photo shop programs to be able to show this)

They make those stackable blocks with all kinds of finishes, very natural looking

concrete blocks.png (161.61 KiB) Viewed 6825 times

Berm would be hugelkultur - lay down a bunch of old logs and sticks, cover with the turf I lifted and fill in with soil. I wonder where I could find properly broken down old logs? Have plenty of them here, but I don't know if it is worth moving them. I would make it maybe even 3' tall at first, given that it will settle as it breaks down.

That would get rid of a fair amount of the front grass monoculture already, make the house more welcoming, and give some level changes to break up the flat. Maybe even the larger foundation planting on the half of the house front farther from the driveway, step it down in two levels., closer part two blocks high and then one block high.

Anyway just preliminary thoughts in the wee hours of the AM.

[rainbowgardener]

You know I like to find inspiration pictures. So here's a few:

curving, raised foundation planting with stone edging

just a nice foundation planting with rocks and texture

front yard landscape ideas 2.jpg (48.14 KiB) Viewed 6816 times

berm

front yard landscape ideas 3.jpg (49.68 KiB) Viewed 6816 times

[rainbowgardener]

I think our house needs shutters for those windows!


https://hlrb.newrochelleny.com/images/pa ... 0house.png

and maybe window boxes:


https://www.housekaboodle.com/wp-content ... 00x450.jpg

with light shutters and window boxes, it would be a less brooding presence!

[applestar]

I like these ideas you are playing with
-- this is going to be SO MUCH FUN for you

[rainbowgardener]

I like these ideas you are playing with
-- this is going to be SO MUCH FUN for you

Indeed! It is fun already. I like imagining how I can make it more beautiful and more welcoming.

[pinksand]

Shutters and windowboxes would be lovely! What color would you go with?

How strange they didn't have a path to the front door! That definitely sounds like a good first plan of action. Your inspiration photos are beautiful. As you probably remember, I had a large green hedge in front of my house. I tried rounding it more, lowering the height and using it as a green backdrop for a garden in front. It seemed so sad to get rid of a perfectly healthy set of bushes... however I can say that after I took them out there wasn't a moment of regret. It would have been impossible to transplant 60 year old yews and as you said after you finally dig something like that out you're likely to lose them anyway. I know whatever you end up doing will be spectacular!

[ElizabethB]

Congratulations RBG. I can't wait to see photos of the inside as well as the yard.

Your yard is great! I love Berms and raised beds. They add so much texture and visual interest.

I do have a word of caution. You are moving to the south where termites are an issue. I strongly suggest that you create a gravel barrier from the house to 6" beyond the eaves. Build your beds out from there.

There are multiple advantages to a gravel barrier.

1. No soil or mulch next to the house = not ringing the dinner bell for termites
2. No "splash back" from the soil so less cleaning needed
3. No soil erosion from the drip line
4. A maintenance strip for the back side of the beds.
5. Very attractive and clean

You are far enough south to grow Crepe Myrtles!!! I LOVE Crepe Myrtles! My 2 favorites are the Natchez - a large specimen 25'+, pure white blooms and a cinnamon bark when it exfoliates, and Dynamite - the only true red - as in fire engine red bloom. A smaller tree 12' - 15' - perfect for a berm center piece.

The Crepe Myrtles are beautiful specimen trees but not shade trees.

For fast growing shade trees consider Drake Elm and Lace Bark Elm. Suitable for the south. Very fast growing. Maximum height about 35'. Small leaves that do not need to be raked.

Two other specimen trees that I love are Sweet Olive and Little Gem Magnolia. Both have a column growth habit. Both are evergreen and both have very fragrant blooms.

Southern gardens must have azaleas and hydrangeas.

I agree with ripping out the meatballs. A bright or light color and shutters on the front would be amazing!

BTW - if your Plumeria made it through the winter take them out of the pots and rinse the soil off of the roots for transport. Re-pot when you get to your new home.

Storms knock over my Plumeria. Recently a branch broke off. It sat on my patio table for three weeks. I just potted it 4 days ago. The wilted leaves have already perked up.

I am SOOO excited for you! I can't wait to see and hear more.

[GardeningCook]

This is just personal preference weighing in here, but Crepe Myrtles are SO OVERUSED these days that I'm sick of the sight of them - lol! Again - this is just personal preference. While I agree that the white & true red ones are nice (I myself have a sort of sad-looking white one), the Pepto-Bismol pink ones turn my stomach whenever I see them. And rather unattractive & scrubby-looking when not in bloom (which is most of the year). And unfortunately they are EVERYWHERE here in Piedmont Virginia.

Do yourself a favor & do LOOK at various Crepe Myrtles in bloom (and out of) before you commit one to your landscape.

(I do, however, have a new (as of late last year) beautiful little Crepe Myrtle bonsai that I'm looking forward to seeing the blooms on. The leaves are authentically bonsai-tiny & I'm hoping the blossoms will be the same.)

[ElizabethB]

Gardening Cook - I agree that the pink, lavender, and off red Crepe Myrtles are over used and are BORING!

What turns my stomach is seeing Cree Myrtles butchered. Crepe Murder.

That is why I like the pure colors of the Natchez and the Dynamite. The key to year round beauty is proper pruning. During winter when there are no leaves or blooms a well pruned Crepe Myrtle is a natural abstract sculpture. Proper pruning of a Crepe Myrtle is like Bonsai on a large scale. Pruning from all sides and especially the inside of the tree to create a healthy, pleasing structure.

My 2 cents.

[rainbowgardener]

Thanks so much for all the suggestions. Crepe myrtle is all over the place down there. My partner definitely wants some azalea; it is on the list. But azalea doesn't like full sun, so I may have to make some shade for it first. And I still don't know my soil pH. Azaleas are acid lovers. The area there is famous for red clay so that's probably what I have (it's ok, where I am now it's yellow clay so I'm used to it), but I don't know if I can find out soil pH ahead of time.

E - thanks so much for the suggestions about moving the plumeria. All three of them that made it to winter, made it through. They are doing well, doubled in size from when you sent them and very leafy. Are they likely to bloom this year? What season do they bloom in? And good information about the gravel strip - will do!

E - Re: " Your yard is great. I love berms and raised beds." Was I clear that the flat boring grass monoculture is my (soon to be) yard? The pictures of berms and raised beds are just pics I found on-line as inspiration pictures for ideas I have for improving it.

I may leave the green balls until fall since that would be better time for transplanting them. Then try moving them to the backyard for privacy on the side. But I don't hold out a lot of hope whether I can successfully dig them up and whether they would survive the move.

[ElizabethB]

RBG - earlier I typed a nice reply and my STUPID lap top froze. Lost it all. Trying again.

Yes - I do realize that the berms and raised beds are your "wish list". I am a big fan of both. a great way to add texture and visual interest to a flat yard.

A couple of suggestions for material.

Check with your city/county government. Many communities have compost facilities. In Lafayette we have yard waste pick up. It goes to the compost facility. Landscapers and arborists bring their waste to the facility and pay a fee to dump. Parish residents can pick up fully cured compost FREE! The system employed is complex and the resulting material is ready to use. I have built beds and berms with City Compost.

Contact local Arborists. Some of the larger companies will utilize chipper trucks. If you ask they will dump a load at your home FREE rather than pay to dump. If you get a load or two in the fall it will be ready to use in 9 to 12 months.

Just a thought - make soil test a #1 priority. Get to know your County Agent. My County agents are my friends.

The thought of trying to remove the "meat balls" makes me cringe. The root systems are deep and intertwined.

The first landscaping job I encountered that required the removal of foundation planting was a disaster. I priced the shrub removal figuring 6 hours X 4 strong, young men.

At the end of the day my guys were nearly prostrate from exhaustion and only 1/4 of the plants had been removed.

I made lots of phone calls and located a Mini Excavator operator. $400 to remove and haul off all of the shrubs. The first and last time I ever attempted to manually remove existing shrubs.

Azaleas do not necessarily need shade. Drive around your community. You will see Azaleas growing and flourishing in full southern sun. Hydrangeas can tolerate full sun but they suffer. They do best with morning sun.

I am so glad your plumeria survived. Mine are blooming but they are all mature. If you put them back in pots when you move, move them in over winter then give them lots of water and some Bloom Booster when you move them out in the spring you will probably have blooms next summer.

Something to consider. You are moving to a very different environment. You and/or your partner may want to enroll in the Master Gardener program. You will get a crash course in region specific horticulture, give back to your new community with your volunteer work and make lots of new friends who are as passionate about gardening as you are. You will get "first dibs" on experimental cultivars and you will have lots of friends willing to give you cuttings, divisions and starts.

Next to your Quaker Meetings MG is the next best way to immerse yourself and become part of your new home.

Since you have sooo much work to do in your yard consider getting a Landscape Contractor or Horticultural Specialist license. You can buy plants, soil, stone and any other landscaping material wholesale.

I am really thrilled for you.



BTW - before you install a gravel barrier contact me for specifics on the best "how to".

[rainbowgardener]

Thanks so much E for all the suggestions/ help. Yeah, that had been my initial thought about the green balls, too. There are companies that will come and slice them off and then drill the roots out with a huge augur, very quick. I had it done once with shrubs that were three times the size of these.

Great ideas about city (or probably county, since our town is so small) compost and about arborists. I will keep this thread marked to come back to when we are ready.

I checked, my county doesn't have a Master Gardener program. There are some in other GA counties. I don't even know what other counties are near us, yet. But Hamilton County TN (where Chattanooga is) does have an MG program. We are 10 min from Chatt. But I don't know if you have to be a TN resident to participate. It looks like they have a good coop extension program. I will check it out when we are settled. Their next class isn't until Jan next year anyway. I still want to find out more about the course content. I'm just not willing to sit through people telling me what poisons to use for what problems, and then maybe there's one chapter about organic gardening at the end. If they will let me see a syllabus or something, I will think about it.

[Susan W]

Blank slate you do have! A few suggestions, FWIW.
Do what you have to do at first. Even if $$ and people power no problem, a total make-over too soon and there will be expensive regrets.

Leave the green balls for now, keep tops trimmed below windows, let sides grow out to more natural. I am sure for selling they had everything buffed and trimmed.

Sun-shade. It takes time and being there to get to know your yard and seasons. Get your compost set-up in, perhaps till a small veggie area to be more plantable come April.

Crepe myrtles? Pretty landscape tree. Not native, doesn't seem to attract pollinators. Also a new mess of really bad cooties hitting it. This is a scale peculiar to the crepe myrtle. Only 2 ways known now to deal with it. The worst chemicals-systemic drenched in soil or cutting down tree.

Azaleas not native, well, a couple native to there. Check out the rhodedendrons. They don't do well here, but are happy and native in E TN. Here the azaleas do very well on north and east exposures.

You talk about natives. Here's your chance to play! Make a woodsy area using the large trees as base. Check the native shrubs, oak leaf hydrangea and small trees (dogwood, redbud) that prefer the understory, part sun. You can make a lovely native woodland plant area in there.

Resources. That will take time. I prefer to keep a polite distance from the MG here, as they go heavy use in non-natives and chemical treatments for anything. Take time to find garden centers. There are a couple of nurseries in the region that specialize in native plants/shrubs.

Hope this helps

[ElizabethB]

RBG - MG programs vary from state to state and even count to county. I went through the program in 201. It was the 3rd class in Lafayette Parish. At the time there was a lot of discussion of chemicals.

The program has changed greatly in the intervening years. There is a chapter on pest and disease control but the focus is more on prevention and natural treatments. There is some discussion of chemicals. My sister is the program moderator. She and the County Horticulturalist work closely with LSU to suggest chemicals that have the least environmental impact. Chemicals are not "pushed". The information is put out there for those who want to use chemicals. It is only one chapter/lesson. The rest of the program is well worth the time and effort.

Oh - our program has a heavy focus on native gardening or gardening with plants that have been around so long that they just as soon be native. Azaleas are a good example. They are originally from China.

Some states do have reciprocity in their MG Programs. Neighboring counties within the same state will usually accept one or 2 individuals or couple from another county.

I have learned so much and gotten such joy from my association with MG. Take what you want, leave the rest alone and enjoy the fellowship.


How is the packing going? Another task that I do not envy.

Good luck

[pinksand]

I know two MG in my area, one knows nothing about native plants and uses chemicals while the other plants lots of natives and from what I can tell from conversations appears to be chemical free. I'm sure the program is continually evolving and it probably varies greatly.

I just wanted to also note that as Elizabeth said, azaleas can do just fine in full sun (at least the non-native ones). If your partner loves them, I wouldn't let lack of shade shy you away. I have close to 30 of them of varying sizes, located in various light conditions. I actually find my azaleas located in full sun display the healthiest leaves and flower the most. From my experience I think their happiness and health is much more dependent on the soil. A friend of mine has mostly clay soil that's slightly alkaline and her poor azaleas have done very poorly with the minor soil amendments that have been made. She was going to throw out one that looked crispy and dead and had been very badly attacked by azalea lace bugs but I told her I'd take it. I did nothing but stick it in the ground and it perked up, put out new leaves, and bloomed beautifully the next spring. My soil is loose and acidic so pretty much ideal for azaleas.

Here are a couple of my azaleas sited in full sun. The photos are from my first spring in the house a few years ago and I've since pruned them into a more natural shape. I should take photos next spring for comparison as I think they look much better now! Anyway, here's proof they don't necessarily suffer through life in full sun...

[rainbowgardener]

There is a native azalea, the flame azalea - it is a deciduous shrub and gets pretty big. I also love mountain laurels (kalmia). They are native in the whole eastern US from New Hampshire to FLA, including GA and TN. Nice to know azaleas can handle sun. I always thought of it as a shade plant. Your azaleas are gorgeous, pinksand!

Planting natives is very important to me. That isn't to say I might not break down and plant something non-native, as long as most of what I plant is native and the non-native is not invasive.

Have not yet started packing, except what we had to to for de-cluttering to have the house ready to show. We did rent a storage unit and put a bunch of boxes in there. We move in 5 weeks! A lot to do between now and then!

[GardeningCook]

Yes, it's true that azaleas can do well in full sun. The biggest problem isn't so much the full sun, as full-sun exposure can severely increase the possibility of infestations of Azalea Lace Bugs &/or Azalea Leaf Miners - both of which can be very debilitating & both of which tend to steer towards azaleas growing in full sun.

[Allyn]

Elizabeth mentioned termites, which was a good call; but that got me thinking about what I've had to contend with down here that I didn't up north. Two things come immediately to mind: fleas and fire ants. Yes, you have fleas up north, but down here, they aren't seasonal. They are active year round so it's an ongoing concern especially if you have pets. Fire ants are horrible creatures and you don't want them anywhere on your property. Horrible, horrible, aggressive creatures....... They get their name from the intense burning sensation that the initial stings cause and then the subsequent itching (which lasts for days afterward) is enough to make you lose your sanity. (Ask me how I know that. Go ahead, ask me.) Do some reading on fire ants, because you definitely want to be ahead of that. Horrible, horrible creatures. . . .

[rainbowgardener]

Oh jeez...fire ants! People write in here about them frequently, so I've read a lot. But I've never seen one and hadn't thought about the fact that I am moving in to fire ant territory.

I looked up this map

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/Storytelling ... f3d7b66644

Where I will be in very north GA is clearly in the range, though sort of at the northi-ish end of it.

Thanks for the heads up!

[ElizabethB]

DITTO Allyn on the fire ants.

Not only do the bites burn then itch for days but they form pustules. 2 or 3 months ago I was working in the yard with G and stepped in a Fire Ant mound. I had over 2 dozen bites on my feet. Yeah - I was wearing flip-flops. I had 5 bites on the big toe of my left foot. I can still see the scars.

RBG I am with you on not using chemicals but you may have to bite the bullet on this one. I have tried everything with no result. I have "Bitten the Bullet" and use Ortho Dust. It stinks to high heaven but works within 24 hours. Seriously - you don't play nice with fire ants.

Fleas are another issue. My cats are indoor cats. Fleas are rarely an issue. Apparently we brought a flea in on our clothes from working in the yard. I noticed Sallie Sue scratching and biting and I saw a flea on Daisy Faye's face.

I gave them both baths and ordered some flea treatment. I hate to do it but if I do not the fleas will infest the house. It happened once before.

If you do not have pets the fleas are not such a big deal.

Do you realize how involved every one is in your move and your new adventure? I don't know about the other Guys and Gals but I am just a little jealous that you and your partner are starting over.

[Allyn]

Oh! and Palmetto bugs! I've seen distribution maps that show palmetto bugs up north, but I never saw one until I moved down here. They don't bite or sting, but they're so big (I've seen them over three inches and my husband swears he saw one that was almost five inches) that even if you're not squeamish about bugs, you'll suck in a deep breath and back up a few steps the first time you see one. There's just something really creepy about an insect that is so big, that even from across the room, you can clearly see it lift its head and look over its shoulder at you.

Elizabeth is right. Fleas aren't a big deal, but because we don't have the winter weather that keeps the flea population outside in check, it's just an ongoing concern that I didn't have to contend with up north.

My husband kills fire ants with a few tablespoons of gasoline dribbled on the mound. For anything else, I'd fuss at him for doing that; but honestly, I want the fire ants gone at all costs. I've had three run-ins with fire ants and I have the scars on my feet and ankles to show for it. Horrible, horrible creatures.... :::shaking my head, wandering in a circle and muttering like Rain Man:::: Horrible, horrible creatures.....yes, horrible creatures...

[rainbowgardener]

I will just have to wait and see what shows up on my property and then figure out how to deal with it!

I sincerely hope it isn't those palmetto bugs. I used to be a big insect-o-phobe. Over the years of gardening, I have worked hard on that and am much better than I used to be. But still pretty sensitive and squeamish. That one would give me nightmares!

Don't tell me too much more or I might have to change my mind!

Right behind our back yard is a horse farm and the next property over from that has cows. I have no idea whether that all means that there will be more bugs or maybe if the bugs would prefer the farms and stay away from me (fingers crossed! )

[applestar]

HEARING THAT ABOUT HORSES AND COWS Right away, I'm thinking... BLUEBIRD HOUSES!

Maybe Bat houses and Purple Martin houses, too.

...also, maybe first order of business this fall should be beneficial nematodes even if you end up killing them because you have to resort to chemical arsenal.

[rainbowgardener]

Nice ideas, applestar! Definitely! We were down visiting our new house Sun and Mon for home inspection, termite inspection, appraisal, and to do some measuring, to think about what furniture will go where and what to leave behind, etc.

Anyway, we noticed our backyard smelling pretty horsey... wasn't like that the past visit. I hope it is just the way the wind was blowing or the humidity levels or something. I guess we have to get used to being country girls! In the meantime, it should mean I have access to as much horse manure as I want! Being strictly in the city, I've never gardened with manure.... Lots of new stuff to learn.

[GardeningCook]

Horse manure is the best!! (Of course, spoken from someone who has five of the beasts & thus a lot of manure to play with. . . .) Key is to compost it well. After 6+ months it turns into the most beautiful crumbly (& non-horsey smelling) stuff you've ever gardened with.

[imafan26]

If there are horses and cows around expect giant flies. Unfortunately the fly trap I know works stinks like rotting meat, so I don't know if that is better.

Amdro works on fire ants but it is not good for the edible garden.

I also found out the hard way that terro works on sweet ants but the fire ants are protein ants so you need to find the right kind of bait for them. The really hard part is finding something other than amdro.

https://www.extension.org/pages/68606/th ... a-9nvlViko

[GardeningCook]

If there are horses and cows around expect giant flies.

Maybe in Hawaii, but where I've been living in Virginia for nearly 20 years now, flies have never been much of a problem. And I'm surrounded by other horse owners and a beef cattle farm. Everyone keeps their animals well, & I go the extra mile by buying & distributing fly predators every year. Again - no fly problems. In fact, I've even been able to do away with using fly spray, masks, sheets, etc. on the horses. Because even with property-to-property livestock, it just isn't a problem here.

Having livestock owners as neighbors does not automatically mean you're going to have a pest problem.

[Allyn]

...Having livestock owners as neighbors does not automatically mean you're going to have a pest problem.

I concur. There are horses and goats on three sides of our property and they come right up to the fence, not 20 feet from my front porch. I don't have pest problems from my neighbors. If there is a smell, I don't notice it. I grew up in a rural area, we had our own animals (including horses), and I worked at a thoroughbred stable, so if there is a "smell," I just attribute it to living in the country and that's how the country smells.

Views from my front porch: