Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:34 am
Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:20 am
Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:39 am
Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:52 pm
Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:53 pm
Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:30 pm
Albert_136 wrote:My thought is that "organic" in food and food production is quasi-religious. Persons sort of follow a complicated belief system. Some benefits result.
Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:57 pm
Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:16 pm
rainbowgardener wrote:Gary, it seems like you do a little more than this post suggests. Here's some quotes from some of your posts this spring.
"I grow okra here in TN every summer I mix 15/15/15 and Urea 50/50 then give a 20 ft row an empty soup can full of fertilizer. "https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=72272&p=407899&hilit=urea#p407899
So what it takes less than 2 minutes to fertilize 30 plants.
"Pear tree is no different than, apple, peach, plum, and other fruit trees. Give it lots of nitrogen. Buy a bag of Urea at farm supply store give tree 3/4 cup of [15-15-15] fertilizer and 10 gallons of water 1 time each week." https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/ ... ea#p407567
So what I worked in an orchard 48 years ago.
"For years I have used peat moss it is very dense and goes a long way and excellent compost material and pepper plants love it.... I am going to put a whole bag of peat moss in a 30 ft row for bell peppers and squash. ...When I till in the peat moss I till in fertilizer too, Urea for corn, 15/15/15 for the rest of the garden" https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/ ... ea#p404776
So what 5 minute job to till a bag of pear moss into soil for bell peppers.
"When planting in the garden I dig a 10" flower pot size hole for each tomato plant then dump in about 1/4 cup of 15/15/15 fertilizer. Cover the fertilizer with about 2" of soil then plant the tomatoes. I have 4 large 30 gallon black plastic trash cans I guess I will pack trash cans with leaves and 5 cups of wood ash and 1 cup of UREA fertilizer then leave them in full sun in 30 days in 95 degree water it will be finished compost. "
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/ ... ea#p404171
So what 10 minute job to dig holes for tomatoes after soil has been tilled.
etc etc. This: https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/ ... ea#p391879 is a thread from last year where you and I had a discussion about these issues.
Nothing 15/15/15 is organic ; organic fertilizers are not nearly that concentrated. And Urea is manufactured industrially via the Haber process from petrochemicals with very high energy inputs. It is an extremely concentrated N source which is used in the manufacture of explosives and can easily burn your plants.
Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:46 pm
Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:53 am
Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:30 am
Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:27 pm
Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:52 pm
I think that we are really talking about three different models of gardening farming, not two (organic or not):
What we tend to call conventional/ traditional, but has only become "traditional" in my lifetime, since WWII. I call it chemical gardening: Gardening in monocultures ( a field that is all one crop, e.g. corn), plowing/tilling, synthetic fertilizers, chemical herbicides and pesticides.
Organic gardening (especially commercial organic farming)- Probably still monocultures, probably still plowed/ tilled, uses things like compost / manure/ compost tea instead of synthetic fertilizers, uses hand weeding or things like vinegar, citrus for herbicide, Bt and things like garlic-pepper spray for pesticides, no synthetic herbicides and pesticides.
What I call ecological/ natural gardening, related to things like permaculture and biodynamic gardening: No monocultures, very diverse plantings, no tilling, composting in the field, mainly using only what comes from the field and mulch and cover crops, companion planting, trap crops, interplanting, relying on beneficial insects, use of birds, toads, ducks etc to control pest populations, chicken tractors for fertilization...
So the chemical gardener sees the pest and reaches for some kind of poison spray. The organic gardener sees the pest and reaches for something like Bt spray. The ecological gardener sees the pest and tries to figure out how to adapt the garden ecology to keep everything in balance, and probably doesn't spray anything except water.
Of course most of us exist somewhere along this continuum and are not perfectly any one 100% of the time!
Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:31 pm
rainbowgardener wrote:I
So I am certainly not perfect, but I strive for natural/ ecological gardening. Allowing pests in my garden so that their predators will be attracted. Working to plant flowers that will attract beneficial insects. Feeding the bugs to the chickens and the chicken poop to the compost pile. Keeping bird houses and bird feeders and baths. Making spaces for the toads and lizards to be comfortable in my garden. I strive towards closed loop gardening - nothing* added from outside, nothing wasted.
*Or as little as possible. Since the chickens are now part of the loop, the basis of their diet is purchased chicken feed. I'm not sure enough of myself just to feed them from the garden, though they do eat a lot of garden greens and kitchen scraps along with their commercial feed.
Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:08 pm