drainey0
Senior Member
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:16 pm

Was thinking of MiracleGro Natures Care Raised Bed Soil

Need to start filling in my raised garden beds with some organic soil (soil with no chemicals added) was wondering if you guys have any good suggestion.

Was thinking about going with this soil:

Natures Care Raised Bed Soil
Natures Care Raised Bed Soil
NATURES-CARE-RAISED-BED-SOIL.jpg (26.34 KiB) Viewed 4641 times
Then I was thinking of the land fill dirt but was worried about all the junk they might put into it what's your guys opinion?

AnnaIkona
Greener Thumb
Posts: 801
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:20 pm
Location: Canada zone 8b

You'd have to buy a lot of those bags to fill a raised bed. I suggest looking up local bulk soil companies. Their soil is super cheap ($13 /yard)

drainey0
Senior Member
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:16 pm

My bed are only 1ft by 1 ft I'm thinking one bag will cover most of it.

User avatar
JC's Garden
Senior Member
Posts: 280
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 10:43 pm
Location: Moultrie, GA Planting Zone 8, Sunset Zone 31

The big question is "What do you plan on growing?". Annuals and perennials require different types of soil. Most of the bagged soil I've seen holds too much water and needs to be mixed with a sandy soil or perlite to prevent root rot. How much to mix depends on what you want to grow and how much organic matter is in the bagged soil.

User avatar
rainbowgardener
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 25279
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: TN/GA 7b

You made raised beds that are only one foot square? Why? You said plural, so why not make one bigger bed?

If you made four 1' x 1' beds, you have only four square feet of growing area and you used 16 linear feet of edging materials.

If you make one 4' x 8' bed, you have 32 square feet of growing area with 24 linear feet of edging material (I.e. eight times as much growing space for only 1.5 times as much edging). And it takes up a lot less garden space, since you have to have walking paths between your little square foot gardens.

Maybe you heard about square foot gardening and took it a little literally? The square foot gardeners use bigger beds and just section the square feet off with twine.

drainey0
Senior Member
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:16 pm

I'm growing cucumbers. Peppers, snow peas, jalapeños, and tomatoes. I did 1x1 so I could space things out the way I wanted them spaced out.

drainey0
Senior Member
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:16 pm

so should I use dirt from the land fill........go to a soil bulk soil company...... or buy the bag of soil I linked previously?

Mr green
Green Thumb
Posts: 372
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:08 pm
Location: Sweden

Soil from your land fills might be heavilly polluted I reckon so I would avoid that for growing food. Bagged soil/organic matter to improve what you have on sight would be my best suggestion. I would rather get soil from a bulk company if they can tell me how/where their soil is from/made.

imafan26
Mod
Posts: 13962
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:32 am
Location: Hawaii, zone 12a 587 ft elev.

The label says it can be used like potting mix and does not need to be mixed with soil, but it is an expensive way to go . How deep is the bed and is it on soil or a concrete patio. Tomatoes will need to have deep soil only one tomatoe will fit in 1 square and you will need a trellis, cage, or pole for it to climb on unless you get a determinate like New Big Dwarf which is more like a tree tomato that grows less than 3 ft tall, but even that needs staking. One pepper in each square You could probably put 3 cucumbers in one square with a trellis to climb up. I don't know where you live, but snow peas are a cool season crop and the rest are warm season. There is oly a small window of overlap. I have planted up to nine of those or beans in an 18 gallon pot.

You may have to make some choices since you only have 4-1 ft square beds and too many plants for them. Most of the plants will want to be 8-12 inches deep. The tomatoes probably would want to be even deeper.

If you are planning to space the plants out anyway, why not grow them in pots. 18 gallon pots will be good for 1 indeterminate tomato, Peppers can grow in tall pots. I like to use egg cans or 5 gallon buckets. I plant cucumbers in 15 gallon buckets and peas and beans I plant in 18 gallon pots since I can usually put about 9 plants in one pot on a tomato trellis. Containers allows you to move them to give each plant the space they need and you would use potting soil in the pots. The nature made soil will work but it takes a 2 cu ft bag of potting soil to fill an 18 gallon pot. The organic soil will still need to be supplemented with fertilizer. Fish emulsion, manure tea, bone meal, blood meal, kelp meal, or fish meal, and it is better to use a mix like promix which contains mycorrhizzae to help with the uptake of nutrients. Organic in pots is difficult since organic fertilizers do not have nutrients readily available to the plants without being mineralized by the soil bacteria first. There is not much soil bacteria present in a pot and even less in a potting mix that has been sitting around for a while. If you are planning on planting heavy feeders like tomatoes and peppers it would be difficult to get them to grow and produce well without suplementing with fertilizer.

https://www.pthorticulture.com/en/produc ... e-organik/

drainey0
Senior Member
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:16 pm

I've already bought the cedar to make the 1x1 1ft deep beds and I've already got a plan on what to add to my soil such as blood and bone meal and banana peels ......... I'm just wondering what soil to go with.

drainey0
Senior Member
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:16 pm

I'm making about 8 beds 6 1x1 1ft deep and 2 2x1 1ft deep on top of soil.

imafan26
Mod
Posts: 13962
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:32 am
Location: Hawaii, zone 12a 587 ft elev.

The soil mix you have chosen is organic and so is the promix, there are other choices like black Kow in other parts of the country. I don't think it matters. Just look at the ingredients to make sure it is organic. If it is certified it will have the OMRI stamp on it. As long as you know that you will probably have to supplement with additional fertilizer.

This product only recently came out, so I have not used it. Scott's came out with a bunch of new products this year. Tell us how it worked out later.

I could not find 2 cu ft bag of MG potting mix so I am trying hyponex again. I used it before and it worked until they started replacing too much of the peat moss with compost, but it looks like they have reformulated, so I guess I will find out after I try it.

User avatar
applestar
Mod
Posts: 30514
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 7:21 pm
Location: Zone 6, NJ (3/M)4/E ~ 10/M(11/B)

Before you go ahead with this project, why don't you tell us a bit more about what you are trying to do?

-- technically 1 foot (12 inches) square box is not called raised bed but more like a container, and so far, most of the members who posted comments (I believe) are seeing inherent problems based on our experiences. This is a SMALL container for growing any of the plants you mentioned. Let us help you plan it out.

drainey0
Senior Member
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:16 pm

Will I basically wanna grow vegtable in a raiseded bed. I've only got limited space and I'm putting the raised beds on top of soil. The squares I've made are 1x1 and there 1ft deep and then I have 2 2x1's rectangle that are also 1 ft deep I don't understand why people are saying this ain't enough to plant in when there is soil under neath that the roots could keep growing into..... I'm putting one plant per "container".

User avatar
applestar
Mod
Posts: 30514
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 7:21 pm
Location: Zone 6, NJ (3/M)4/E ~ 10/M(11/B)

How fertile and loose is the soil? How much prep work were you planning to do to the soil underneath? If thoroughly worked for planting, then they will have the advantage to grow roots into the underlying soil, but it would be difficult to do so from inside the 1x1 fame. So you would do this first. But all the fluffing will make it unstable for the frames to rest on.

Otherwise, these might as well be solid bottom containers because plant roots will stay where they are comfortable.
drainey0 wrote:I'm growing cucumbers. Peppers, snow peas, jalapeños, and tomatoes. I did 1x1 so I could space things out the way I wanted them spaced out.
As imafan described, they grow to occupy much more airspace than 1x1 or even 1x2. They would normally occupy corresponding amount of space below ground (or get root bound in a container -- with open bottom, they will escape below, but will not grow as vigorously as in loose rich soil). How far apart did you intend to set them apart?

Do you understand that visually, 1x1 is inadequate and disproportionate box for most of these? Jalapeño will look OK planted one each as you said. A collar of 1 ft cube is not a whole lot of advantage when all is said and done for a tomato or a cucumber plant... But more than none certainly.

I know, I sound discouraging, and I don't mean to. It sounds like you built the frames already, and they may still be useful if used to the plants' advantage for the right kind of plants.

There ARE some varieties of tomatoes that would look good in them, for instance, just can't see it for normal indeterminate varieties that can grow to 6-7 ft tall and 3 to 4 feet wide. Hm, do you plan on pruning to just one or two stems?

drainey0
Senior Member
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:16 pm

if I have to ill undo some of the board and make them bigger by screwing blocks between two 1x1 board and make its into one 2x1 board and make more 2x1 raised beds and go from there....... also I'm not worried about looks as long as the plants grow I'm happy, don't need it looking pretty.


https://imgur.com/a/tphcr

drainey0
Senior Member
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:16 pm

ill admit I'm new to all of this and everyday I do research and learn more. I have the money to buy bags of soil for what I wanna plant just don't know what the best thing to buy is.... as I said before I wanna do organic but I want the plants to deliver....... so pls if you know a good soil that is all premixed with what ever it may need(peat moss/ compost/soil or what ever else that needs to be added) for the plants to thrive then pls let me know what to buy.

User avatar
applestar
Mod
Posts: 30514
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 7:21 pm
Location: Zone 6, NJ (3/M)4/E ~ 10/M(11/B)

Personally, I'm suspicious of miracle grow 's organic bandwagon products -- this is strictly prejudice since I haven't tried using any.

I've bought Espoma and Dr. Earth organic garden soil before and was happy with them. They are usually available at garden centers. I just found out that my local Agway carries full line of Espoma products in big bag sizes. My local ACE hardware carries both Espoma and Dr. Earth too but they don't have the really big bags of fertilizers. If you live on the West coast or Midwest, Fox Farm gets good reviews, but I don't see a whole lot of them around here and haven't had the chance to try them. And Northeast/Maine has Lobster of Maine products that I really like.

I tend to add sand just because -- my underlying soil is clay so I like to add sand whenever I add extra organic matter to eventually get to the "sandy loam" tri-(something) -- sudden mindblank.

drainey0
Senior Member
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:16 pm

does espoma or dr.earth have everything you would need in a bag or would I need to add stuff.

would this be good?
https://www.google.com/shopping/product/ ... gQodI_wO0g

another link to there homepage: https://drearth.net/products/organic-soi ... arden-mix/

Would this have everything I would need to plant vegetables in? I'm assuming its organic because of the OMRI cert. label......also applestar did you get a look at the imgur link I posted it shows the seeds I used.

User avatar
Meatburner
Senior Member
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:00 pm
Location: SW MO zone 6b

drainey0, I am following this and it seem you are looking for an "easy button", which doesn't work well with in gardening. You have to bob and weave and learn from season to season and get some experience as to what works in your climate/area. Nothing is set in stone in gardening.

drainey0
Senior Member
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:16 pm

not looking for the easy button just wanna know what soil is the best or do I need to buy soil and mix stuff in........ if the soil I listed doesn't need to have stuff added to it then great......... but that the thing I don't wanna sit there and buy this stuff thinking that is all I need and water and then go to find out I was doing it all wrong from the get go....... not sure how you got I was looking for a easy way to do this stuff.

User avatar
Meatburner
Senior Member
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:00 pm
Location: SW MO zone 6b

draineyO, you really need to contact your local extention service for advise. They have a wealth of information for your location. There is no one answer that fits all in gardening. Experience will benefit you.

drainey0
Senior Member
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:16 pm

there may not be the one answer fits all but if someone has a type of soil or a bag of soil that someone has bought that basically comes with everything in it that one would need to start then that the info I would need. BTW thank you for reminding me I am in North Carolina guys and gals but I still pretty set on buying bags of soil simple cause I don't trust buying a soil from a source where I'm not sure where it has been or what has be in or around it.

but back to what I was asking would this soil https://drearth.net/products/organic-soi ... arden-mix/
be pretty good for what I'm trying to do?

imafan26
Mod
Posts: 13962
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:32 am
Location: Hawaii, zone 12a 587 ft elev.

If you buy soil mix, it rarely has enough fertilizer to carry it through for the life of the plant, especially if you are talking about organic.
There are many organic mixes on the market. As I said before the Nature brand is made by Scott and they make a lot of products including MG potting mix. Since this is a relatively new product we cannot comment on it but just tell you about products we have actually tried like
Dr. Earth
Gardener and Bloom
Black Kow
Black Magic
and then there is Mel's Mix in which you buy the components and mix it together.

Bagged soil will not contain much live bacteria, as most have been heat treated to kill unwanted weeds and pathogens. If like promix, mycorrhizzae have been added, you have to have a relatively fresh product that has been stored properly and not out in the hot sun.

Other ways to introduce beneficial bacteria would be through adding a little bit of fresh but cured compost or vermicast to seed the mix with beneficial bacteria. EM1 would be another product to build the microbia.

Organic in pots is very difficult to do because of the small size of the container and relatively low numbers of soil bacteria present. The way organic fertilizer works is that the soil microbes need to convert the fertilizer into its elemental form before the plant can use it. It is also why I am recommending you supplement with fish emulsion, compost tea, manure tea because the nutrients in those forms are a little more available and compost tea and manure tea will also add organisms.

If you are using your boxes just as an edging it does not matter. But most of the plants you want to grow will not have enough room in such a small container once they size up. Even though the bottom of the box is open, plant roots do not readily transition from one type of soil to another. the plant will encounter the different soil and stay in box, especially if the soil underneath is hard and does not have any more nutrients than what is already in the box. You might get some of the roots to explore the soil if it has some good qualities but it doesn't always happen.

The same thing happens when someone plants a pot bound plant and does not tease or score the roots and just digs a hole in the ground without adding any compost or nutrients to make it more inviting to the roots. If some of the roots are not teased out or scored to force root branching, the plant will grow as though it is in the same pot and not move out into essentially sterile soil. The plant won't reall grow very much that way and you won't get the best production.

You have also chosen to start with not only large plants but heavy feeders like tomato and peppers which need a lot of nitrogen available in the beginning to sustain growth and organically in a pot that is hard to accomplish without supplementing. It will still not be as productive as a tomatoe grown in synthetic fertilizer. Synthetic fertilizer given in the right amount at the right time can give the plant what it wants when it wants it. Organic fertilizers release slowly and unpredictably and there are a lot of factors influencing its release.

Until you get the hang of things, it would be better to start with something less challenging like beans which can be inoculated to increase nitrogen fixation. You will have to figure out what mix works best for you and what combination of fertilizer, drainage, organic matter you need to make it all work. It is going to be trial and error in the beginning.

drainey0
Senior Member
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:16 pm

Ok so the dr. Earth soil I linked ,your saying won't really work cussed it won't have the microbes in it because they cook the soil? What's this Mel's mix do you have a link to it? Also I should add that I plan on tilling the dirt that will be under the raised bed and adding organic fertilizer to that then putting my soil I bought on top of that, I'm hoping that will help in depth for my plants root system...... Also let me clear some things up I am not planting in pots this will be in a raised bed with no bottom that is placed over top dirt.( people keep bringing up pots so thought I should add that in)

DR1VEN
Full Member
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 5:25 pm
Location: Southen California, Zone 9a

hi drainey0,

I've read this entire thread. Lots of people have given advice on your situation and you seem dead set in doing it your own way even if it doesn't seem like its going to work in the long run(as I do as well).

with that said, I hear you...you have a plan that you like and just want to proceed. I hear you.

The most important thing IMHO is to get growing. you'll learn in time that all the peoples attempts to get you to re-look at your starting idea was sound but that doesn't matter and you'd have been better off listening but as others have said gardening is not a one stop shop...your experience will grow with your plants. JUST START. :)

Let me tell you how I started...I bought Square foot gardening(Mels book) in there is a formula ESSENTIAL for garden soil(you'll learn this does not have to be precise) but is an EXCELLENT starting point. I blended all my own soil...1/3 peat moss, 1/3 vermiculite, 1/3 compost(I used Dr Earth as it has great blends with high amounts of worm castings)...mix....plant....you'll get great production(in general)

Don't add anything else.....There you go. A direct answer to the question on what soil to get.

NOW....watch whatever you plant in the mix, watch how your plant grows or not, gets diseased or not, and learn from there.

Welcome to the "there is no easy button" hobby of gardening and have a blast...we all have massive questions, continue to learn no matter how much we know, get extremely frustrated, have immense joy, and love it all along the way.

You WILL have failures guaranteed. we all do...learn from them and get better with the next planting. you'll have great success, learn from them and have even greater ones.

Get outside!!!...Get your plants going!!!....The season is a wasting....come back and type more later....oh ya, and take pictures :mrgreen:


(Disclaimer: I agree with almost every post above this 100% from the others to change your plan but its your garden...do as you please. :) :) :) )

User avatar
applestar
Mod
Posts: 30514
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 7:21 pm
Location: Zone 6, NJ (3/M)4/E ~ 10/M(11/B)

I suggested the ones I did because I thought they would work without amending. (And yes,it's the same one as you linked. Espoma one comes in a red bag). The beneficial bacteria and fungi are added after they pasteurize the product, and the bagged product remain live culture unless they are stored wrong (in the sun or get waterlogged in the rain).

I said I add sand because I have clay subsoil and ultimately you want to get the soil aggregate/mixture to have three things -- organic matter, silt (clay), and sand in more or less equal proportions.

Fertilizing is another matter. You still have to do that in some way as the plants grow and deplete the available nutrients, and their nutrient requirements change, but the products out of the bag contain sufficient nutrients for initial planting and growing for about a month, and the microbes provide the additional means to slowly breakdown the ingredients and existing soil to release more nutrients.

All this will depend on your existing soil conditions -- again, will you do anything to soil beneath? ...and tilling and fertilizing will help. I suggest using fertilizer with equal numbers of NPK -- what you grow, and growing conditions during the season. There are other factors that will affect their growth like initial condition and quality of the plants, sunlight and watering, weeds, mulching, etc. etc.

Mr green
Green Thumb
Posts: 372
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:08 pm
Location: Sweden

Imafan26 you seem to have had big troubles with organic in pots? Would like to know why you dislike the organic methods so much since I always grow organic in pots, (tomatoes, cukes, tomatillo, eggplant and many more.) with bagged soil products, and little added. This year will add some woodash and she how it goes it supposed to be very good for tomatoes and prevent blossom end rot, I never had that problem tho. I have used nettle tea at occasion but quite rarely, and I have been using a organic liquid fertilizer product with micro bacteria called Bio Bact (rarely too, I still have my 4 year old bottle of it. I don't know if you have it overseas tho.
But I don't necessarily strive to get the tallest plants with the most fruit, getting nutritious food is my highest concern and for this organic methods is king, thats a well proven fact.

Back to op: I wish I could reccomend a product for you but being in Sweden we don't have any of the same ones. You can make nettle/comfrey/dandelion or other "weed" teas simply by fermenting it in a bucket with water. Stirr now and then and after a week you have a manure smelling liquid, dilute it 1/10 and build your soil with it, it does come with a small amount of microbes, I have read that you can add sugar or molasses to the topsoil befor watering with this solution to increase bacterial growth this is nothing I have tried tho, and even if I had it would be hard to tell if it worked by just looking at the soil. Another thing that could be good is to blend in some of your native soil that may give a jumpstart on microbial activity. (If you take it from covered ground preferably, like lawns, wooden areas or such.)

Another top way to increase microbes and to get them to stay in the soil is MULCH MULCH MULCH, if the soil dries out to much lots of microbes will be gone. So a nice mulch layer makes a good habitat for them, as well as for earthworms and other benefitial insects. Together this helps to build your soil as well simply a win win situation in my opinion.

Stay positive and enjoy your gardening, troubles will occur but don't let that ever stop you!

User avatar
applestar
Mod
Posts: 30514
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 7:21 pm
Location: Zone 6, NJ (3/M)4/E ~ 10/M(11/B)

OK I lost track :oops: -- why did you want me to see the seed packet photos again?

(And I agree 100% about mulching -- I don't till but usually start out a brand new bed by sheet mulching)

drainey0
Senior Member
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:16 pm

Let you see the seed packets cause you were asking if they were indeterminate or determinate. Again thank you all for the info



Return to “Organic Gardening Forum”