Re: Community Garden Weed Pulling
Thank you, ButterflyLady29! I think I will do it your way. We're going over to the garden tomorrow evening, so we'll see how it goes then.
The problem with tilling and removing the weeds is that you remove alot of the soils fertility as compared to previous mentioned method. If you have money for the ammendments needed it will work, but its not very sustainable also alot of micronutrients oxidise right into the air when using this method.
"A majority of the microbes in the soil exist under starvation conditions and thus they tend to be in a dormant state, especially in tilled soils." quoted from ohio state university here: https://ohioline.osu.edu/factsheet/SAG-16
"A majority of the microbes in the soil exist under starvation conditions and thus they tend to be in a dormant state, especially in tilled soils." quoted from ohio state university here: https://ohioline.osu.edu/factsheet/SAG-16
-
ButterflyLady29
- Greener Thumb
- Posts: 1030
- Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:12 pm
- Location: central Ohio
The mulch will replace those carbon materials. If the op can use the same plot next year it will be better than this year. It takes a lot of time and material to get rock hard soil to the point where you don't have to use a lot of muscle to break it up. I had a plot where I didn't need to till, just pull material back and plant. But when the soil is unworkable and the clock is already ticking you do the best you can with what you have. If they had got the plot in the fall and had all winter to kill off the weeds then I would recommend the layering/weed suffocation method.
To weed with a carpet you repeat the process until you don't really see many weeds popping up. I reread my previous post, I may not have been clear. Water the plot and get the weeds growing, then cover it with the carpet, not water and cover right away. I usually water daily for about 2 weeks to bring up the weeds and then cover it with the carpet for another 10-14 days. When you look under the carpet you can see how dead the weeds are. I like them brown and shriveled not just yellow and juicy. Remove the carpet. You should be able to rake most of the dead tops away. Use the garden fork to poke holes in the soil so the water will penetrate deeper and water until the weeds sprout in 7-14 days. They really come up on their own after a big rain. Regular watering might also help with the hard soil. It might be hard because it is dry. As the water penetrates deeper into the soil it sometimes helps to loosen it up. It is actually easier to pull weeds when clay is wet, you just don't want to work it wet or it ruins the structure of the soil and you end up with rock hard clods that take a while to fix.
A roto tiller will till the soil well but again do not do it when it is wet. I have a mantis which is more like a cultivator than a tiller. The smaller machine cannot plow through weeds, it winds around the tines and causes a mess. Neither machine will kill perennial weeds, weed seeds or weeds that only need a node to propagate. The tines at best will only get the top 4-6 inches, if you have hard pan below, it will still be hardpan. The weight of the heavier machine also tends to pack the subsoil further.
A roto tiller will till the soil well but again do not do it when it is wet. I have a mantis which is more like a cultivator than a tiller. The smaller machine cannot plow through weeds, it winds around the tines and causes a mess. Neither machine will kill perennial weeds, weed seeds or weeds that only need a node to propagate. The tines at best will only get the top 4-6 inches, if you have hard pan below, it will still be hardpan. The weight of the heavier machine also tends to pack the subsoil further.
We have just broke down the soil, and belive it or not, it looks like normal soil now! 
free of weeds and large clumps. It is still clay-ish, but its better.
All we have left to do is mix in some (composted?) cow manure into the soil.
Since some of the seeds we want to plant in the garden are far too tiny, we will use seed tape. Hope it works!!!
free of weeds and large clumps. It is still clay-ish, but its better.All we have left to do is mix in some (composted?) cow manure into the soil.
Since some of the seeds we want to plant in the garden are far too tiny, we will use seed tape. Hope it works!!!
-
Lindsaylew82
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 2115
- Joined: Wed May 21, 2014 9:26 pm
- Location: Upstate, SC
-
Lindsaylew82
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 2115
- Joined: Wed May 21, 2014 9:26 pm
- Location: Upstate, SC
So, now the soil is workable and looks amazing!
However, someone above mentioned that clay soil should not be watered before working on it. Does this mean that I can't water it even after it has been broken down?
It's just that I've noticed that after the soil is rained on, it hardens even more, so I am scared to see it become hard again.
I am also planning on mixing some cow or horse manure into it. Do you think the manure has to be composted?
- 20160502_184727-320x180.jpg (30.63 KiB) Viewed 2943 times
It's just that I've noticed that after the soil is rained on, it hardens even more, so I am scared to see it become hard again.
I am also planning on mixing some cow or horse manure into it. Do you think the manure has to be composted?
-
Lindsaylew82
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 2115
- Joined: Wed May 21, 2014 9:26 pm
- Location: Upstate, SC
YEEEEEEEEEEEEES!
When we were rookies, in PA, we had Our first garden as a couple, at our in laws house. FIL got us a load of horse manure from the girls school that he worked. It was beautiful stuff! Not composted. We grew every freakin kind of grain there ever was in horse feed. Next year, we had a great garden!
I would just add some roughage. Something to lighten the soil a bit.
When we were rookies, in PA, we had Our first garden as a couple, at our in laws house. FIL got us a load of horse manure from the girls school that he worked. It was beautiful stuff! Not composted. We grew every freakin kind of grain there ever was in horse feed. Next year, we had a great garden!
I would just add some roughage. Something to lighten the soil a bit.
-
Lindsaylew82
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 2115
- Joined: Wed May 21, 2014 9:26 pm
- Location: Upstate, SC
You could call around to local dairy farms or horse farms. We've never added manure into our currents garden. It had cotton seed meal put into it about 30 years ago.
Roughage= chunkies. I'm partial to chopped leaves and straw. If you can find someone who bales up their grass each year, sometimes they can't get rid of it, and it spoils. THAT IS PRIME STUFF!!!
We add all our grass clipping as well. You could call some lawn services. Maybe they can drop off to you instead of drop off to a landfill.
Roughage= chunkies. I'm partial to chopped leaves and straw. If you can find someone who bales up their grass each year, sometimes they can't get rid of it, and it spoils. THAT IS PRIME STUFF!!!
We add all our grass clipping as well. You could call some lawn services. Maybe they can drop off to you instead of drop off to a landfill.Hey folks,
We called a local Beef Farmer and she said she's be more than happy if I came and picked up some cow manure for our community garden, to add to our clay soil. We are going there tomorrow in full gear: old attic jeans, boots, gloves 'n shovels and plenty of heavy-duty garbage bags for filling them with manure.
Someone suggested that I just added the fresh (or maybe a couple week old) manure to the soil and mix it in. Would this work? Would I be able to plant in this "soil/manure" mixture?
Someone said that mushroom manure may "burn" the plants a bit, but is fresh cow manure okay?
Any help and or advice is very appreciated!
We called a local Beef Farmer and she said she's be more than happy if I came and picked up some cow manure for our community garden, to add to our clay soil. We are going there tomorrow in full gear: old attic jeans, boots, gloves 'n shovels and plenty of heavy-duty garbage bags for filling them with manure.
Someone suggested that I just added the fresh (or maybe a couple week old) manure to the soil and mix it in. Would this work? Would I be able to plant in this "soil/manure" mixture?
Someone said that mushroom manure may "burn" the plants a bit, but is fresh cow manure okay?
Any help and or advice is very appreciated!
You don't want fresh cow manure unless you are not planning to eat anything out of the garden for at least 120 days. Fresh manure should be composted first. You don't need a lot of manure, what you need is compost. You want to get 4-6 inches of well aged compost laid down adn then about an inch of composted (not fresh) manure all of that worked into the top 6-8 inches of soil. Compost will improve soil tilth and retain water.
this is a link to composting classes and resources in Brittish Columbia.
https://www.compost.bc.ca/resources/
Clay soils should not be worked wet. You can water it but work it when it is friable (crumbly) not sticky and wet or you will get a lot of clods that take a while to iron out.
this is a link to composting classes and resources in Brittish Columbia.
https://www.compost.bc.ca/resources/
Clay soils should not be worked wet. You can water it but work it when it is friable (crumbly) not sticky and wet or you will get a lot of clods that take a while to iron out.
-
applestar
- Mod
- Posts: 30550
- Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 7:21 pm
- Location: Zone 6, NJ (3/M)4/E ~ 10/M(11/B)
Cow manure -- someone else can correct me if I'm wrong, but cow manure is loose and liquid unless you are picking up "patties" from a dry field where the moisture from the pile had soaked into the dry soil. I'm thinking more like trash cans or storage tubs lined with bags. Does your community garden have shared compost piles? You could start some new piles with the cow patties you get could be composted along with all the garden waste -- these will be the GREENS -- nitrogen rich ingredients. Need to gather BROWNS -- carbon rich ingredients -- next. With good C:N ratio and diligent turning, you would have at least partly composted piles in 120 days.
If you have access to a cattle or dairy farm, what you *might* want to ask is if they are willing to part with the empty protein/molasses/mineral tubs. Bug tubs that are great for container growing big crops like tomatoes and squash, even corn. I want some, but haven't figured out if there are any sources around here, and I would need to "borrow" a pick up truck. (Some of you know my DH has one but won't let me use it for stuff like this
)
Hah, you could put the cow patties IN the tubs and bring them both back.
If you have access to a cattle or dairy farm, what you *might* want to ask is if they are willing to part with the empty protein/molasses/mineral tubs. Bug tubs that are great for container growing big crops like tomatoes and squash, even corn. I want some, but haven't figured out if there are any sources around here, and I would need to "borrow" a pick up truck. (Some of you know my DH has one but won't let me use it for stuff like this
)Hah, you could put the cow patties IN the tubs and bring them both back.
Yup, you folks are right about adding fresh manure to the garden... https://www.colostate.edu/Dept/CoopExt/4 ... /fresh.htm 
I was thinking of maybe reserving a small space in the garden (maybe 10 square ft?) and mixing just that little bit of soil with the manure. Then I'd cover it up with a plastic covering, so that it acts as a compost bin. After the summer has past, and fall arrives, I'll take the covering off and distribute the "composted" manure throughout the rest of the garden bed.
Does this sound like a good idea?
For now, as I do need something to fertelize the garden with, I suppose I'll go get the bagged composted manure that I was talking about earlier. The bags are 40lb and are just two bucks, so I'm guessing it's not that bad. I'll need about 10 bags wich would cost $20. Do you folks think that 10x 40lb bags is enough for 240 square feet?
I was thinking of maybe reserving a small space in the garden (maybe 10 square ft?) and mixing just that little bit of soil with the manure. Then I'd cover it up with a plastic covering, so that it acts as a compost bin. After the summer has past, and fall arrives, I'll take the covering off and distribute the "composted" manure throughout the rest of the garden bed.
Does this sound like a good idea?
For now, as I do need something to fertelize the garden with, I suppose I'll go get the bagged composted manure that I was talking about earlier. The bags are 40lb and are just two bucks, so I'm guessing it's not that bad. I'll need about 10 bags wich would cost $20. Do you folks think that 10x 40lb bags is enough for 240 square feet?
Yes it is unfortunate that it is that hard because hard/clay soil tillers can be expensive. Maybe look into rental prices if needed.
Yeah both renting and buying one is pretty expensive. So we are trying to do this all by ourselves (fingers crossed that this works )!
We ordered a blend of 1 yard of composted chicken manure, 1 yard of garden soil (peat moss, sand, compost, regular soil) and 1 yard of single screened soil. We are hoping mixing this with the clay soil that we have right now will help make the clay soil a bit better. (Fingers crossed for this too!!)
)! We ordered a blend of 1 yard of composted chicken manure, 1 yard of garden soil (peat moss, sand, compost, regular soil) and 1 yard of single screened soil. We are hoping mixing this with the clay soil that we have right now will help make the clay soil a bit better. (Fingers crossed for this too!!)
-
Lindsaylew82
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 2115
- Joined: Wed May 21, 2014 9:26 pm
- Location: Upstate, SC
) have built a border around the garden, and we are so, so ready to wheel bulk-bought 2 square yards of Garden mix and 1 sqaure yard of Chicken Manure. We will pile the soil on top of the soil we have now.Since it is a community garden, some gardeners have mentioned that people pick flowers and veggies off of the gardens even though it isn't theirs!
so we will build a "fence" out of chicken wire all around. I think the wire will serve two purposes: *prevent people from stealing what we will grow
*to let cukes vine up the wire
-
Lindsaylew82
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 2115
- Joined: Wed May 21, 2014 9:26 pm
- Location: Upstate, SC
Today, the soil arrived! 2 sqaure yards of Garden mix and 1 square yard of composted chicken manure. The soil looks so rich that I didn't even mind paying the total which came to $120
We loaded all the soil onto our community garden and turned out, we had 2 large garbage bags of soil left over!!! Yay!
Next day, I'll post a pic or two of how our daughters planted all the veggies.
We loaded all the soil onto our community garden and turned out, we had 2 large garbage bags of soil left over!!! Yay!
Next day, I'll post a pic or two of how our daughters planted all the veggies.
Agree 100% ! I am not expecting everything to go well this year. I am actually looking forward to learning from my mistakes to create a better garden next year.
My daughters are so excited- my husband and I got 'em started on it and now they are gonna work on it on their own- just like they wanted
Now that their mini garden is done, I have to work on my garden! (I feel like I spent way too much time building and organizing and starting my daughters' community garden and haven't spent enough time on my garden)
My daughters are so excited- my husband and I got 'em started on it and now they are gonna work on it on their own- just like they wanted
Now that their mini garden is done, I have to work on my garden! (I feel like I spent way too much time building and organizing and starting my daughters' community garden and haven't spent enough time on my garden)