imafan26
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

I don't know but I cheated. I scanned it from the printer like a photo and put it in my picture files.
Happy gardening in Hawaii. Gardens are where people grow.

TareqPhoto
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

This is a way to do it, but it is really a headache, so i just waiting until i know the way to show my plan, i was going to upload it to one of the webhosts then post a link to download it here, but maybe this is not allowed here, so i better wait and find out another way.

TareqPhoto
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

Ok, i just took the snapshot or the photos from the monitor, cropped a bit to keep within the white and exclude the border non-white, so what do you think?
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imafan26
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

large plants need big pots. You can use other containers. Plastic 55 gallon drums cut in half (they have to be food grade. Here we would get them from bakeries) You can use muck buckets. They are large plastic tubs you might find at a farm or stable supply or hardware store. Here they are sold for ice buckets. You have to put drain holes in them. I use a soldering iron but you need to do it outside, burning plastic is toxic to breathe. I use a mask.
https://www.statelinetack.com/item/forti ... SLT310278/

One tomato per pot and you need to use potting soil not garden soil in the pot. You will need to fertilize the plants in the pot.

It is better if you don't have a lot of equipment and only small pots to start with smaller plant that fit the pots. Herbs will do fine in small pots. All planters must have holes on the bottom and you should use potting soil that is designed for pots. Dirt can be tricky since it is dense and does not behave very well in pots. It will pack down and contract and that can cause problems down the line.

Until you have built up the soil better it would be better to plant things that are not such heavy feeders like tomatoes and corn.

Beans and peas require less nutrients. Lettuce and cabbages are possibilities.

I would wait on beets and carrots until the soil has been improved enough to be soft and deep.
Happy gardening in Hawaii. Gardens are where people grow.

TareqPhoto
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

imafan26 wrote:large plants need big pots. You can use other containers. Plastic 55 gallon drums cut in half (they have to be food grade. Here we would get them from bakeries) You can use muck buckets. They are large plastic tubs you might find at a farm or stable supply or hardware store. Here they are sold for ice buckets. You have to put drain holes in them. I use a soldering iron but you need to do it outside, burning plastic is toxic to breathe. I use a mask.
https://www.statelinetack.com/item/forti ... SLT310278/

One tomato per pot and you need to use potting soil not garden soil in the pot. You will need to fertilize the plants in the pot.

It is better if you don't have a lot of equipment and only small pots to start with smaller plant that fit the pots. Herbs will do fine in small pots. All planters must have holes on the bottom and you should use potting soil that is designed for pots. Dirt can be tricky since it is dense and does not behave very well in pots. It will pack down and contract and that can cause problems down the line.

Until you have built up the soil better it would be better to plant things that are not such heavy feeders like tomatoes and corn.

Beans and peas require less nutrients. Lettuce and cabbages are possibilities.

I would wait on beets and carrots until the soil has been improved enough to be soft and deep.
Your answer is before or after you saw my drawing plan?

I can't buy larger containers or big pots, so it is like i should forget about planting at all or only think about those very small growing plants only.

I selected that area so i clean it up from weeds and grass, then change the soil or just mix it with better soil say a clay sand and potting soil and fertilizer so i make it a ready ground, i will never plant directly without cleaning and repairing and changing the properties of that garden soil.

Thanks!

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applestar
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

OK, sorry to be late joining in this discussion. :D

Note my comment about not planting tomatoes right next to corn in the corn thread.

...

You might want yo look in this thread for inspiration, too:

Subject: Self Watering Container and Sub-irrigated Planter
albopepper wrote:Here are examples of things grown in my 30 gallon SIP totes, without using any plastic cover at all:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

I prefer to harness rain water. Also, I like the plants to get aeration through the bottom aeration screen PLUS the surface soil line. This provides for maximum gas exchange. But you need a properly porous mix. Some things, like peanuts, won't even work if you try to use a plastic cover.

Of course if you're using a plastic cover and getting stellar results, then keep doing it!
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applestar
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

Wow this thread sure has a lot of information both from tareqphoto and members who have been posting answers.

I'm just going to snatch a few bites here and there. Forgive me if they have been covered already since I only skimmed.

Cilantro/coriander -- I hear best way to keep getting continual harvest is to sow seeds every few weeks. But in all honestly They don't seem to germinate at all during the summer. Mine self seeds and come up on their own in spring and fall, and bolt to produce seeds in summer and get freeze killed in winter. Containers will allow them to be moved. If air conditioned and cool indoors, maybe inside during hottest times of the year? Should look for posts by hendi_alex about growing them.

It would be a good idea to check out all the threads that have been gathered in the new Raised Bed sub-Forum. I agree with the earliest posts in this thread that cardboard and sheet mulching is the easiest way to get started.

I suspect strawberries and apples are also difficult in this climate? You would need to look for cultivars bred for hot climate with no chill hours. What about strawberry-like tropical fruits like kiwi or ??? (Does strawberry guava taste like strawberries?)

Imafan mentioned shade cloth. You may need to seriously look into putting up a shadehouse, which can be built like a hoop house or a tent on temporary basis. The shade cloth could be also be attached on rings to wires and pulled/spread to cover and pushed/folded away like an awning.

In a dry climate, evaporative/swamp cooler in an enclosed space or a misting system/set up could also be a way to cool down an area, unless of course water conservation is an issue.
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TareqPhoto
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

I started 2 months ago and i keep planting because i know that the summer is gone, so i have nearly 5-7 months since 2 months ago to plant or germinate or transplanting and preparing my garden, after 7 months or say 5 months from now the summer is coming again and the hot weather also, i want within 3-5 months from now that most seedlings are growing fine or taller a bit, then later i can water them more and cover them, once they are growing taller then i know that they are doing fine, and i read from everywhere that tomatoes can give fruit within 3-5 months, so if those 5 months gone until the summer and i didn't get any fruits from tomatoes or similar plants and other plants didn't grow it means i should bother, and then focus on summer plants as we will have summer heat from say May until September.

I have 2 pots that i grow cilantro inside, i will start another thread about cilantro itself alone and i took pics of that to show you how it is going, i hope it will keep growing fine, and i am thinking to use that one left empty "windowbox" container for cilantro so i can have more than the pots, cilantro is another very important herb that we use in food, it is first or second important with tomatoes for us.

I planted chives[garlic] halves bulbs in one pot, same as a white pot i showed in my "Tomatoes" thread, in fact i can't remember if i planted one or 2, but the leaves out of soil telling me it is two, so i don't know for how long i need to wait until i can harvest, if it will be successful harvest then later maybe next year late i will buy more long containers and i will plant only chives so i can have harvest for after next year enough an i re-plant again.

My citrus[yellow lemon] seeds germinated and only 3 out 7 sprouted and it is still very very tiny growing, i feel like they are growing 1cm only every 1-2 months, i planted them i think in late October if i still remember and now it is only 1cm seedlings and the other 2 are nearly 0.5cm, something wrong i don't know, but i really don't care much because in my garden recently i found out that i already have citrus trees [3 with one almost dead but won't give up on it yet], today i just went to one of those trees with not much bad diseases or yellowish leaf and i washed it with water then cut little of it and smelled it, definitely citrus of lemon or lame, it has that lemon fragrant or sour smell slightly, good for me.

I planted parsley in 2 small pots and another pot a bit medium size and i never get anything out of them, i wanted to have parsley too and i thought it will grow similar way to cilantro or faster maybe, but to my surprise i got nothing yet, so are the seeds dead or i didn't plant them correctly or what else, i will check out by research and i will try again sooner or later.

I planted cucumber seed after germinated and amazingly the seedling growing fast but as it grew fast it died faster, so germination was successful and it sprouted nicely and grown fast, but it died, i think the only reasons are: overwater, and very small size pot, not sure if i will plant again later what size of pot i need or better move this to my garden planned area?

ButterflyLady29
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

Some plants need a lot of room for their roots and just don't do well in small pots. I'm not sure about your area but in most of the US there are places where you can get buckets free or for very little money. You would have to make holes in the bottom of a bucket or other container. The holes let water drain out so your pot doesn't fill with water. Too much water will kill your plants.

TareqPhoto
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

ButterflyLady29 wrote:Some plants need a lot of room for their roots and just don't do well in small pots. I'm not sure about your area but in most of the US there are places where you can get buckets free or for very little money. You would have to make holes in the bottom of a bucket or other container. The holes let water drain out so your pot doesn't fill with water. Too much water will kill your plants.
So what is the diameter and depth of the pot is minimum good enough? what about container?

Containers aren't that much expensive but if i buy "Cosmoplast" brand then it is a bit pricey than normal un-branded ones, and the pots are very cheap actually, some can give me few medium or small pots free, or give me the pots say 3-5 ones for about $1, but i would like to know what are the sizes you are talking about.

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applestar
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

We have a subforum dedicated to seed starting, and there are sticky (permanently listed at the top) threads that might be informative. :wink:

Here's one about using recycled containers:

Subject: Recycled containers for seed starting and uppotting
applestar wrote: :mrgreen: I like the idea of NOT throwing away things that can't be readily recycled -- i.e. that my limited municipal recycling won't take. At least not right away. :mrgreen:

I'm basing the depth of container on J. Jeavon's 3" deep for sowing seeds and 6" deep for most uppots. (Lettuce can stay in 3" deep). Filled with soil to the rim for better air circulation

[...]
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pikespeakhydro
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

Awesome question! One thing I have used before and it works great is newspaper. If you can lay down a layer of newspaper where you want your garden to be it will not allow the grass to grow under it and over time with compost nicely and you will not have to worry about weeds for the summer. I do this every year and it works wonders!
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ButterflyLady29
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

Do you want the size in liters or centimeters? 30 centimeter diameter and height or about 20 liters is a good size to start with. I've got some about twice that size. Anything will work as long as it holds soil. I've read about people using cardboard boxes but those fall apart too easily for me to suggest those.

This site has some good information about planting in 5 gallon buckets:
https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/special ... uckets.htm
Of course it's a US site so buckets might be a bit easier to get here and they don't give metric sizes. 5 gallons equals about 20 liters.

imafan26
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

Tareq
On your garden plan
If you can use that many tomatoes it is fine but you will need to trellis the tomatoes to keep them that close. Florida weave should work. You can use a tall strong stake or make a trellis between the rows. If you are going to let them sprawl on the ground they will need more space and you will get more fruit rot with them on the ground.

You will not need so many watermelon. One watermelon vine can be up to50 feet so it will not stay contained in that space unless you will allow it to sprawl outside of the garden. Lettuce needs to be planted 20 cm apart plant only as much as you can eat in a couple of weeks say 10 heads (this is something you can start in pots since they do transplant well) every 2 or three weeks plant 10 heads or how many you can eat in that time so you will have a continuous supply. Lettuce takes about 3-8 weeks to mature depending on the time of the year. You can use the other space for something else just leave enough space for about 30 heads of lettuce. Empty space to plant 10, 10 growing, 10 to be harvesting. In a 2x8 ft space you will fit about 30 heads of lettuce
Watermelon are usually planted in a hill. 4 to 6 plants and allow the vines to cover an 8 ft circle. The vines will be growing on top of each other. You can grow ice box watermelons which will have smaller fruit about 11 lbs but the vines are only about 6 ft long.
Corn minimum block size 4ft x 4ft = 16 plants spaced one foot apart.

If you want to grow big plants in that space you can, but you need to look at the minimum space requirements. The garden will look empty when it is planted but spacing is determined by the mature sizes of the plants.

I have a much smaller garden 8ft x 16 ft. When I plant corn, it takes up half the garden space 8x8 ft and for only about 40 plants with minimum spacing. If I am lucky, I will get around 60 ears.

I plant my tomatoes in pots on a trellis outside the garden to save the garden space for smaller plants.

One zuccchini, one Italian parsley, one cutting celery and a cucumber on a trellis take up a 4x4 ft space. The zucchini was planted on the edge so half of it was outside the garden, otherwise it would have taken almost all of the space by itself.

I have grown sugar baby ice box watermelons but they only yield three watermelons for the space they take up so I only grow them if I have nothing better to grow instead. I get more production from gourds (over 20 on a trellis), cucumber 20 or more, tomatoes three plants, a lot of tomatoes. Bitter melon and chayote, grows wild, beans picking a handful every day or two. Herbs take up very little space, many of them are in pots and a little adds a lot of flavor.

I grow corn because I like it and I can eat all of it in a few days. However, in terms of economy it is a lot of dedicated space for such a small yield.

I grow one or two swiss chard. Each plant takes up a little over a square foot. I can get repeat harvests of leaves for months. Same thing with New Zealand hot weather spinach, it grows faster than I can use it.

If you selected these plants because you like them, that is fine, but they are not easy plants to start with. They require some extra work in terms of needing support like trellises for tomatoes and they take up a lot of space.

Work out on your plan to scale using a square grid so you will have an idea of how many plants you can fit in the space.
This is a link to a free sample planner. This is for a square foot garden. There are limitations to the planner. You have to know that some plants will need more than one square so you need to leave the other sqares blank. It does not allow for a garden to be wider than 4 ft which is what is the recommended width for a garden to be easily worked from all sides.

Tomatoes take up two squares., Eggplant and zucchini will take up 4 squares and vining plants need to be trellised or they will be growing outside of the garden space.
https://vegetableplanner.vegetable-gardening-online.com/
Tomatoes trellised and pruned need about 18 inches apart. Tomatoes in a cage about 3 ft apart
Corn 6 inch to 18 inches apart in minimum 4x4 sq ft space

Lettuce only as many plants as you can eat in a couple of weeks, they do not keep 8-10 inches apart
watermellon 6-10 ft circle with the watermelon planted in the middle and the vines being contained in the circle.
Happy gardening in Hawaii. Gardens are where people grow.

TareqPhoto
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

Those buckets are very similar to those we use in toilets, also very similar if not same to paints buckets, so maybe i buy some of those but not the paints buckets due to chemicals inside.

I think for now i will focus on few plants, next year i can add more if something succeeded.

imafan26
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

Probably a better idea to start with a few and figure out how much space each will need.

Here we can buy clean buckets from a paint store that has not been used. Other places to find clean buckets and barrels would be at bakeries and restaurants what buy bulk items.
Happy gardening in Hawaii. Gardens are where people grow.

TareqPhoto
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

Well, your long post is really helpful and can give me a good idea what i should do, but i feel like i will plant only few and leave something else out, as i said before that i am focusing more on plants that i will eat or use in food, and not all are really necessary.

So, i will put a list here as following from important to less important.

A.
- Tomatoes
- Onion [red]
- Cilantro or coriander
- Parsley
- Mint
- Lemon
- Orange

B.
- Garlic
- Potato
- White/yellow onion
- Cucumber
- Lettuce [For salad only]
- Ginger
- Mango
- Banana

C.
- Corn
- Peas
- Carrot
- Sweet Pepper or green pepper [for very few dishes, no harm to have]
- Sweet potato
- Melon [for me]
- Watermelon
- Pomegranate
- Mandarin and/or clementine
- Apple [I like the green and yellow only, my family like all including the red]
- Saffron
- Lentils
- Olive
- Spinach

D.
- Strawberry [for kids, i only like it in ice-cream or jam or cake flavour]
- Berries such as mulberry or raspberry [for kids]
- Cherry [for kids]
- Pears
- Chilli
- Tea
- Coffee
- Cumin
- Cardamom
- Small mushroom [for Pizza and Pasta]

As you can see, it is really so big list, and i tried to mention only things i like to eat or my family, there is few little more but i ignored and focuses on those.

And from above list, i try to choose 2-3 from the first important category then one or 2 from each other categories, watermelon is not a main but wanted to have it only for my kids, and i like or prefer melon more but didn't want to plant only my needs.

I was thinking if i buy those buckets or containers or i don't know what you call it that are not that so deep say nearly 5-7" deep but they are so wide nearly 3ft so i can plant something like melon/watermelon or lettuce or potatoes or any plants that aren't growing tall and only grow widely/horizontally so i can save some space from my garden?

Let's say i use a part or a quarter of that area for tomatoes, and say i try my best to have enough block for corn, then what else left for another plant i want to grow from above big list? cilantro and most herbs i am planting in pots and containers and won't plant them in my garden ground, lemon and pomegranate are already there and mulberry, i may try to buy a ready either orange or mandarin seedlings and plant in another area next to another trees so i don't worry about some fruits.

Outside of my house there is another area i can use to plant, i chose sunflower to be one of those plants, and maybe some nice smell or colours plants in addition such as basil or jasmine or daisy, and i leave little part for something that others like to eat for all passengers if possible such as cauliflower or cabbage or eggplant[my wife only like eggplant and not sure about my kids], we have palm trees and one Terminalia catappa tree and we like both and almost every house here should have both of those trees as must.

ButterflyLady29
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

In your shallow (not deep) containers you can plant the lettuce, saffron, onions, spinach, strawberries, cilantro, and parsley. All the others need a much deeper container or to be planted in the ground.

I've tried mushrooms in containers and still haven't had any results. I'm doing something wrong but I haven't figured out what yet.

TareqPhoto
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

ButterflyLady29 wrote:In your shallow (not deep) containers you can plant the lettuce, saffron, onions, spinach, strawberries, cilantro, and parsley. All the others need a much deeper container or to be planted in the ground.

I've tried mushrooms in containers and still haven't had any results. I'm doing something wrong but I haven't figured out what yet.
Ok, I already planted cilantro and parsley, i have planted onions in a container but it never show up, i feel it is either never germinated or i have to wait months, if nothing showing within 1 month later then i will just recycle the container soil and i will try with less mixed soil maybe. I will buy another containers wide and shallow for the plants you mentioned excluding what i already planted, hope it will work fine.

ButterflyLady29
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

If your onions haven't come up within 2 weeks they aren't going to come up. Did you use seed or little bulbs (also known in the US as sets)? Onion seed doesn't live very long, it usually won't grow if it's more than a year old. Go ahead and plant something else in the onion pot.

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applestar
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

If you are growing onions for the greens or small bulbs, here's a trick I like -- Cut a generous pyramid from the bottom of the onions you prepare for cooking -- instead of cutting straight across, cut the onion diagonally from one side of the base/dried up roots, then cut two or three more angles, then cut off the point. You should have the base of the onion attached to the 3/4 to 1 inch "pyramid".

You only need 1" diameter or less so you can also cut off the corners of the pyramid when cutting up big onions if you want.

Snuggle these into loose soil mix just below soil surface and they will grow roots and greens.

I do this all winter indoors to clip off and harvest the greens, and then, in spring, I plant them out. (Remember it usually gets down to negative single digit °F here in winter and most onions won't survive outside). As they mature during the growing season, some of them will form small bulbs, most will just grow lush greens during the spring then try to bloom. I generally cut off and harvest the greens or pull them up to eat as green onions, but sometimes I let them bloom and make seeds and then harvest the seeds to grow.

-- you can do this with garlic (for greens not for bulbing) and shallots, too.
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TareqPhoto
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

ButterflyLady29 wrote:If your onions haven't come up within 2 weeks they aren't going to come up. Did you use seed or little bulbs (also known in the US as sets)? Onion seed doesn't live very long, it usually won't grow if it's more than a year old. Go ahead and plant something else in the onion pot.
I planted seeds, black seeds, and not sure if those seeds are the one i placed on wet cotton and they didn't germinate so it may caught fungi, or if i planted new seeds, i bought the package of seeds from one of those gardening stores and the expiry date shows that it will be in 2018, production is 02/2015, i didn't know that it may not last/live very long.

I planted the seeds over 4 weeks maybe 5, so maybe you are right, i may never see anything, but, should i try again with another seeds without trying to place them in wet cotton/toilet paper to see if they may give me results? I will never know until i give it a try, i placed one seed or two in one small pot and the leaves are still growing, but that pot has only potting soil without fertilizer or sand, but that shouldn't be the reason why it germinated and keep growing.

I will simply go and dig the container again and see if anything came out, if nothing then i will simply will try again with new seeds stored well directly without wetting for germination and see if this gonna work, but if i will place new seeds in that rectangular container, how many seeds i should place and in how much spacing? i actually go with 3 holes or beds so 2 spacing between the 3 in that container, even if that is not good enough room for onion to grow, at least it should show up something, then i will know that it worked, if not showing at all it means even with deeper and wider ground it won't work because the seed itself is exhausted maybe.

TareqPhoto
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

applestar wrote:If you are growing onions for the greens or small bulbs, here's a trick I like -- Cut a generous pyramid from the bottom of the onions you prepare for cooking -- instead of cutting straight across, cut the onion diagonally from one side of the base/dried up roots, then cut two or three more angles, then cut off the point. You should have the base of the onion attached to the 3/4 to 1 inch "pyramid".

You only need 1" diameter or less so you can also cut off the corners of the pyramid when cutting up big onions if you want.

Snuggle these into loose soil mix just below soil surface and they will grow roots and greens.

I do this all winter indoors to clip off and harvest the greens, and then, in spring, I plant them out. (Remember it usually gets down to negative single digit °F here in winter and most onions won't survive outside). As they mature During the growing season, some of them will form bulbs, most will just grow lush greens during the spring then try to bloom. I generally cut off and harvest the greens or pull them up to eat as green onions, but sometimes I let them bloom and make seeds and then harvest the seeds to grow.

-- you can do this with garlic and shallots, too.
Sorry for that but i really don't understand these steps, i try to image it or know what you mean by cut and how or where, but i get many pictures in my head so i feel that i didn't follow your trick clearly.

The problem is, if i am correct then all those onions bulbs we buy are already cut from top and bottom, so it is like they try not give a chance to have them re-planted to be grown again, i hardly saw any onion or garlic that are almost full original form just taken out from ground direct to market after washing them, what we have are already cut and packed or just cut and placed in baskets to pick by piece instead of package, i don't see roots or leaves on top, but........... i tested with garlic after i divided it and placed only 2 segments [or what do you call] and they grown already, actually, i don't know if i planted 2 or one because the pot showed 2 seedlings grown with the leaves, so i went with 2, but i am not sure the onion without roots or leaves in the original one i buy can grow fine.

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applestar
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

I made Chicken with Shiitake in rosemary-lemon-white wine sauce for dinner, and needed to cut an onion :()
image.jpg
(click for enlarged view)
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TareqPhoto
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

applestar wrote:I made Chicken with Shiitake in rosemary-lemon-white wine sauce for dinner, and needed to cut an onion :()
image.jpg
(click for enlarged view)
Thank you very much, i will do this method and see how it will go so far.

I can buy some of those buckets[or i don't know what do you call it] for home usage that are about 2.5-3 feet wide and 6-8inches deep, if i buy this, how many onions i can plant in it? how deep the onions need anyway? so with this bucket it will save another space for my garden, i hope one container i used for planting cilantro will have them grown and put them in shade place or anywhere that prevent them from bolting and with this onions then i will have the most important plants i need, and tomatoes will be treated carefully as well, but i was thinking that tomatoes should be part of my garden space planned area than in pots/containers, or if i will use a pot or container then what is the best biggest size of those pots or containers i can have to grow tomatoes fine enough without using the garden space?

ButterflyLady29
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

If you are going to plant your onion plant that come from the seed outside or in another spot then the seed can be planted 2.5 cm apart. If you are going to leave them in the container they should be about 12 cm apart. I never tried them on toilet paper, just in the soil. And they can be grown in your 6 to 8 inch deep buckets. 7 cm from the sides and 12 cm apart would be good spacing.

Tomatoes need at least 5 to 10 gallons, bigger is better.

Garlic, the little segments are called cloves, the bunch together is the bulb. I had to look it up, a lot of people get the terms mixed up.

applestar, thanks for the pictures. I didn't get it either. I've tried to grow onions from the slice off the bottom but they always rotted. I'll have to try your pyramid next time.

TareqPhoto
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

ButterflyLady29 wrote:If you are going to plant your onion plant that come from the seed outside or in another spot then the seed can be planted 2.5 cm apart. If you are going to leave them in the container they should be about 12 cm apart. I never tried them on toilet paper, just in the soil. And they can be grown in your 6 to 8 inch deep buckets. 7 cm from the sides and 12 cm apart would be good spacing.

Tomatoes need at least 5 to 10 gallons, bigger is better.

Garlic, the little segments are called cloves, the bunch together is the bulb. I had to look it up, a lot of people get the terms mixed up.

applestar, thanks for the pictures. I didn't get it either. I've tried to grow onions from the slice off the bottom but they always rotted. I'll have to try your pyramid next time.
Well, i am thinking to plant those higher plants first or that grow into trees or big seedlings, then later when i see that there are some areas left then i can think about those underground plants, and if you telling me that i need about 2.5cm apart for onions seeds in the ground that mean if i take for example 0.5mx0.5m area then i can plant about 20 seeds, if i can have about 1m square area then it may go up to 40 seeds, not bad, i may divide it into 2 halves, one for onions and one for garlic., but i feel that i can have them separated from the garden in containers so i can save space more for my growing up plants.

I really don't know if you have that list of what i want too plant and you have same my garden and my land house space what you can do then?!!!

ButterflyLady29
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

I did look at your photos and garden plan. You need to add the size of your planting area. If you gave it and I didn't see it I apologize. I wouldn't plant the corn because it takes too much room for the little it produces. Corn is very easy to buy here. I would grow the tomatoes and peppers because the ones from the store don't taste good and are very expensive. I also would plant the raspberries and strawberries because those also are much better fresh. But you are in a very different climate and I am not familiar with what your stores offer. Here lentils are very cheap to buy but take up a lot of room in a very small home garden.

Some of your trees can be planted in large pots, I have citrus trees in pots because they have to be kept inside for our winter. I've also seen bananas in pots. I don't know about the mango and pomegranate. Mulberries become large trees and so do cherries, they need to be planted in the ground.

Onions and garlic, yes, about 20 plants in a 0.5m by 0.5m area. And yes, they can grow in containers. Garlic and onions grown for green onions can be planted closer. The 12 cm guide is for large onions.

TareqPhoto
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

ButterflyLady29 wrote:I did look at your photos and garden plan. You need to add the size of your planting area. If you gave it and I didn't see it I apologize. I wouldn't plant the corn because it takes too much room for the little it produces. Corn is very easy to buy here. I would grow the tomatoes and peppers because the ones from the store don't taste good and are very expensive. I also would plant the raspberries and strawberries because those also are much better fresh. But you are in a very different climate and I am not familiar with what your stores offer. Here lentils are very cheap to buy but take up a lot of room in a very small home garden.

Some of your trees can be planted in large pots, I have citrus trees in pots because they have to be kept inside for our winter. I've also seen bananas in pots. I don't know about the mango and pomegranate. Mulberries become large trees and so do cherries, they need to be planted in the ground.

Onions and garlic, yes, about 20 plants in a 0.5m by 0.5m area. And yes, they can grow in containers. Garlic and onions grown for green onions can be planted closer. The 12 cm guide is for large onions.

Keep looking at posts, i submitted a draw plan of my garden selected area, and i think i did put measurements on that draw, even another member gave me another draw according to mine for suggestion, you should check out, it is maybe in page 2.

I have Mulberry trees already and i have pomegranate trees too, i didn't know about them but members helped me to identify them so those saved me some space in my garden.

About onions, sounds the pots and containers will be fine for them, i planted one onion in a pot and it is growing fine, also planted 2 cloves of garlic also in a pot and they are grown fine and keep growing, but i planted few onion seeds in container since about 3-4 weeks and it didn't show up at all, strange, so i will give it until end of this year say one more week, if nothing yet then i simple will try to sow the container again and plant the new seeds, could be that i planted them so deep, and the soil is so hard for the seeds to grow and germinate or getting the sprouted leaves out, anything can be the reason, same happened with one container which i planted with tomatoes seeds directly from a tomato after i cut it and took the inside juice with seeds, it has been nearly 50-60 days until i saw them germinated and just barely they sprouted, so maybe sometimes some seeds taking ages to germinate in the soil, i will give a try later.

Corn will be treated later, from my another thread someone just mentioned that he saw corn was planted in a pot, so, let me ask, if you keep telling me about having a block for corn to success the pollination, then how about if i plant the corn in many pots good size big enough and put them all together next and closer to each other in a block form, will that work too? so in this case i can place all the pots in the sunniest location and it will save space from my garden, say i buy 25 pots, and put them in 5x5 matrix or block with enough spacing in between, isn't this gonna work?

I have 2 pots made of pottery, good big size, the man before me who rented my house bought them and left them for me, it contains dead plants, i don't know what, but i feel i really don't want to know and just remove it and plant something else, i was thinking about kind of citrus but not lemon, i have 3 lemon trees already in my garden, so i was more thinking about orange or mandarin or clementine, i was also thinking about apple, dwarf one, somewhere i saw that apple tree which is just standing in a pot and giving fruits, not that high, nearly 4-5 feet, i forgot what they call it, i was thinking one of those in one pot and the other is orange[or similar] fruit in another pot, what do you think? Those two pots placed just right in front to the side of my house entrance door.

Yesterday i was looking for to boil cowpea in water to eat, but to my surprise or shock i saw those small insects in that package after i saw some of them trying to survive from that boiling water, so i dumped that boiled one, and kept the pack as i was thinking to use the seeds in planting, not sure if it can be planted or it is clean after that insect invasion or i should get rid of it too, and where i can plant it if i can? i can't believe that i forgot to mention it in my wanted plants list, it will be good for me to have it too, and next time when i will buy it i will make sure i put them in a sealed jars or bottles rather than leave them in a plastic/nylon transparent bags.

Any details or information will help me, i keep researching ere and there, reading your posts, asking you, and keep reading, everything can be helpful for me, and i hope i can have a successful garden or plants, i am sure i will have failure which normal, but i won't give up, if it worked with some others then it must work for me too considering if same climate and environment.

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applestar
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

If the package of cowpeas are dried peas, then I would suggest freezing them after placing in an airtight container or bag. A week to 10 days?

...I need someone else to confirm this will work to kill the bugs without harming what may be tropical species of cowpeas. (I would think so since seed banks freeze the stored seeds of all kinds.)
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imafan26
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

Freezing will kill bugs, not necessarily all of the eggs. It depends. But washing the rice or beans takes care of that problem.
I don't know if the beans can be kept for seeds. If it was old enough for the bugs to hatch the beans were probably old to start with and if they were drilled by the bugs the germs may be damaged. But you can try. Bean seeds are good for about 10 years if properly stored.

You can plant corn in large pots but you still have to consider spacing. If your pots are small, corn will not grow very big. There are dwarf varieties of corn, but they still need a sizeable pot. If you plant corn too close then the pollen will not have room to reach the silks. You might have to bag the tassels and hand polinate if that is the case. In summer, only a couple of things will grow in the heat providing you have enough water corn, squash, beans, and cucumbers. None of the greens will do well unless they are grown in the shade and watered several times a day just to keep them cooled off.

In summer, I plant corn in my small garden. It takes up half the space. I let the butternut squash sprawl under them. I plant sunflowers on the periphery. I don't care for beans and I grow Asian long beans which can handle more heat than string beans and has fewer pests. You can plant bush beans which would not need a trellis. Pole beans will need a trellis or you can plant them after the corn has tasseled so you can use the corn stalks as a trellis. I would plant most of the garden with corn in summer. It is something I usually don't waste anything of and I grow it at a time when other things don't really like to grow anyway. Smaller things I can grow in pots because I have to move them to another part of the yard so I can control how much sun they get. Most of them will move to the front yard to get morning sun and afternoon shade or they will be grown under the citrus trees which I prune to open up the middle. That is how I handle growing in the heat.

I plant tomatoes and eggplant in large pots 20 inch pots. The tomatoes are in cages. Self watering pots save water and cut down on BER. I only grow heat tolerant tomatoes or cherries in summer. They produce the best when it gets very hot. Eggplant does not mind the heat but I only need one or two plants since they are so prolific and they spread so take up less space in pots. Hot peppers don't mind the heat they have to be at least 70 degrees F just to germinate nicely and they produce prolifically. Bell peppers will stop producing in extreme heat but are good up until you get close to 90 degrees F. Most of the Mediterranean herbs with gray leaves don't mind the heat. Herbs are expensive to buy and add a lot of flavor to food so they are the best deal in a hot climate. Sage, thyme, rosemary, oregano, lavender do well even in hot dry climates. Basil, shiso, fenugreek, cumin, borage, and some of the other herbs like cilantro need more water and can be grown when it is cooler. Basil does o.k. in the heat, it just needs more water and bolts quickly.

I have an overhead trellis and a fence where I let the gourds and chayote grow. Those vines are over 50 ft long and they are better if the fruit are off the ground. I only grow sugar baby watermelon. I can't eat a whole large watermelon so the 11 lb sugar baby is a better size and the vines are only 6 ft. Still, it yields poorly 1-3 melons max per vine, usually 1.

During the hottest months, I only harvest. Planting is futile when it is 99 degrees F outside. Most plants don't like that. After I harvest. I add more compost and I solarize the soil. It amends the soil for the next time and solarization kills nematodes in the top 4-6 inches and keeps the weeds down. It also would require a lot of water to try to keep anything going in the middle of summer and we pay very high rates for water that doesn't even end up in the sewer.
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applestar
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

Oh yeah. Good beans and peas will sink; bad bug eaten ones with hollow insides and tunnels will float.

You do have to consider whether the peas/beans were heat dried, in which case they won't be viable to germinate.
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ButterflyLady29
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

The pottery pots will dry out quickly in the sun and heat. If you set them in trays that hold water they would work well for your citrus. I've never done apples in pots but I have seen pictures of them. I think it would be nice to have big potted trees on each side of your doorway.

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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

Actually you have a large stone patio. If you put a shade over it, it would be more pleasant to be outside in the sun. Putting pots on that reflective surface will magnify the heat.
Happy gardening in Hawaii. Gardens are where people grow.

TareqPhoto
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

For now, the weather is nice, and i think it will stay nice for another 4 months then slowly it will get warmer, and it will start hot maybe in late May, so there is almost nearly 5 months to worry about heat, so does that means most of my plants won't grow within those 5 months? i did read about some plants that grow and give fruits within 3-5 months, and later i can worry about heat when i will come/start, i will buy some kind of covering sheet or clothes to prevent that much heat, but the problem is not with heat itself, the problem is in the humidity, i stand in the shade but still sweat and feel so hot during summer, even sweaty inside the house if i didn't turn on the A/C, means there is more than heat itself even in shades.

I see most of my plants grown already, and the new planted cilantro in a container grown germinated already, but, there are few plants didn't, Parsley never germinated in different pots i plants, not even one. Onions in a container didn't germinate yet, or maybe it germinates but didn't show out of soil or sprouted, will leave it for little more time and check later, at least i planted one or 2 seeds of another variety of onion in a pot and it germinated and keep growing. Also i planted 5 germinates watermelon seeds in pots each individually, but they never came out of the soil yet, i thought once they are germinates then it will sprout i no time, but sounds something off killed them or stopped them not sure what. Also i planted citrus yellow lemon germinated seeds in smaller pots, 4 almost sprouted then i transplanted 3 of them to a bit bigger pot, but sounds they never grow enough at all, is it known for very very slow growing or it is gone?

And last but not least, i planted cluster beans one seed in a pot and also a cucumber in another pot, both were germinated seeds, and they grew like a hell, but, cucumber seedling died in no time after i saw 2 or 3 big leaves, either wrong watering or the pot was small for it to grow faster, and the beans seedling is died too maybe because the pot wasn't big so it didn't grow better, or it could be that watering it, the person who water my garden and plants just water direct on plants, maybe strong water coming out of the pipe, i feel all small plants couldn't handle that water pressure maybe, so i asked him to water my seedling and small plants gently and with plants watering jar, and i asked him if he can try hard to water on the soil not on the plant, so i hope this will prevent some problems with the plants.

Sounds i will try watermelon in the future in the ground rather than a pot, or, buying that big deep containers which are wide enough and plant 1 or 2 seeds at most and watch, and same with beans and basil, and i will take photos of my cowpeas in that pack and post here to show you, i was also thinking about washing it then store it in a sealed jars/bottles then in the fridge instead of freezer, if washing will eliminate the eggs then the seeds will stay clean and in fridge locked or sealed it won't be invaded by anything then, but not sure if the seeds didn't affect from inside too, the only way is to wash it and store it again better way and save in a fridge and take one seed in about 5 days or 1 week and try to plant it, if it works great, if not then i try with 2 more seeds at once each individually, if also didn't work then i have an option to test 5 seeds randomly from that stored as last test or just dump it all and buy new and store it better carefully from beginning.

Sorry i didn't post a drawing i made which has more details to my garden, but that draw is very complicated because it is full of lines and words and numbers, hope you can read clear and get a better idea about my garden and my plan, with the photos of my garden you can understand it better i hope, just later i will post that drawing by my hand.

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rainbowgardener
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

Re:
" Parsley never germinated in different pots i plants, not even one. Onions in a container didn't germinate yet, or maybe it germinates but didn't show out of soil or sprouted, will leave it for little more time and check later, at least i planted one or 2 seeds of another variety of onion in a pot and it germinated and keep growing. Also i planted 5 germinates watermelon seeds in pots each individually, but they never came out of the soil yet, i thought once they are germinates then it will sprout i no time, but sounds something off killed them or stopped them not sure what. Also i planted citrus yellow lemon germinated seeds in smaller pots, 4 almost sprouted then i transplanted 3 of them to a bit bigger pot, but sounds they never grow enough at all, is it known for very very slow growing or it is gone?

And last but not least, i planted cluster beans one seed in a pot and also a cucumber in another pot, both were germinated seeds, and they grew like a hell, but, cucumber seedling died in no time after i saw 2 or 3 big leaves, either wrong watering or the pot was small for it to grow faster, and the beans seedling is died too maybe because the pot wasn't big so it didn't grow better, or it could be that watering it, the person who water my garden and plants just water direct on plants, maybe strong water coming out of the pipe,"

We are trying to help you learn, Tareq, but it is hard because you put so much in one post and there are so many possibilities. I think we could help more if you would put one or two questions in a post WITH PICTURES, so we could see what the pot looks like (always helps to put something in the picture to show the size scale) and what the plant looks like.

Parsley seed takes anywhere from 10 days to nearly a month to germinate. All that time it needs to be kept warm (anywhere from 75-85 deg F, about 24 - 30 deg C) and damp but not wet. All small seed like parsley should not be buried, but just sprinkled on the soil, pressed down lightly to be in good contact with the soil, and then a very light, thin layer of soil just scattered loosely over the top.

And the potting mix you use makes a big difference. I think there was an issue about that when you started. Can you remind us what you are using now as growing medium to start your seeds in?

There is the answer to one of the six questions in that section I quoted. (Parsley, onions, watermelon, lemons, beans, cucumber). I will try to work on some more later, if no one else does.

The thing is each type of seeds has its own set of conditions it needs - temperature, light, moisture, etc. To be really successful, you have to approximate that set of conditions as closely as you can.
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rainbowgardener
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

2. Onions. Here anyway, onions are not usually grown from seed, they are grown from sets or starts -- small, immature onion bulbs.

You need to have the right variety of onion for your climate. Here's something about the different varieties: https://bonnieplants.com/library/which- ... t-for-you/

Onion seed germinates best between 60 deg F and 75. (15.5 deg C to 24.) In these conditions, they should sprout in 7-10 days. But you have to watch closely. When they first sprout they are difficult to spot, looking like tiny, very thin bits of grass. All these seedlings need plenty of light once sprouted, but the onion seeds once sprouted benefit from some cooler temperatures. Once the sprouts are say 10 cm tall, they should be transplanted in to their own little pots, and later into the ground. They like acidic soil, pH down around 6. Onion roots are shallow, so they need frequent watering.

Onions are very slow from seed. In my climate, I start onion seed indoors under lights in January. Plant them out as soon as the ground can be worked in March or so, and the onions should be ready to harvest by end of summer, Aug or Sept. Again, your soil/ climate/ conditions are so different, you would be best off talking to someone local about varieties to grow, when to plant, etc.
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TareqPhoto
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

Ok, i am sorry for putting too many questions, i should put one by one, but i didn't want to start to many threads for each plant, i know you want to help, and you are doing great, even if you didn't answer completely i appreciate it, also it doesn't need to be a page long answer for each question, go like as following:

1. Onion, is...... [2 lines]
2. Parsley,... [1 line answer if possible
3. Corn [3-4 lines answer]
..........

I can read the headlines, i talked about the soil, and i think i started a thread about fertilizer somewhere but i didn't get any answer there, and the soil isn't bad because if many seeds germinated and growing it means the soil is good enough, it could be the seeds aren't good, or as you said the temp, so this is clear enough for me, what did germinate and grow i won't worry about it at all, and the one that didn't germinated i will read more about it and i will try to offer the best environment for germination and then i will see if it will work or fail, then i will have another discussion about it.

I feel that i am so excited about plants so i try to plant many variety plants, i try to get the advantage of our weather, if you avoid the frost or winter then i also try to avoid the summer, the best weather to us is between November up to April, i planted some 2 months ago or last month, they are growing, and our weather is not staying cold or cloudy or raining for many days, we are human need that cloudy or rainy weather sometimes, so good for plants sometimes too, at least if there is no sun but there is water, and water from rain is always clean or better than our water which could be salty, today we had little rainy little windy and so cloudy weather and the tomatoes is like suddenly grown happy under that weather, and the corn just sprouted 2-3 days ago and they are about nearly 2 inches, i feel our cloudy nice cold weather is good sometimes for growing, maybe not good for germinating, so i got that advantage few days/weeks ago when the sun is shiny and not very hot, good enough warmth, but now with cloudy the plant is growing fine, tomorrow or after tomorrow it will be sunny again, aren't the tropical climate is in this way, warmth/humid and water from rain?

I took photos most of my pots and containers that i wanted to show here 2 days ago, now i don't know if i should post those or take newer photos tomorrow and show those instead? from today to 2 days later plants are growing, what will happen later to them is not in my hand, i give them care of warmth or shade and water and whatever it needs, i still have long time to worry about my garden and plants, i just started 3 months ago, i thought i will never see one seed germinates, or it may germinate inside the soil but never show up/out of soil, but i was wrong, most seeds are showing me hope, this is a good sign for me so when my garden will be ready i won't worry about my seeds, then i have 2 options, either i start with new seeds that i saw the proof of germinating or just transplant what is grown already? Which will grow faster or fine, the transplanted seedlings or a newly planted seeds?

ButterflyLady29
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

You have someone else watering your seedlings and planted pots and you don't know how they are doing it? That may be the problem. Some seeds require light in order to sprout. If hard watering covers the seed with too much soil it won't sprout. Hard watering after the seeds germinate will kill the young plants.

Which grows faster, transplants or seeds in the ground? That answer really depends on the plant. Tomatoes and peppers grow just fine from transplants but cucumbers and watermelon are set back by transplanting. And with any seedling/young plant, if the pot is too small and the roots run out of room it sets them back so they won't grow as quickly.

TareqPhoto
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Re: Help to start gardening and planting

ButterflyLady29 wrote:You have someone else watering your seedlings and planted pots and you don't know how they are doing it? That may be the problem. Some seeds require light in order to sprout. If hard watering covers the seed with too much soil it won't sprout. Hard watering after the seeds germinate will kill the young plants.

Which grows faster, transplants or seeds in the ground? That answer really depends on the plant. Tomatoes and peppers grow just fine from transplants but cucumbers and watermelon are set back by transplanting. And with any seedling/young plant, if the pot is too small and the roots run out of room it sets them back so they won't grow as quickly.
I asked him not to water my seedlings or pots/containers anymore, if he will do then by that garden plastic watering can i bought or even smaller spray cans, in all cases i asked him to water on the soil directly rather than on the plant/seedling itself, hope this will prevent most problems i may face later.

About which growing faster is because if i will make my garden ready then which is better for me, plant new seeds to start over again, or just transplant what are grown already? the garden will be big room and deep for each plant, there are trees so it means deep enough, for that i asked which will grow faster, the new seeds i will plant or the transplanted seedlings as i feel they won't grow much further in pots or containers, and wanting them to continue growing in better beds, so that i was thinking about transplanting them, and not sure at what level/point the transplanting is fine or it may damage the plant.

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